Short track racing's identity crisis

[AndyMarquisLive]

Something that is really beginning to grind my gears about short track racing is how many tracks have so many different classes of the same cars. And how now, the support classes run bodies identical to the Late Model class and there is no visible difference to the fans in the stands.

Let's look at Bowman Gray for instance. They have a Sportsman (Limited Late Model) and a Street Stock class. But now, the Street Stocks run Late Model bodies and I've seen some of those Street Stocks run Late Model races elsewhere and win races. So, the Street Stock division at Bowman Gray is now exactly the same as the Sportsman division.

Southern National Motorsports Park has Late Model Stock and Charger. The Charger division now runs tube chassis and Late Model bodies, along with Late Model engines. The Late Model class gets 12 cars and the Charger class gets eight cars -- but six of those eight cars are, for all intents and purposes, Late Models.

Then, I saw this picture of a Mini Stock that races at Motor Mile Speedway.

So now, the Mini Stock class runs Late Model bodies too and the only discernible differences between Late Models and Mini Stocks are the tire sizes and the motors.

Plus, Langley Speedway has a Pro-6 division that runs Late Model bodies.

So, let's summarize what divisions have cars that are almost exactly the same:
Late Model Stock Car, Limited Late Model/Sportsman, Charger and Street Stock.

Then, you have the following classes that aren't Late Models but run Late Model bodies:
Mini Stock (four cylinder), Pro-6.

But wait, there's more.

Some tracks have two and even three classes of Street Stocks. So, the identity crisis gets even more profound.

For all intents and purposes, almost all these cars are the exact same now. But they run different classes where there are small differences. Limiteds, for instance, run smaller carbs. Street Stocks might put a restrictor plate on a Late Model engine. Chargers, there's a carb rule and a tire rule and some other small, minor, insignificant changes.

So, when someone runs Late Models and runs in the back, they can step down to a lower class with the same exact car and start winning races. Which ends up resulting in the fans showing up and seeing three or four classes of Late Models racing, all with seven or eight cars, and get completely turned off to it.

And the tracks can't really step in and intervene because car counts are so low, they're afraid that, if they do something about it, they'll run cars off.

Short track racing has an identity crisis here.

 

[Hotrod]

I agree with all of that.
My take is they created more classes to give drivers plenty of options for their budgets.
Down here at our local dirt bullring, Dixie Speedway, the 2 close classes are
Crate Late and Steelhead Late . Then it goes up to Super Late. So crate and steelhead
differ ,I am guessing 100 to 200 hp. They do look similar.

What gets me are the same numbers in the same class differentiated only by a letter.
That seems to be widely more accepted.

 

[StandOnIt]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but your just noticing that? I have been listening for years posters describe who won in what and when I looked up what class they were talking about the picture in my head and the way they used to look like was usually wrong.

 

[clarkfn2284]

It is interesting that you bring this up. A lot of tracks have this issue. I understand wanting the fans to feel like they are seeing something special and the cars looking sharp with the LM bodies does look good, but we have to have divisions where the cars look completely different. Out here we have a track that has a Jr LM division where 10-14 year olds run LM's with rev limiters and weight differences. Back in the early 00's I started to see a Pro Stock division start to go to the Late Model body type and pretty soon they looked just like a LM. For the casual fan they are not going to know the difference in most cases unless they are really listening to the track PA guy. I don't think it hurts the crowd aspect because if you are going to local weekly racing, you are usually going because you frequent the sport or the track. The casual fan is not going to know nor care. However, some of the money put into the programs for a super stock or street stock division is ridiculous. It does kill car count without a doubt. Ultimately, what I have found is that the drivers need to take the bull by the horns and kind of take ownership of each other. We have a local dirt track that was going under and the lease was bought by a guy who owned a car 2 years ago. They have weekly shows of Hobbies, Mods, Sport Mods and Mini Stocks. There are shows here and there with midgets, mini lates etc., but the gist is the same core group and they have a maximum 18 cars in the main rule which creates intrigue because they draw 25 cars in each mod series and 20 hobbys as well weekly. So there are B Mains every week. They sprinkle in the occasional big payday and touring series and they have a great weekly show and are making money. Point is that they have a promoter who listens to his drivers and his fans. I remember a talk I had with him at the end of last season about he track. I was just letting him know that we appreciated the effort to get the place back up and running and he asked and listened to me intently in regards to my opinion of the place and what I would like to see this season. That's all that it takes.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

Not trying to be a smart ass, but your just noticing that? I have been listening for years posters describe who won in what and when I looked up what class they were talking about the picture in my head and the way they used to look like was usually wrong.

It's kind of been a problem, but even moreso now when car counts are dropping so much and tracks have so many divisions, someone can cherry pick divisions. One night, when talking to a promoter on the phone, I called the Charger class that several tracks run a "Participation Trophy Division". A driver gets a Late Model Stock Car, spends $40,000 on their car, goes out, runs in fifth and decides to drop down the following week and dominate in a Charger car or a Street Stock. Some of the Street Stocks that run at the North Carolina and Virginia short tracks have spent a lot of time at Jay Hedgecock's shop.

Another thing that grinds my gears, talking about cars looking alike, is how many drivers run plain, flat, black cars now. And most of them either have plain white numbers or black numbers with some kind of outline. So, if you're watching from the stands, you can't really tell the cars apart until they come around the frontstretch and you can see their number. And when they're black numbers on black cars at night, that really creates problems. Multiple track owners have bitched about it to me, but they refuse to do anything.

 

[VaDirt]

Dirt late models have the same problem. Limited late models, crate late models, super late models. You can't tell the difference at walking through the pits.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

A driver sent me a picture of their new paint scheme today. Black car with white numbers and a little bit of red on the bottom of the car. It's "badass".

Just about every Late Model Stock Car race I go to, that's most of the cars. Can't tell them apart at all at night. Someone had videoed a race at Hickory and I couldn't tell the cars apart because they all had the exact same paint scheme (plain black car with white numbers or plain black car with black numbers).

I don't think drivers care at all about the fans in short track racing anymore. Which is very sad.

 

[gnomesayin]

Dirt late models have the same problem. Limited late models, crate late models, super late models. You can't tell the difference at walking through the pits.

Yeah, I'm a dirt guy, and I see the same thing happening. My preference for a weekly short track racing program has always been three distinct classes. Do three classes and do it well. Inevitably when tracks expand to five, six, seven classes to try to fill every niche, you end up with a couple well supported classes and others with only a few cars in the pits that can't put on a good show.

What happened is that full blown late models became way too expensive for the vast majority of weekly racers. Then the same thing happened with modifieds. One track I attend regularly runs super late models, "super sport" late models, and "sportsman" late models. The bodies are all very similar to the casual fan. Speeds aren't much different between the bottom two.

Another track I attend used to have a great modified class. Today they have a decent modified class, a bigger and arguably better B modified class, and an entry level sport modified class with drivers who would have driven street stocks before this class existed. I understand why these limited versions of the marquee classes have proliferated, but I don't happen to enjoy the repetitiveness that much. I'd rather have more distinct classes.

 

[LewTheShoe]

Yeah, I'm a dirt guy, and I see the same thing happening. My preference for a weekly short track racing program has always been three distinct classes. Do three classes and do it well. Inevitably when tracks expand to five, six, seven classes to try to fill every niche, you end up with a couple well supported classes and others with only a few cars in the pits that can't put on a good show.

This is an interesting discussion. I know nothing about local paved tracks or what they do. But do y'all think it is true that a lot of local tracks have to live off the back gate more than the front gate, especially the further down the food chain they are? Not talking about Knoxville or Williams Grove or places like that, but I've always heard that promoters cater to the back gate because they have to. Of course it gets into a question of, Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

This is an interesting discussion. I know nothing about local paved tracks or what they do. But do y'all think it is true that a lot of local tracks have to live off the back gate more than the front gate, especially the further down the food chain they are? Not talking about Knoxville or Williams Grove or places like that, but I've always heard that promoters cater to the back gate because they have to. Of course it gets into a question of, Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

There aren't many promoters left in short track racing. Just owners and general managers. So many (most) rely on the back gate instead of trying to get fans through the front gate. Once tracks got in the tire selling business, that's when this mindset set in.

Asphalt racing needs to reign in the practice. Their short term profit on the back gate is causing long term damage.

 

[Speedbowl14]

Those are pictures of an SK Light, an SK, and a full-modified. Unless you've been around awhile you can't tell them apart till you hear them on the track.

 

[Mispeedway15]

I didn't know there was short track racing on asphalt

 

[VaDirt]

And don't even get me started on crate late model rules.

 

[clarkfn2284]

This is an interesting discussion. I know nothing about local paved tracks or what they do. But do y'all think it is true that a lot of local tracks have to live off the back gate more than the front gate, especially the further down the food chain they are? Not talking about Knoxville or Williams Grove or places like that, but I've always heard that promoters cater to the back gate because they have to. Of course it gets into a question of, Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

I have a fiend who was looking to obtain the lease to a defunct dirt track and he was talking to a promoter who ran it back in the day and now runs an asphalt track and he was told that you have to have full control over the money that comes in from the food. He said that a ton of the money made at the racetrack comes from the concessions both in the stands and in the pits.

 

[AndyMarquisLive]

I have a fiend who was looking to obtain the lease to a defunct dirt track and he was talking to a promoter who ran it back in the day and now runs an asphalt track and he was told that you have to have full control over the money that comes in from the food. He said that a ton of the money made at the racetrack comes from the concessions both in the stands and in the pits.

A lot of tracks lease their concessions out and only handle beer sales. I've actually seen that create situations though where the tracks will try to drag out the show so they can sell more beer. I personally can't stand being at the track that long, especially when I get there early for practices and stuff.

 

[MRM]

Dirt late models have the same problem. Limited late models, crate late models, super late models. You can't tell the difference at walking through the pits.

And around here, we have sportsman for a grand total of 4 classes that are allow late model chassis and bodies.

 

[clarkfn2284]

I have a fiend who was looking to obtain the lease to a defunct dirt track and he was talking to a promoter who ran it back in the day and now runs an asphalt track and he was told that you have to have full control over the money that comes in from the food. He said that a ton of the money made at the racetrack comes from the concessions both in the stands and in the pits.

When I was going with my Dad we would show up as things opened, but now that I am taking my 5 year old I show up usually as cars hit the track. So if wheel pack or hot laps are at 5 and the show starts at 6, I will usually just show up at 5-530. We also live in a time where the track still has plenty of seats available if you show up at race time. When I was going with my Dad we would show up at 3 when gates opened to the stands and we would head up to get our usual spot at the top of the grandstands.

 

[clarkfn2284]

One other thing that I have seen is that promoters are really unwilling to work together. When my friend was looking into securing the lease of the dirt track in Chowchilla, CA I told him to go north to Merced Speedway (about 15 minutes away) and talk with the promoter there as he had just taken over at the track and had some success. When he told the promoter he was looking o secure the lease the guy flipped out about him stealing dates, fans, car count etc. It's a little ridiculous that these guys are unwilling to work together for the sport. I just don't get it. Promoter A does not run the same classes every week. On those off weeks Promoter B would like to run those classes. Then together, Promoter A and B put together a couple of high paying 2 day shows that draw the best in the are in certain classes and tons of fans. That equals money and butts in the stands. It really isn't that hard.

 

[VaDirt]

And around here, we have sportsman for a grand total of 4 classes that are allow late model chassis and bodies.

Yeah, that bugs me too. Our sportsman divisions here are the same way. Didn't used to be, they used to be distinct, many of them what looked like old asphalt late models. But now a lot of them have late model bodies. At least at VMS, rear is closed off, but a lot of places they aren't.