Should Bowyer be stripped of the win?

dpkimmel2001

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If the penalty is upheld after the appeals process, should Bowyer be stripped of the win? If the car is illegal, why should the win stand? What do you think?

From The Frontstretch.....

NASCAR says that they allow a driver who won in an illegal car to keep the victory because they want fans at the track to know definitively who won before they go home. That’s kind of an insult to race fans’ intelligence, in my opinion. I think most fans would rather see a legal car win, even if that means an altered result later — certainly, race fans are intelligent enough to understand why it happened, even if they wouldn’t be happy they witnessed it. If I were in the stands, I certainly wouldn’t feel cheated if I paid to see a race and the winner was changed a few days later – as long as the reason was made clear. But from a fan’s perspective, I would feel cheated every time the win goes to a driver in an illegal car.

The sanctioning body has said that there is no precedent for stripping a win, but that’s a falsehood, as any old-timer will tell you. In the very first sanctioned race in what is now the Cup Series, the first car to cross the finish line was driven by Glenn Dunnaway. But Dunnaway’s car failed inspection because the rear springs had been altered outside NASCAR’s rules, so Big Bill France did what he felt was the only thing to do – he gave the race win with its points and purse to Jim Roper, driver of the first legal car to take the checkered flag. Dunnaway’s car owner sued, and a judge threw his case out. NASCAR’s rule was law, a strong precedent that initially held up in almost any circumstance.


Full article here.
 
as much as i'd hate to see it i think he should be stripped of the win and relegated to last place in the race. intentional or not the car was illegal. taking away the win, and moving the rest of the field up, would send a strong statement to team owners that pushing the limit on car tolerances will result in a hefty penalty if they go too far. it's just wrong to allow an illegal car to keep the win imo. same thing goes for cars found illegal that didn't win the race. put them at the back of the field.
 
What's this? A new penalty ? Since when does Nascar take away wins for a 1/16th infraction ? If they are going to start taking away wins,the list may get very long.
 
Essentailly he has already been stripped of the win with the 150pt deduction.
 
Taking 150 points away is virtually the same as taking the win away.
 
NASCAR has taken away wins. See the first post in this thread. As far as the points being taken away as being the same thing..... Did he return the trophy? How about that first place check?
 
I don't think they should take the win away. I do think it would be a good thing if they did that, starting next year. Take the win(hurts his stats), take the trophy(hurts his pride), take the money(hurts the owner) and then give them last place finish and money and points that last place gets.
But don't take it away now. How many times has JJ won and failed inspection and kept win. Carl has failed and kept win and so has numerous others.
 
NASCAR took away a win as recently as 2008. They took the win away from Peyton Sellers at Greenville Pickens and gave it to Austin Dillon in the K&N Pro Series East. I think they announced that they took the win away the following Tuesday.
 
NASCAR took away a win as recently as 2008. They took the win away from Peyton Sellers at Greenville Pickens and gave it to Austin Dillon in the K&N Pro Series East. I think they announced that they took the win away the following Tuesday.

But when was the last time they took a win from a cup driver?
 
Wins

They never took a win away from Richard Petty.................he would'nt have but about 18 wins if you took away the illeagle ones.
 
NASCAR destroys what little credibility they have by letting cheaters keep their race wins. In no other sport would this be tolerated.
 
Regan Smith Talladega,yes totally different reason but still

Well since nascar never announced him as the winner (although I do agree they cheated him out of a win), let me rephrase my question. When was the last time nascar let a cup driver go to victory lane and then say, oh wait you didn't win, a few days later?
 
To answer the original question, Yes, he should be stripped of the win, and it should happen anytime the winners car is found "defective. As a matter of fact the next would-be winner should undergo the same scrutiny before he is awarded the win, and so on down the line until they find the 1st legal car in the line-up.
And that 1st legal car should get the full 190 points, to go with the trophy, and winnings.
MoMike
 
To answer the original question, Yes, he should be stripped of the win, and it should happen anytime the winners car is found "defective. As a matter of fact the next would-be winner should undergo the same scrutiny before he is awarded the win, and so on down the line until they find the 1st legal car in the line-up.
And that 1st legal car should get the full 190 points, to go with the trophy, and winnings.
MoMike

In a perfect world, yes I'd agree with that. The only problem I see is that each and every car would have to be impounded for that to happen. I don't understand how that could possibly be accomplished. I can't see a convoy of NASCAR haulers transporting back the entire field of cars to the NASCAR R&D faclity. I don't really understand why there's a problem with the current system other than someone got caught with an illegal car. This isn't the first time and it's not going to be the last time.

I think I should have posted this thread as.....

Are you comfortable knowing that the winning driver gets to keep the win if his car is found to be illegal after a race?

I don't care about the history of rules infractions and what the precedence is. I think it's more about what's right. From what I see in this thread, we sure don't all agree.
 
When was the last time nascar let a cup driver go to victory lane and then say, oh wait you didn't win, a few days later?

The last time NASCAR [Cup Series] disqualified a winner for failing a post-race inspection was in 1955, according to an official in NASCAR's statistical services. Fireball Roberts won the Daytona Beach race, but had the win taken away for an engine modification. NASCAR gave Tim Flock the win. Since then, drivers have kept wins regardless of the infractions.
 
In Nashville early 80s NASCAR took a win from Neal Bonnett and gave it to Darrell Waltrip the day after the race due to a scoreing error....................they were team mates....................car owner Jr Johnson for both Waltrip and Bonnett protested and got Darrell Waltrip the win.
 
I think when it's blatant cheating, the win should be taken away. That doesn't happen that many times. I'm not sure if this is blatant or not given NASCAR talked to RCR about the Richmond car before NHMS and they still had issues.
 
Are you comfortable knowing that the winning driver gets to keep the win if his car is found to be illegal after a race?

I don't care about the history of rules infractions and what the precedence is. I think it's more about what's right. From what I see in this thread, we sure don't all agree.

I think we do agree. I don't like it when the winner fails inspection. I didn't like it when Jimmie done or Carl or Clint or any others. I would like to see them start taking the wins away. But start it with a new season when all drivers know it will happen. I would love to see them start doing that next season.
 
something being over looked is that every other car in the field is effected. by keeping the win clint (or whoever) denies additional points and prize money to the rest of the field, as well as another driver having a win in his stats. that's assuming the illegal car is sent to the back of the field in finishing order. those points and prize money could mean a lot to cars finishing in the bottom of the field. it could even effect whether you make/stay in the top 35 or have to qualify the car into the race.
 
If you cheat, take the win away. That's what they do in the NASCAR Whelen All-American Series. You cheat, your win is stripped and you lose your money.

Come on Andy we are at the elite tier of Nascar here:sarcasm:, I doubt you will ever see a win stripped at the Cup level because taking away 150pts is just as bad as taking away the win, plus his car chief and crew chief getting suspended.
 
Come on Andy we are at the elite tier of Nascar here:sarcasm:, I doubt you will ever see a win stripped at the Cup level because taking away 150pts is just as bad as taking away the win, plus his car chief and crew chief getting suspended.

Not really. Taking away the points hurt, yes (in the Chase). But taking away the win and everything that comes with it hurts more. Bowyer still have the glory, trophy and trip to Charlotte.
 
I think they should fine him so much money for cheating that he can never run a Cup race again, ala Carl Long!
 
Not really. Taking away the points hurt, yes (in the Chase). But taking away the win and everything that comes with it hurts more. Bowyer still have the glory, trophy and trip to Charlotte.

Big deal so he goes to Charlotte! He is pretty much out of the championship hunt this year and in the big picture scenario that is huge. Also in this sponsor driven sport it doesn't look good for them so that hurts also. Nascar set out to send a message to this team and they did big time.
 
Hell no, that would hurt the sport more than they think. Start taking away wins then all kinds of conspiracy theories will start flying, especially 1/16 of an inch penalties. No way something like that determined weather Bowyer won or not, I already think NASCAR is full of shiit half the time, they don't need to prove it any further by taking away wins too.
 
Really when was a win taken away from a NFL team for cheating?

This subject is getting nuts.You hit the nail on the head Blue. What bigger cheating could their be than too many men on the field ? That is the biggest form of cheating that I have ever heard of. What does the NFL do? 10 yds//move on.
 
Hell no, that would hurt the sport more than they think. Start taking away wins then all kinds of conspiracy theories will start flying, especially 1/16 of an inch penalties. No way something like that determined weather Bowyer won or not, I already think NASCAR is full of shiit half the time, they don't need to prove it any further by taking away wins too.

Wait a minute. The teams are allowed a fudge factor. When the team sat the body it was outside of tolerance.

This is exactly the same as speeding on pit road. If the speed limit is 45 MPH NASCAR allows 5 MPH over. If you get caught speeding you are 5+ MPH over the speed limit.

Just for the sake of argument I will say the body had to be 6" from a cross member. NASCAR allows 1" of fudge factor. Then this penalty means the 33 car was 1.006" over the limit.

I do agree that taking wins away is not the answer. The points penalty pretty much doomed Clint's chase chances.
 
If the pit road speed limit is 45mph and you are allowed to go 5 mph over, than any driver not going 49.999mph will lose the race. The trick is not to exceed 49.999mph , some drivers will exceed that speed this Sunday. They won't be called cheaters, but they will go to the back of the field.
 
Maybe if they would start busting these guys more they would tighten up a little bit. I know its a different series but i remember hearing about an asphalt race down in florida this year where the top 6 were busted for illegal tires. So they gave the win to the 7th place guy. Nascar could do something like that they could bust a whole bunch at once instead of just the guy who won. I thought NASCAR techs their top 5 every week.
 
WTF, would this be an issue five, ten years ago? Nascar is starting to act like the fed government. Rules upon more rules. One sixteenth you guys got to be kidding me.
 
Geoff Bodine won it in 1993, I think....Rudd spun Davey Allison in 1991 and won, only to have the victory pulled.
Thanks. That was why I had the "?" after the date. I remember it happening but was fuzzy on the year and too apathetic to look it up. As I recall Rudd dropped-kicked Davey in the final hairpin pretty blatantly.
 
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