Silly Season 2023

cheesepuffs

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Why is it such a bad thing to be brand loyal? Just because you don't agree with someone's "fandom" doesn't mean it's wrong.
Every corporation chases money --- that's how they remain in business. And I'm glad they do because their dividends keep me solvent. Teacher retirement is not the greatest.
Brand loyal to the point where you make yourself a shut-in for that brand and aren't even opening to trying to experience any alternatives for the sake of comparison, is not healthy. There's being loyal, and then there's being so fanatical that you can't see reality anymore.
 

Formerjackman

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What do you get from that manufacturer for your loyalty? This is a corporation controlled by board members that is ruthlessly chasing profit and should be competing for people's money.
What do I get from following s driver or a team? I'm not crazy enough to think Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson truly gave a damn that I was a fan. What does a Yankees fan get from it? It's just about picking a side and staying with it. I have always been drawn to the consistency of rooting for the same thing year after year, and in racing, the manufacturer was about the only thing that stays fairly consistent. When I started follwing NASCAR, it seems like drivers were changing teams every year. Also, I grew up in an era where people tended to be MUCH more loyal to car brands. My family on both sides were GM people. The only non-GM cars you would find was maybe an old beater car. When I think about my grandfather, one of my FIRST thoughts is that he ALWAYS owned Buicks.
 

cheesepuffs

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What do I get from following s driver or a team? I'm not crazy enough to think Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson truly gave a damn that I was. Fan. What does a Yankees fan get from it? It's just about picking a side and staying with it. I have always been drawn to the consistency of rooting for the same thing year after year, and in racing, the manufacturer was about the only thing that stays fairly consistent. When I started follwing NASCAR, it seems like drivers were changing teams every year. Also, I grew up in an era where people tended to be MUCH more loyal to car brands. My family on both sides were GM people. The only non-GM cars you would find was maybe an old beater car. When I think about my grandfather, one of my FIRST thoughts is that he ALWAYS owned Buicks.
Jeff Gordon isn't getting increased stock value or increasing his market share in anything when you watch the HMS cars today. It's not the same scenario.

The mentality of "I only drive GM" is one of the factors that nearly put them out of business back around 2008. Them banking on people blindly continuing to purchase their product without cross-shopping, no matter how crappy the product was. I don't get how that benefits anybody.
 

TexasRaceLady

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Brand loyal to the point where you make yourself a shut-in for that brand and aren't even opening to trying to experience any alternatives for the sake of comparison, is not healthy. There's being loyal, and then there's being so fanatical that you can't see reality anymore.
And that's their problem, no one else's. I can't condemn anyone because I have my own problems.
 

BobbyFord

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What do I get from following s driver or a team? I'm not crazy enough to think Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson truly gave a damn that I was a Fan. What does a Yankees fan get from it? It's just about picking a side and staying with it. I have always been drawn to the consistency of rooting for the same thing year after year, and in racing, the manufacturer was about the only thing that stays fairly consistent. When I started follwing NASCAR, it seems like drivers were changing teams every year. Also, I grew up in an era where people tended to be MUCH more loyal to car brands. My family on both sides were GM people. The only non-GM cars you would find was maybe an old beater car. When I think about my grandfather, one of my FIRST thoughts is that he ALWAYS owned Buicks.
Brand loyalty doesn’t have the same significance since, IMO, since the early 70s.
Cars nowadays are all about the same.
This is why I love classic cars.
 

Mr. Gregory

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My dad was a diehard Ford guy, much like Revman with his Toyotas. He only ever rooted for Ford drivers and loathed Dale Earnhardt and, to a lesser extent, Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. His one exception was Mark Martin after he left Roush for Ginn/DEI and then Hendrick.

I started out that way as a kid, obviously because of Dad, but I eventually came to realize that I was really more of an anybody but Earnhardt (and Gordon until later in his career) fan than a strictly Ford fan. I was drawn more to the drivers and my perceptions of their personalities than whatever decals they had on their cars. When I was going through my NASCAR hat phase, I remember telling Dad that I was gonna get a Jimmie Johnson hat. He was (playfully) disappointed. When I came home one day and saw the box with the hat in it in my room, he had written "don't do it, son!" on it. :XXROFL:

I wonder what Dad would have thought of me becoming a Dale Earnhardt, Jr. fan after he passed away. He didn't seem to have the same level of dislike for Jr. that he had for Sr., so I don't think he would have been that surprised, especially if I got to explain my reasoning to him. But I digress.

My point is, there's no right or wrong way to be a NASCAR fan. It's a subjective form of entertainment, and different people approach it differently and get different things out of it. We may not always understand others' approaches to it - for example, I'll never understand how there are some people who watch this stuff purely for the crashes - but regardless of how I may feel about it, that's their right.
 

cheesepuffs

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Brand loyalty doesn’t have the same significance since, IMO, since the early 70s.
Cars nowadays are all about the same.
This is why I love classic cars.
Cars nowadays are no more the same than they ever were. What's changed is that you don't pay attention to the details between them anymore.
 

TexasRaceLady

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My point is, there's no right or wrong way to be a NASCAR fan. It's a subjective form of entertainment, and different people approach it differently and get different things out of it. We may not always understand others' approaches to it - for example, I'll never understand how there are some people who watch this stuff purely for the crashes - but regardless of how I may feel about it, that's their right.
Amen.
 

Formerjackman

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Jeff Gordon isn't getting increased stock value or increasing his market share in anything when you watch the HMS cars today. It's not the same scenario.

The mentality of "I only drive GM" is one of the factors that nearly put them out of business back around 2008. Them banking on people blindly continuing to purchase their product without cross-shopping, no matter how crappy the product was. I don't get how that benefits anybody.


Well, all I can tell you is that with one minor exception, my GM cars have delivered more than enough satisfaction to keep me buying them. Our 2007 SUV has never spent a day at the dealer, and the only unscheduled repairs have been a bad brake hose and a dead battery. My 1999 truck is the toughest vehicle I have ever owned, even survived a wreck that should have totaled it.
 

cheesepuffs

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My dad was a diehard Ford guy, much like Revman with his Toyotas. He only ever rooted for Ford drivers and loathed Dale Earnhardt and, to a lesser extent, Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. His one exception was Mark Martin after he left Roush for Ginn/DEI and then Hendrick.

I started out that way as a kid, obviously because of Dad, but I eventually came to realize that I was really more of an anybody but Earnhardt (and Gordon until later in his career) fan than a strictly Ford fan. I was drawn more to the drivers and my perceptions of their personalities than whatever decals they had on their cars. When I was going through my NASCAR hat phase, I remember telling Dad that I was gonna get a Jimmie Johnson hat. He was (playfully) disappointed. When I came home one day and saw the box with the hat in it in my room, he had written "don't do it, son!" on it. :XXROFL:

I wonder what Dad would have thought of me becoming a Dale Earnhardt, Jr. fan after he passed away. He didn't seem to have the same level of dislike for Jr. that he had for Sr., so I don't think he would have been that surprised, especially if I got to explain my reasoning to him. But I digress.

My point is, there's no right or wrong way to be a NASCAR fan. It's a subjective form of entertainment, and different people approach it differently and get different things out of it. We may not always understand others' approaches to it - for example, I'll never understand how there are some people who watch this stuff purely for the crashes - but regardless of how I may feel about it, that's their right.
The thing is, the person that's the "loyal fan" in this equation has a tendency not to respect others. We've heard about the Camaro body change that was "unfair" for literally like two years. I don't care if somebody is a brand fanatic, but that doesn't give them the right to belittle others when it comes to their strong preferences either.
 

Blaze

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Why is it such a bad thing to be brand loyal? Just because you don't agree with someone's "fandom" doesn't mean it's wrong.
Every corporation chases money --- that's how they remain in business. And I'm glad they do because their dividends keep me solvent. Teacher retirement is not the greatest.
No one said it was wrong? Not a single person… stop putting words in peoples post.
 

Magicmiler

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I'm loyal to Ford for their trucks. I've had F150s for years, just because they're reliable and I've seen friends have problems with other brands. Mrs. Miler has Chevrolets for years because she likes them... Hell, I have A Chevy engine grill.
Screenshot_20220911-170430_Photos.jpg

Does anyone want to put a label on me because of our Manufaturer loyalty???
 

Mr. Gregory

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The thing is, the person that's the "loyal fan" in this equation has a tendency not to respect others. We've heard about the Camaro body change that was "unfair" for literally like two years. I don't care if somebody is a brand fanatic, but that doesn't give them the right to belittle others when it comes to their strong preferences either.
I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing because my dad was the same exact way. I'm pretty sure I remember a similar complaint from him when Chevy first brought out the Monte Carlo. Even if he didn't actually complain about that, he definitely used to think that NASCAR unfairly stacked the deck to benefit Chevy, and Ford had to move mountains to win races. :lol2:

I can't take that type of chatter seriously, man. I just see it as banter from a diehard fan of a manufacturer, not unlike the similar banter that often happens beteeen diehard fans of drivers, particularly whenever one driver makes a move that they feel comfortable with and ruins another driver's day. It's whatever. If somebody ever bothers me that much, I just don't talk to them. It's not worth it.
 

Pat

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I'm loyal to Ford for their trucks. I've had F150s for years, just because they're reliable and I've seen friends have problems with other brands. Mrs. Miler has Chevrolets for years because she likes them... Hell, I have A Chevy engine grill. View attachment 64959
Does anyone want to put a label on me because of our Manufaturer loyalty???
I love my F150 and I loved my Camry. However, all my drivers have been Chevy drivers. Go figure.
 

Revman

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Can't help but wonder what someone like Revman would do if Toyota pulled out of racing like Dodge did several years ago. I was a Dodge fan but didn't throw in the towel when they left.
I was a Toyota fan before they came to NASCAR, I will be one after. I was an IMSA fan before IndyCar and NASCAR. Wherever Toyota is, I will be.
 

Revman

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Rev, I thoroughly enjoy your rants and perspective, plus the laughs we all enjoy as part of this process! You are as dedicated a racing fan as there is on this site. I don’t pull for Toyotas, and won’t pull for KDB in any brand, but bravo to you and all who are fans of either or both.

Now go Ross Chastain…I’m proud to get any arrows shot toward me as a result.
Thank you very much. Very kind of you to post this.
 

Revman

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The thing is, the person that's the "loyal fan" in this equation has a tendency not to respect others. We've heard about the Camaro body change that was "unfair" for literally like two years. I don't care if somebody is a brand fanatic, but that doesn't give them the right to belittle others when it comes to their strong preferences either.
You have been on this all day. You have an apology in your in box. It is never my intent to come across as disrespectful. I have owned that my passion can get the best of me. We are done here. You are on ignore. Have at it.
 

Formerjackman

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I think it's a big win for RCR, and who knows, it might work out fine for Kyle, but if this was the WINNING offer, how bad were the losing offers? I believe I read the words "sponsorship to be determined" somewhere? One has to wonder about this third car. Buy a charter? Suck it up for a year and absorb any losses? Does Reddick stay with the 8 guys, or does Kyle get them? Do they try to build a brand new group around Kyle and worry about the 8 guys after next year? Does RCR plan to field three cars in 2024? Personally, I if I were Reddick, I would be dying to ask the question: "If you are prepared to spend all this money for Kyle, why weren't you prepared to lock me into a long term deal?
 

Conover

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If RCR is fielding three cars to accommodate Reddick finishing out his contract, I’d suspect KDB will get the best crew and equipment, with grandson a very close second. Tyler will be relegated to economy class while serving out his lame duck year. Will be interesting to see what happens.
OR…Reddick will recognize all this in advance and seek to get a buy out, so long as Hambone can find him a ride.
 

LewTheShoe

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Personally, if I were Reddick, I would be dying to ask the question: "If you are prepared to spend all this money for Kyle, why weren't you prepared to lock me into a long term deal?
Why do you assume that Childress wasn't prepared to do that? I recall reading that Reddick had a long-term offer from Childress in hand when he decided to accept the 23XI deal. I believe it was Pockrass that reported that, but frankly I'm not 100% sure.

Everyone knows that Childress was pissed off about the way the 23XI deal was handled... when it was announced and RCR getting just a few hours advance notice... but Richard has never said more than that. It's just @Revman blowing steam when he posts time after time that Richard is crying that he can't afford Reddick's price. Richard has never said that nor implied it.

I don't think we can reasonably assume there's a vast financial difference between Reddick's 23XI deal and what RCR would offer. No one has said that (except Revman, LOL) and no such evidence is on offer. Reddick has not explained his reasoning. Good grief, for all I know there might be truth to the rumors Reddick is uncomfortable with the MAGA-centric management atmosphere at RCR, or other non-financial factors. Or maybe he's forecasting which team will give him the greatest chance of contending for championships.

It's speculation, but I doubt there is an ocean of difference between what RCR will pay Kyle Busch and what they would be prepared to pay Tyler Reddick. Probably a slightly higher salary plus a slightly greater % of the purse money. I strongly suspect Kyle's income going forward will be more tilted toward incentives, and less toward guaranteed salary than in past years. And I'm guessing his truck team support will be more like what Thorsport and GMS receive, rather than the quasi-factory truck team of Toyota/TRD.

I think the real "ocean of difference" is between what Kyle will be paid next year versus what he made in prior years from Gibbs/TRD/Mars. Basically, the man has said as much.
 

Formerjackman

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I'm just going off what was being said, which may or may not have been correct, but why announce the option pick up if you are actively negotiating a long term deal and not let that be known? There again, my point of view is based on how HMS usually handles these things. My impression is that RCR exercised the option thinking it would give them time to put together a long term deal, and Reddick had option B in the bank and decided to take it. The level that RCR seems to have been caught off guard seems to me like they didn't even realize they were in a competition for Tyler's services. Of course this is all speculation, I just look at what we DO know and try to make some sense out of it.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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If it is 3 Cup cars next year RCR is running with Dillon, Reddick and Busch, I have to say that’s a pretty stellar team for 2023.
 

Revman

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Richard has never said that nor implied it.
bull****. Richard said in an interview that he didn't have the resources to match "that other offer." ....and Danielle Trotta whined about it on her show so she heard it too.
 

StandOnIt

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bull****. Richard said in an interview that he didn't have the resources to match "that other offer." ....and Danielle Trotta whined about it on her show so she heard it too.
I heard this from so in so and that from you know who. Maybe so. What is said and in print that I have read comes from an article.

“The biggest surprise was when he came to us less than one hour before the announcement. I don’t think it showed any respect for his race team or everyone who got him where he is,” Childress told Fox’ Bob Pockrass. “Less than one hour before the announcement? A lot of stuff swirls around an 18-month announcement.

“The biggest thing is you should come to me respectfully and say, ‘Hey, I’ve signed, I want to do something, how do you think we should make a joint announcement?’ None of that happened. I’m not upset he’s going wherever he’s going. But the way it was handled was very unprofessional.”

 

Jorge De Guzman

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I always thought RC had a problem with the way the 23XI signing was handled. Not with a lack of resources. And if it is indeed Kyle being signed to RCR, “the lack of resources” argument dies Tuesday morning.
 

Conover

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I always thought RC had a problem with the way the 23XI signing was handled. Not with a lack of resources. And if it is indeed Kyle being signed to RCR, “the lack of resources” argument dies Tuesday morning.
And where is the press, and the motor sports inner community, on the actions taken by Denny Hambone with respect to this signing? Where is the condemnation for the manner their signing was conducted, the announcement process, etc? Was Hambone’s “slip it in” introduction of his new driver during a video web stream just as bad as Reddick’s one hour notice to RC? Seems to me very unprofessional as well.

Nevertheless, the next phase is coming. We’ll see what that means for all parties.
 
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