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The Nature Boy

The Nature Boy

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aunty dive said:
I guess Rick wanted to tell lies to a different demographic.
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You're either being obtuse or a Hendrick fanboy. Neither is a good look.

Hendrick saw returns on his investment with Larson so he expanded to other ventures. There's no reason for him (and it goes against everything we've heard about Hendrick for 40 years) to continue an essentially full schedule for Larson, especially since he has diversified his portfolio. He can realize the returns on associating Larson with his dealerships while still putting other partners on the car.

Keep buying that PR spin. Mr. H thanks you.
 
aunty dive

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I’m presenting a point of view that opposes yours.

I am neither being obtuse nor am I a fanboy of Hendrick.

His online operation is the primary sponsor of Larson’s and Anderson’s cars because it has paid off and continues to do so. Do you really think he would publish performance figures (to a specific decimal point) attributable to sponsorship of the 5 in full view of employees of the operation that work with this stuff and those numbers every day?

None of this matters anyway... Bill Byron is going to win The Cup.
 
2 Sweet

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aunty dive said:
His online operation is the primary sponsor of Larson’s and Anderson’s cars because it has paid off and continues to do so.
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Yep. And the primary on several of the the KBM/Spire truck entries. And the full-time primary on the HMS #17 in Xfinity, which is also piloted by Byron, Bowman, and Cup's most popular driver. And some JRM late models. And an associate on Ken Schrader's dirt efforts. And so on.......
 
Formerjackman

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The Nature Boy said:
Exactly. Hendrick has a price point and he has to make Larson appealing enough to get to it. Like any business man, he'll BS the media in order to get them to print what he needs to sell his message. The guy is probably the most cunning owner in NASCAR history. Is Hendrick turning down offers? Probably. Would he prefer not to? You bet your ass.
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I AM a HMS fanboy, and I STILL am not buying a lot of the PR spin. I still contend that if an Ally or a NAPA level sponsor wanted to be on the 5, Hendrick Cars would be off that car in a heartbeat. If you don't believe that, then ask yourself why ALLY Isn't on the 5 instead of the 48, where they would get a LOT more exposure ( no offense Alex). I agree 100% that Rick has worked hard at making Kyle look more marketable then he probably really is, and at some point that will likely pay off, just not yet. As for Hendrick Cars being on other cars, I think the primary reason is that is just how Rick helps the people he chooses to help and he gets SOMETHING, no matter how small out of it in return, and turns the expenditure into a legitimate business expense. As for Anderson's Pro Stock sponsorship, Rick has partnered with drag racing teams before for technology transfer, and I can't say for sure, but this may also be at the root of that. Anyone else remember when Reher & Morrison cars carried HMS decals? R&M was doing cylinder head R&D for HMS.
 
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Formerjackman said:
I AM a HMS fanboy, and I STILL am not buying a lot of the PR spin. I still contend that if an Ally or a NAPA level sponsor wanted to be on the 5, Hendrick Cars would be off that car in a heartbeat. If you don't believe that, then ask yourself why ALLY Isn't on the 5 instead of the 48, where they would get a LOT more exposure ( no offense Alex). I agree 100% that Rick has worked hard at making Kyle look more marketable then he probably really is, and at some point that will likely pay off, just not yet. As for Hendrick Cars being on other cars, I think the primary reason is that is just how Rick helps the people he chooses to help and he gets SOMETHING, no matter how small out of it in return, and turns the expenditure into a legitimate business expense. As for Anderson's Pro Stock sponsorship, Rick has partnered with drag racing teams before for technology transfer, and I can't say for sure, but this may also be at the root of that. Anyone else remember when Reher & Morrison cars carried HMS decals? R&M was doing cylinder head R&D for HMS.
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Sure, but these two statements....

-"Hendrick has difficulty finding sponsorship for Larson"

-"Hendrick is turning down sponsors for Larson that don't meet his price point"

^ .....are not the same.
 
StandOnIt

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@Revman Ford and the yotas are getting body tweaks for next year as per Bob Pockrass above. Chevy isn't going for a re-do because of having to come up with a different body for 25.
 
The Nature Boy

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2 Sweet said:
Sure, but these two statements....

-"Hendrick has difficulty finding sponsorship for Larson"

-"Hendrick is turning down sponsors for Larson that don't meet his price point"

^ .....are not the same.
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The implicit assumption is "finding sponsorship" for HMS means adequate sponsorship. I'm sure there are a number of smaller businesses that wouldn't mind the PR blowback from sponsoring him because the exposure they would get would outweigh it. However, Hendrick is running a business. If you can buy a spot on the 2021 Cup Champion's car for 25% of what you can Bowman, Elliott, and Byron then Hendrick is going to be getting angry calls from phone calls from Ally, NAPA, and Axalta. Any team in the field could "find sponsorship" but the question of whether it fits the team's needs or are enough to sustain operations is another can of worms. Also, again, as a I mentioned before, Hendrick has a vested interest in making Larson look appealing. If word gets around that he's giving away sponsorship on the cheap, it undermines that position.

aunty dive said:
Do you really think he would publish performance figures (to a specific decimal point) attributable to sponsorship of the 5 in full view of employees of the operation that work with this stuff and those numbers every day?
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I'm not saying that Hendrick is lying, I'm saying that Hendrick is spinning those numbers in a way to justify an essentially full season sponsorship. Full season sponsorships are the exception these days, not the norm. Ask yourself why other companies have realized that you can get the same ROI with a much smaller schedule. You can still throw the driver's face on your website, packaging, and promotional materials, even if you're only sponsoring 8-12 races. Hendrick's PR spin is well...spin, because even a cursory look at the rest of the sport and Hendrick's past behavior shows that it's a load of BS.
 
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The Nature Boy said:
The implicit assumption is "finding sponsorship" for HMS means adequate sponsorship. I'm sure there are a number of smaller businesses that wouldn't mind the PR blowback from sponsoring him because the exposure they would get would outweigh it. However, Hendrick is running a business. If you can buy a spot on the 2021 Cup Champion's car for 25% of what you can Bowman, Elliott, and Byron then Hendrick is going to be getting angry calls from phone calls from Ally, NAPA, and Axalta. Any team in the field could "find sponsorship" but the question of whether it fits the team's needs or are enough to sustain operations is another can of worms. Also, again, as a I mentioned before, Hendrick has a vested interest in making Larson look appealing. If word gets around that he's giving away sponsorship on the cheap, it undermines that position.


I'm not saying that Hendrick is lying, I'm saying that Hendrick is spinning those numbers in a way to justify an essentially full season sponsorship. Full season sponsorships are the exception these days, not the norm. Ask yourself why other companies have realized that you can get the same ROI with a much smaller schedule. You can still throw the driver's face on your website, packaging, and promotional materials, even if you're only sponsoring 8-12 races. Hendrick's PR spin is well...spin, because even a cursory look at the rest of the sport and Hendrick's past behavior shows that it's a load of BS.
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You and I have already plowed this ground so there's no sense getting deep into it again, and I really think we agree for the most part. But for the folks who think the dealer is on the car because nobody else will touch Larson, or that Rick is paying out of pocket to fund the 5 car, or that he's lying about the exposure it gives his dealerships? Those folks are just flat out wrong. I can see why you call it "PR spin" but it's still a truthful statement.
 
Formerjackman

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2 Sweet said:
You and I have already plowed this ground so there's no sense getting deep into it again, and I really think we agree for the most part. But for the folks who think the dealer is on the car because nobody else will touch Larson, or that Rick is paying out of pocket to fund the 5 car, or that he's lying about the exposure it gives his dealerships? Those folks are just flat out wrong. I can see why you call it "PR spin" but it's still a truthful statement.
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I don't think anybody is saying that NOBODY will touch Larson, just nobody that is willing to match the value of the slot that Hendrick Cars fills on the car, and as was mentioned, that is determined as much by what other HMS cars are getting for similar exposure as it is the 5 car. As for the value Rick claims he gets from having Hendrick Cars on the car, value is in the eye of the beholder. Even if HE honestly believes it's worth it doesn't mean a non-partisan person would. The one question I would have is if this self sponsorship is such a great business model, why doesn't Roger Penske ever do it? Why didn't Bruton Smith ever use his car dealerships to sponsor a race? We are going to assume that Gene Haas's use of the tactic is for the same reason as Rick's Because there is no other more viable alternative.
 
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Formerjackman said:
As for the value Rick claims he gets from having Hendrick Cars on the car, value is in the eye of the beholder. Even if HE honestly believes it's worth it doesn't mean a non-partisan person would. The one question I would have is if this self sponsorship is such a great business model, why doesn't Roger Penske ever do it? Why didn't Bruton Smith ever use his car dealerships to sponsor a race? We are going to assume that Gene Haas's use of the tactic is for the same reason as Rick's Because there is no other more viable alternative.
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JD Stacy. Warner Hodgdon. Barney Visser.

Like you said, the value is in the eye of the beholder
 
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Jorge De Guzman said:
And before them K&K Insurance
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The K&K car was mostly in an era when cars had few major sponsors anyway. Since a big part of K&K's business was race tracks and drivers, it made sense for Nord to "self sponsor". Warner Hodgdon was pretty much just a sponsor when his own company was on a car, (Wood Brothers, Rahmoc). Once he bought into Junior Johnson & Associates, the cars carried only very small Hodgdon decals. JD Stacy was nothing but a crook and a flimflam man. One of his companies on race cars seems to never actually even existed. Visser was sort of an extremely rare exception, but even FRR was transitioning to outside sponsors as much as possible. In the modern era of motorsports, almost NOBODY has self sponsored for any length of time at the highest levels.
 
aunty dive

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HendrickCars.com will be the primary sponsor of Kyle Larson’s McLaren Cars / Hendrick Motorsports 2034 Indianapolis 500 entry.

That’s some deep pocket in Rick’s jeans.
 
Jorge De Guzman

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FLRacingFan said:
Yep. He’s not good enough to hem and haw on this each season. **** or get off the pot.
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Yea I could understand if it was Harvick doing this…but this dude? And SHR allowing it to happen. I don’t get it. I mean I do if the Bacon are trying to convince him to stick around longer
 
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Matty D. apparently decides not to return to Rackley next year but doesn't seem to have anything else lined up yet? Or does he and he just isn't saying? Seems like a strange situation.

I know it was their decision to release him for the rest of this season but I wonder if it was really their decision that he not return next year and not his.

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...dly-announces-his-early-departure/ar-AA1h1bw5"
 
StandOnIt

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Tumbleweed said:
Matty D. apparently decides not to return to Rackley next year but doesn't seem to have anything else lined up yet? Or does he and he just isn't saying? Seems like a strange situation.

I know it was their decision to release him for the rest of this season but I wonder if it was really their decision that he not return next year and not his.

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...dly-announces-his-early-departure/ar-AA1h1bw5"
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So they cut him loose before the end of the season put Chandler Smith behind the wheel and you are wondering if they would hire him back?
 
donthaveanickname

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Tumbleweed said:
Matty D. apparently decides not to return to Rackley next year but doesn't seem to have anything else lined up yet? Or does he and he just isn't saying? Seems like a strange situation.

I know it was their decision to release him for the rest of this season but I wonder if it was really their decision that he not return next year and not his.

"https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...dly-announces-his-early-departure/ar-AA1h1bw5"
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I initially hought there was some kind of "scandal" that prompted Matt's release but I haven't heard anything.
 
Jorge De Guzman

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wi_racefan said:
Seems pretty well known that they don't really care a lot about his on track performance, but love him as an ambassador for their products.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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From my perspective, there is no better ambassador for a product than a driver that puts it in victory lane…and is also a model citizen off the track.
 
jaqua19

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2 Sweet said:
Reddit in a nutshell, especially the NASCAR subreddit. The knee jerk, over emotional reactions that ignore logic and reason. Bunch of keyboard warriors who never moved out of their parents' house
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Not sure why people think this. A good portion of that subreddit is identical to this forum. You block out the bad eggs, but there's A LOT and I mean A LOT of people there who fit the "racing-forums" mold, if you will

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Tumbleweed

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StandOnIt said:
So they cut him loose before the end of the season put Chandler Smith behind the wheel and you are wondering if they would hire him back?
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Not at all. He was the one that apparently announced first tthat he wouldn't be back next season. It was only after he already announced he wouldn't return next season that they cut him loose for the remainder of this year and put Chandler Smith in the truick.
 
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