Slow down the cars at Indy

Speedbowl14

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Too many tire failures for NASCAR/Goodyear not to take action before next season's race. Corner speeds of 170+ on this surface and these flat corners is just too much for the tires. I don't think a harder tire is a viable solution as that would kill the racing (more so, although yesterday was decent by Indy standards). I'm not sure what the solution is as corner speeds have always been high here, but to compensate Goodyear's brought rock hard tires contributing to famously lackluster races. Maybe keep a softer tire and run the short track package so they knock 10mph off in the corners and have to lift?
 

Nitro Dude

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That might work also. If the fans will go for it. I know I read a couple of posts yesterday talking about the speeds being slow here from the past.
 

StandOnIt

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I think Goodyear who investigates every tire failure, will find that in almost every case the crews were the problem not the tire. Some were ridiculously putting two tires on during the pit stops. I listened to the IRL network broadcast of the race and I played some clips of the Youtube clips and the gerbils were going absolutely ape sheet with over hyping the tires. I doubt any of them were aware that some of the failures were from two tires and said anything about it. That NBC bunch is all about finding something, anything to create some drama. Pretty evident the JGR cars went hard on their setups, Bowman was on two (duh), Byron said something broke. Almost every race have a number of tire failures.
 

aunty dive

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Too many tire failures for NASCAR/Goodyear not to take action before next season's race. Corner speeds of 170+ on this surface and these flat corners is just too much for the tires. I don't think a harder tire is a viable solution as that would kill the racing (more so, although yesterday was decent by Indy standards). I'm not sure what the solution is as corner speeds have always been high here, but to compensate Goodyear's brought rock hard tires contributing to famously lackluster races. Maybe keep a softer tire and run the short track package so they knock 10mph off in the corners and have to lift?
Take action? Maybe start cold tires at the recommended air pressure.
 

StandOnIt

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More cars were wrecked than a tire problem and a serious injury occurred in the pits..what about that? Use the take a number system? :biggrin:
 

Revman

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I think Goodyear who investigates every tire failure, will find that in almost every case the crews were the problem not the tire. Some were ridiculously putting two tires on during the pit stops. I listened to the IRL network broadcast of the race and I played some clips of the Youtube clips and the gerbils were going absolutely ape sheet with over hyping the tires. I doubt any of them were aware that some of the failures were from two tires and said anything about it. That NBC bunch is all about finding something, anything to create some drama. Pretty evident the JGR cars went hard on their setups, Bowman was on two (duh), Byron said something broke. Almost every race have a number of tire failures.

I agree 100% with all of this. JGR went nuts on set up, and Rodney admittedly went conservative, and the best car won because of it. Denny's car was not the best because the set up wasn't within reasonable parameters. WE have a problem with set ups, and it bit OUR ass--the tires had nothing to do with it. Stucker et al. at Goodyear can only do so much. OUR set ups were symptomatic of an organization desperate for speed--find it somewhere else. Reminds me of 2014 to an extent.....two wins, and one of them was Fontana where Harvick was dominant until....wait for a it....a tire failure.
 

Nitro Dude

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More cars were wrecked than a tire problem and a serious injury occurred in the pits..what about that? Use the take a number system? :biggrin:
I was thinking about the pit incident and I would not be surprised if NASCAR lowered the pit speed at Indy. Plus, the crew chief has to emphasize that they have to pay closer attention to other cars when pitting. That one crew guy looked like he had springs on his feet when he jumped on the roof. I would have been screwed...I can't jump any higher then the bottom shelf on the buffet table
 
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JBone88

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Jeez people it’s racing. Attrition is part of the sport. God forbid one race tire wear played a factor and a few guys ended up in the fence. The cautions were the only thing that shook it up yesterday and prevented the 4 or 11 from driving away with it.
 

MRM

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Jeez people it’s racing. Attrition is part of the sport. God forbid one race tire wear played a factor and a few guys ended up in the fence. The cautions were the only thing that shook it up yesterday and prevented the 4 or 11 from driving away with it.
I would agree with a lot of that. Not to mention some of the teams were probably running too much camber.
 

Speedbowl14

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What's concerning is the violence of all the tire failures yesterday because of the high corner speeds. As long as there's a competitive advantage by running low tire pressure, that's what the teams will do. So how about NASCAR steps in and takes downforce out of these cars so they're forced to slow down in the turns.

A lot of these comments remind me of those from the late 90s/early 00s with the basilar skull fractures..."well this is just part of the sport no need to do anything". Yes I understand that aggressive setups are part of the sport and that compromises the integrity/longevity of the tire putting it at risk of a blow-out. But that should not be at 175mph full-throttle in flat Indianapolis corners.

Idk, I guess I'm alone on this "issue".
 

Nitro Dude

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"With the high amount of downforce on the Cup cars..."

That's the problem that needs changing, as has been clear to many of us since the day the high downforce package was announced.
We had the same problem a few years ago with the nitro car tires. When we put to much wing on the rear we would have so much down force that when the chutes were deployed it would chunk the tires so bad that we would have to throw them away after 1 run when we should have been getting at least 10 runs out of a set of tires. If we didn't lean on it and the track prep wasn't set on kill we could get 15 to 20 runs on a set of tires. Now days the big teams do around 5 runs.
 

StandOnIt

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Knew this was coming. Teams seldom listen to the tire engineers trying to get that extra tenth. Greedy and 2 tire stupid got some of them.

 

Nitro Dude

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I'm kind of glad it wasn't a tire problem. Now that we know the full story I think due to abrasive track surface and the high speeds into the corners it may not be a bad idea for at least 1 day of practice before the race next year.
 

Spotter22

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corner speeds are pretty much the same since they are carrying as much speed down the straights with 250-300 less hp
 

Team Penske

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Too many tire failures for NASCAR/Goodyear not to take action before next season's race. Corner speeds of 170+ on this surface and these flat corners is just too much for the tires. I don't think a harder tire is a viable solution as that would kill the racing (more so, although yesterday was decent by Indy standards). I'm not sure what the solution is as corner speeds have always been high here, but to compensate Goodyear's brought rock hard tires contributing to famously lackluster races. Maybe keep a softer tire and run the short track package so they knock 10mph off in the corners and have to lift?
OR the drivers can learn how to drive and the CC's can learn to set up a car properly instead of way to much camber to compensate for the drivers inability.
How come Harvick won the race instead of Denny? Different driving abilities.
 

DanicaFreak

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OR the drivers can learn how to drive and the CC's can learn to set up a car properly instead of way to much camber to compensate for the drivers inability.
How come Harvick won the race instead of Denny? Different driving abilities.
They told denny to look after the right front. The gibbs teams gambled on set up and failed it would appear.
 

OldTimer

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Get rid of the side skirts, go back to an air dam (get rid of the splitter) no wider than the frame rails with a specified static ground clearance, max 3" spoiler at 45 degrees....then let's see who is the best driver.
 

Spotter22

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Get rid of the side skirts, go back to an air dam (get rid of the splitter) no wider than the frame rails with a specified static ground clearance, max 3" spoiler at 45 degrees....then let's see who is the best driver.
So you are all for single file racing. Gotcha
 

Formerjackman

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OR the drivers can learn how to drive and the CC's can learn to set up a car properly instead of way to much camber to compensate for the drivers inability.
How come Harvick won the race instead of Denny? Different driving abilities.

Teams run all that camber because no matter WHO you are, the cars will be faster that way, (assuming you know how to set up the car otherwise). The same thing for lowering the air pressures below the reccomended spec. They do it because it WORKS, and has little to do with driver ability. teams have been pushing the envelope since the first two cars raced. Harvick won and Denny likely went into the wall for one of two reasons. Either the 4 team was just luckier, or maybe they settled for just a little bit less camber, which is why Denny was faster. Hamlin might have also had a little push unrelated to the camber. The Brickyard is a entity all its own. Until you've walked on that surface in person or got down on your knees and kissed the bricks, you cannot believe just how abrasive that track surface is. If you have ever driven on a road where they have ground off a layer of asphalt to lay another coat down, that will give a little idea of what the surface looks like up close. I'm surprised the tires last five laps.......
 

CalTenn

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Give cars about 800 hp, do away with the gear rule, do away with spoiler angle rule. Get rid of splitter and see who the best drivers are!!
 

Team Penske

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Teams run all that camber because no matter WHO you are, the cars will be faster that way, (assuming you know how to set up the car otherwise). The same thing for lowering the air pressures below the reccomended spec. They do it because it WORKS, and has little to do with driver ability
BS is my reply. How can a car be faster sitting in the pits or in the hauler all busted up?
Going fast for a few laps gets you NOTHING if your out of the race.
 

Magnethead

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Now knowing that this tire performed wonderfully at Pocono, I agree that they can keep the tire next year. It performed well for 20+ teams that didn't push the envelope.

I hate to say it, maybe NASCAR needs to step in with a camber rule.

Taking front downforce away will help, but it will also cause drivers to scrub even more right front trying to turn a tight car (unless the spoiler is brought down accordingly)

Adding front drag will help by requiring no grille tape, but I don't think it will be substantial enough to be effective

Shrinking the tapered spacer 1/32 will just make the drivers flatfoot it through the turns harder, making the problem worse

Opening the tapered spacer 1/32 will just increase corner speeds on entry and make the problem worse

So nip the problem right at the bud - camber rule.
 

Formerjackman

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BS is my reply. How can a car be faster sitting in the pits or in the hauler all busted up?
Going fast for a few laps gets you NOTHING if your out of the race.

Because if one or two guys get away with it or figure out how to make it work, they will blow your doors off, that's why. Were you around when they stared running cambered rear axles in the early 90's? A couple of guys figured out how to make it work (Andy Petree for one) and they smoked everybody. All the other teams were forced to try and keep up and I think it was maybe the spring 92' Martinsville race, about a third of the field broke axles, because they went just a little too far with it. The engine rules we have now have mostly eliminated it, but back when you had practice engines, qualifying engines and race engines, the components in the qualifying and race engine were made JUST strong enough to go the needed distance and little more. Why? Because the lighter you make the engine parts, the faster you go. Did they blow up and put you out of the race sometimes? Sure they did, but the alternative was getting beat every week because if 25 guys run a lightened up engine, at least a FEW will go the distance. If you were serious about running up front, you had to play the game. I can speak specifically of 2000 era Cup style motors. At 8500 RPM, the were almost impossible to break, but you were going to get lapped repeatedly. At 9500 RPM, you were going to lose a few, but you would be in contention. The exact same thing goes for front end camber, low tire pressures, pushing the rules on the bodies, making suspension parts that will skew the rear end and then snap back, and more. If you play it totally safe, you'll be watching back bumpers drive off into the distance. Without knowing the exact setups on the 11 and the 4, as well as a few others, this camber thing is just mindless speculation anyway. They MAY have had the exact same amount of camber, but there MAY have been different mitigating circumstances on why one made it and one crashed.
 
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