Something's wrong with a system that.....

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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.....moves a driver 381 points out of the lead to P1 in the playoffs. Nowhere but NASCAR. Yeah, I know they're not going to get rid of the Chase but come-on, get serious. Not only does the driver that has finished best throughout the year be relegated to 3rd in the post season, the 546 point lead over the 12th position has been adjusted to 30 points. How does this make sense?

This has got to be 'the worst' NASCAR rule change in the history of the sport. How much thought could have actually went into this? Brian France has the nice office with the big desk and everything just like a real executive. It's not like he had to come up with this points system over a beer at some bar, oh say the Boot Hill Saloon, and scribble it on a napkin. On second thought.....
 
At least the boys in the chase get some more points for wins they accumulated during the season.
Many of us think there should be more points for winning and this slightly addresses that.....although I want a whole revamp of the points awarded each race
 
My point system 43 points for the win and 1 point for last place 5 extra for the win who ever has the most at the end of the year wins

but that is to simple
 
Hambone would be 9th in the standings under the "old" points system. I agree something is wrong.


2010 Sprint Cup Driver 'Classic' Points Standings:
[after Richmond, race 26 of 36....the OLD way]:
rank, car#, driver, points, behind
1) #29-Kevin Harvick (X)[3 wins], 3723
2) #18-Kyle Busch (X)[3 wins], 3495, -228
2) #24-Jeff Gordon (X), 3493, -230
4) #99-Carl Edwards (X), 3427, -296
5) #48-Jimmie Johnson (X)[5 wins], 3417, -306
6) #14-Tony Stewart (X)[1 win], 3417, -306
7) #31-Jeff Burton (X), 3390, -333
8) #17-Matt Kenseth (X), 3346, -377
9) #11-Denny Hamlin (X)[6 wins], 3342, -381
10) #2-Kurt Busch (X)[2 wins], 3337, -386
11) #33-Clint Bowyer (X), 3221, -502
12) #16-Greg Biffle (X)[1 win], 3177, -546
13) #39-Ryan Newman [1 win], 3079, -644
14) #1-McMurray [2 wins], 3050, -673
15) #5-Mark Martin, 3022, -701
(X= chase drivers)
 
Originally NASCAR said they wanted to "reward consistency." That statement is the farthest from the truth. No one can argue with the fact that Harvick has been the most consistent through the last 26 races.

The leader at the end of those 26 races should be rewarded with points also.
 
Smoke14 said:
Originally NASCAR said they wanted to "reward consistency." That statement is the farthest from the truth. No one can argue with the fact that Harvick has been the most consistent through the last 26 races.

The leader at the end of those 26 races should be rewarded with points also.
Click to expand...

I agree, he should be awarded something significant for his regular season run to the top of the point system. I saw/heard DW say something over the weekend that I sure agree with. He said that the leader in the points after the 26th race should be awarded the first pit selection for his accomplishment. I know quite a few of you would disagree but that's one of the few things that I agree with that's come out of DW's mouth.
 
"Reward consistency". That's what the old system did. The higher your finish the more points you got, the most points at the season end was the champ.
Very simple system that they had to mess with.:(

One thing I do feel they should eliminate is the 5 points for leading a lap. OK, keep it if you pass the leader under green but rewarding 5 points to the 20th place car that leads a lap under caution because the leaders pit is questionable IMHO, of course.
 
First pit selection was always a "perk" of the current champ,,,,,until they messed with the system by going to the chase.
 
After Labonte and Kenseth won titles with one regular season win, people were hollering for giving a bigger reward for winning. Can't have it both ways.
 
Even Football has regular season champions, for example, AFC champ, NFC Champ.
Maybe we should divide the 43 car field into AFC, and NFC teams.....
Make all teams into 3 car teams, and average all 3 cars points together, for team Chidress, etc......
Truthfully, I enjoyed the old system more.....
MoMike
 
PettyBlue said:
After Labonte and Kenseth won titles with one regular season win, people were hollering for giving a bigger reward for winning. Can't have it both ways.
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Terry Labonte won the championship twice with two wins, never one. Maybe you are thinking of Benny Parsons? Anyhow, yes Kenseth did win with one win but I don't remember there being a public outcry other than some members of the media.
 
Waaaaaa!!!!

Stop crying its been 7 years get over it already its here to stay.
 
kkfan91 said:
Waaaaaa!!!!

Stop crying its been 7 years get over it already its here to stay.
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Yup, gotta agree. Anyone saying to go back to the way it was before might as well just give up and try a different sport, 'cause that ain't happenin'.

I'd be willing to bet that the points change back in '72 ruffled some feathers too, but there was no internet back then for people to throw a fit on.

They actually made changes over the last couple years that made sense. Since they were resetting the field anyway, re-setting it based on number of wins actually awarded wins more than anything else, which is what should be done.

What they need to do is hold good on thier promise to stop making so many damn changes.

Oh, and MoMike. The AFC and NFC champs are decided in the post season. Division champs, which doesn't mean much of anything, are decided at the end of the regular season.:)
 
I don't like the chase system but if they are going to keep it they should do it more like how NHRA does their "countdown" At least there the positions in the standings don't change once it begins.
 
How about give everyone a point for each week they lead the points? Let the current points leader keep the lead and place him 5 points ahead of 2nd?

I almost won a championship a few years ago with the chase format, so i guess i cant rag on it to much. I would not of got a top 5 but i got 3rd. I started racing later in the year and got up to 8th before the chase.
 
kimmel, you are wrong about people not complaining after Kenseth won. Matt was said to be the most blase driver ever. I kind of agreed with them but later changed my mind. And the complaints kept coming about how luck fell his way and not so much skill. I agree that he was the luckiest driver that year, but he is as skilled a wheel man as any other.

vadirt, it won't work telling people that if they don't like it, look for another sport. Most don't even know about the points changes in '72. Or how King Richard made more points than the winner of the race. The modern ere started in '73 and I'd bet that the majority of the fans were not fans when Bill Elliott or Rusty Wallace won titles. I love some of the changes and actually like the Chase. I totally understand what Brian France is trying to do, but he's just missing the boat.

As for the two divisions, that idea has been bandied about many times. I think that even Bruton Smith thought about trying that idea. The problem is, how would they divide the drivers, and what would happen to the schedule. Obviously, the couldn't have two races each weekend. Just think, in what division Jr. was in, the division that didn't have him would have a gazillion complaints that they couldn't see their favorite driver. Also, it would require franchising the teams, thus part time teams would be out and so would those smaller sponsors. If nothing else, NASCAR is about sponsorship and they don't want to do something that would shy any sponsors away, no matter how small.

Andy's favorite, ARCA has been around almost as long as NASCAR, but isn't nearly as popular. Why? Exposure is that reason. Now that NASCAR is tops, it must work to stay there and that means finding new fans to replace aging fans.
 
I am getting old but didn't Stewart win the cup in 05 with NO wins in the last ten races?
 
de7xwcc said:
My point system 43 points for the win and 1 point for last place 5 extra for the win who ever has the most at the end of the year wins

but that is to simple
Click to expand...

I agree with you, make it simple. It will reward running up front and winning races.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
.....moves a driver 381 points out of the lead to P1 in the playoffs. Nowhere but NASCAR. Yeah, I know they're not going to get rid of the Chase but come-on, get serious. Not only does the driver that has finished best throughout the year be relegated to 3rd in the post season, the 546 point lead over the 12th position has been adjusted to 30 points. How does this make sense?

This has got to be 'the worst' NASCAR rule change in the history of the sport. How much thought could have actually went into this? Brian France has the nice office with the big desk and everything just like a real executive. It's not like he had to come up with this points system over a beer at some bar, oh say the Boot Hill Saloon, and scribble it on a napkin. On second thought.....
Click to expand...

You need to take your frustrations out on the USARacing Pro Cup Series people, they invented it. NASCAR just imported it.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
You need to take your frustrations out on the USARacing Pro Cup Series people, they invented it. NASCAR just imported it.
Click to expand...

At least with Hooters Pro Cup they were combining the Northern Series and Southern Series for the Championship series. It seemed like there was actually a point to it. Seems pointless in NASCAR.
 
HUTfan said:
The Chase sucks and I will not 'get over it'. It should die.
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I sure hate to see a man cry for the rest of his life over something that he can't control. If it's that bad, quit watching and paying attention. Sheesh. As I said, I don't understand why you guys continue to gripe about it but yet continue to either watch or keep up with the sport. Y'all must be masochists.
 
PettyBlue said:
After Labonte and Kenseth won titles with one regular season win, people were hollering for giving a bigger reward for winning. Can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Now its possible to win it with no title. Look how Bowyer hasnt won a race but has stayed consistant enough to be a top 12 driver. All he realisticly has to do is finish about 5th in all 10 races and not DNQ and he would likely get the title. :mad:
 
kkfan91 said:
didn't the last place guy win last year?
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I don't remember but I believe you are right, I think the countdown sucks as well and it has a ton of issues but I just like that they at least they let the driver who was in the #1 spot remain in the #1 spot when the playoffs start. Makes more sense then having Harvick drop down from #1 when hes been there almost all year.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
You need to take your frustrations out on the USARacing Pro Cup Series people, they invented it. NASCAR just imported it.
Click to expand...

I couldn't care less how the USARacing Pro Cup Series determines their champion. No offense to you USARacing Pro Cup Series fans out there but if that's where Brian got this idea from, he needs to change the channel. :D

buckaroo said:
I sure hate to see a man cry for the rest of his life over something that he can't control. If it's that bad, quit watching and paying attention. Sheesh. As I said, I don't understand why you guys continue to gripe about it but yet continue to either watch or keep up with the sport. Y'all must be masochists.
Click to expand...

I watch the sport because I like the racing. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with every decision made nor do you. I think the Chase system is flawed for the reasons that I already said. Like I said in the first post in this thread, I know they're not going to get rid of the Chase. It's too late to remove it but it sure isn't too late to fix it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I couldn't care less how the USARacing Pro Cup Series determines their champion. No offense to you USARacing Pro Cup Series fans out there but if that's where Brian got this idea from, he needs to change the channel. :D



I watch the sport because I like the racing. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with every decision made nor do you. I think the Chase system is flawed for the reasons that I already said. Like I said in the first post in this thread, I know they're not going to get rid of the Chase. It's too late to remove it but it sure isn't too late to fix it.
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I don't know...? Recently my computer got hit with a virus which rendered it almost completely inoperable. I had to reformat the hard drive, reinstall all the basic software and start from scratch. Maybe that's what NA__AR needs, reformat and start with a new operating system, returning to the basics and not screwing things up with superfluous and unneeded software??
 
There is no perfect system. They are flaws in every system/format. Myself, I'd like to see them go back to a 36-race deal and award more points to the winner of each race. I know they'll never do this, but I'd really like to see a system created where points are awarded on every lap. That would prevent mailing it on for qualifying and riding around in the back at plate races.
 
buckaroo said:
I sure hate to see a man cry for the rest of his life over something that he can't control. If it's that bad, quit watching and paying attention. Sheesh. As I said, I don't understand why you guys continue to gripe about it but yet continue to either watch or keep up with the sport. Y'all must be masochists.
Click to expand...


And I don't know why you care if people like it or not.
 
MRM said:
There is no perfect system. They are flaws in every system/format. Myself, I'd like to see them go back to a 36-race deal and award more points to the winner of each race. I know they'll never do this, but I'd really like to see a system created where points are awarded on every lap. That would prevent mailing it on for qualifying and riding around in the back at plate races.
Click to expand...

The bold part was what I was alluding to when I mentioned "Get back to basics."

As far as the "Points for every lap," NASCAR had a variant of that for a couple years just before Latford came up with the current point system. They awarded points based laps. As I remember (and I might have this wrong) race winners got 100 points and a two point separation for each position. In addition each driver got points for each lap completed
Tracks of less than a mile .......0.25 points per lap
one mile tracks......................0..50
1.5+ mile tracks.....................0.75
Daytona and Talladega.............1.25

(It feels like I'm missing something but can't remember what it is, for the life of me)

It was confusing as all get out AND encouraged back markers to stay out and just motor around, not even trying to race. A big problem with the system developed about almost through the season when some middle-pack driver (Elmo Langley of Jim Vandiver?) was ahead in the points but hadn't finished better than second or third but had run every race. Richard Petty and Bobby Allison had won something like half the races and had beaten the leading driver in every race they had run together.

No, I think I'll pass on another lap/points plan.
 
John Galt said:
I don't know...? Recently my computer got hit with a virus which rendered it almost completely inoperable. I had to reformat the hard drive, reinstall all the basic software and start from scratch. Maybe that's what NA__AR needs, reformat and start with a new operating system, returning to the basics and not screwing things up with superfluous and unneeded software??
Click to expand...
you're running DOS now? bravo!
 
SlowNeasy said:
you're running DOS now? bravo!
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You get my point, I'm [almost] sure. Enough with the gimmicks; just good racing is enough for the race fan. We (Me, anyway; I won't presume to speak for everyone but a lot of race fans will agree with me, I'm sure) don't need any S&B-style playoff. All we need is a simple, X-number of races schedule and the driver with the most points at the end of the season wills. Let the S&B retreads stick with their sport and let us stick with ours.

You and I both know that this ill-conceived playoff system came about when NA__AR actually believed that it could compete with the NFL. That will just never happen. Motor sports have always been, and will always be, to the masses, a second-tier sport with a niche following. I say just be happy with the sport we have and don't try and trick it up in an effort to make it something that it's not.

Stick to the basics!
 
Stewart Fan said:
And I don't know why you care if people like it or not.
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I don't give a rip what you or others think about the sport, but you have a point in that I know I'm getting real tired of reading the same tripe about the same thing. I get it. Most of you hate the Chase. Maybe the mods should make an area just for letting off steam about what everyone hates about NASCAR. I know it would be filled with Andy's threads, but it would give those of us who are tired of reading the criticism a way to skip the same old, same old.
 
buckaroo said:
I don't give a rip what you or others think about the sport, but you have a point in that I know I'm getting real tired of reading the same tripe about the same thing. I get it. Most of you hate the Chase. Maybe the mods should make an area just for letting off steam about what everyone hates about NASCAR. I know it would be filled with Andy's threads, but it would give those of us who are tired of reading the criticism a way to skip the same old, same old.
Click to expand...

:beerbang: sounds good to me!
 
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