Sprint Cup Regulars Invading Lower-Tier Series

PeopleAreStrange

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Editor's Note:
. . . . . I had to type a position paper essay for my English Composition class, so I chose this topic. I just turned this essay in this morning. Since many of you care about this topic, I figure I might as well post it on here as well. Just beware this essay does have a few weaknesses. This is really long so it takes a while to read, I typed up much of this paper before looking up citations for my facts (so some things do not have very good citations), I only have quotes from one person, and I do not have many literary devices / figures of speech. I should have worked on this essay longer.

. . . . . One other thing I should mention is that this forum software has terrible editing and formatting capabilities. There is no way for me to get this into full MLA format (like double spacing), and indents are a bunch of little spaces since I can not indent the first line of a paragraph on here. Formatting would not copy over from Word. And for everyone's convenience, I made the text bigger.

Sprint Cup Regulars Invading Lower-Tier Series
. . . . . Should NASCAR continue to allow full-time Sprint Cup Series drivers to move down and race against drivers in a lower-tier series? There is good reason that NASCAR should place limits on Sprint Cup drivers moving down to compete in the two main lower-tier series. Full-time Sprint Cup drivers who invade the two main lower-tier series occupy rides that should go to drivers who are trying to work their way up, occupy finishing positions that would otherwise go to drivers competing full-time in that series (thus affecting points and standings), and have an unfair advantage against drivers with less experience (thus overshadowing drivers trying to make a name for themselves).

. . . . . NASCAR is the sanctioning body of many racing series in the United States, as well as a few other countries. Most of these are relatively small and regional. However, there are three primary series that race throughout the United States: the Sprint Cup Series (NASCAR’s highest series), the Nationwide Series (second highest series), and the Camping World Truck Series (third highest series) (“NASCAR for Dummies”). Most race car drivers race in regional series (some sanctioned by NASCAR, many not), and never make it to one of NASCAR’s top three series. If a driver does make it to one of the top three series, they typically start at the Truck Series or Nationwide Series and try to make their way up to the Sprint Cup Series. Each of the three series has its own point system, based on finishing position and laps led, that determine the standings and the champion at the end of each season (Noterman). Drivers can compete in any series they want (as long as they can get a ride), but have to choose one series to earn points in - typically the highest series they have a full-time ride in (assuming they have one).

. . . . . Full-time Sprint Cup Series drivers (also known as Sprint Cup regulars) moving down to compete in the two lower series is nothing new. Up until the 2011 season, NASCAR awarded points to any driver in any series (Noterman). But as a result of Sprint Cup regulars invading and dominating in the Nationwide Series, the most frequently invaded series, NASCAR took a step in the right direction and announced that drivers must pick one series that they want to earn points in, and would not earn points in any other series they race in (Noterman). This new rule was intended to discourage drivers from racing in series that they did not earn points in (drivers typically choose the highest series they race in), but drivers continued to move down to race in the two lower series anyway. Now, it is time to think of a different solution to keep Sprint Cup regulars out of the two lower series and causing problems. Unfortunately, not everyone agrees. There are some people who believe that sponsors would flee or that nobody would watch the two lower series if Sprint Cup regulars did not race in the lower series. And believe it or not, there are some opponents who simply believe that drivers who have earned a ride in the Sprint Cup Series have also earned the right to invade the two lower series.

. . . . . One big problem with Sprint Cup regulars competing in the two lower series is that they occupy rides. And a ride that is occupied by a Sprint Cup regular in one of the lower series is a ride not available to a driver wanting to compete for points in one of the lower series. Most of the time, Sprint Cup regulars race for the best teams when they race in a lower series. In other words, it is not average rides that up-and-comers are kept out of, it is quality rides that they are kept out of. That is part of the reason why Sprint Cup regulars invading the Nationwide Series is such a big problem even though there are three or less invaders in most Nationwide Series races. Although this happens in the Truck Series as well, it is not as big of a problem in that series since it is not invaded by Sprint Cup regulars as often. There is an example of a Nationwide Series driver being kept out of a good ride next year. Sam Hornish had a full-time ride in 2013, but he may be out of a ride in 2014 because his ride is losing sponsorship (Long). Yet, the team he races for, Penske Racing, fields another full-time car in the Nationwide Series, and fills the seat with two different Sprint Cup regulars for most races. The current plan is to continue letting Sprint Cup regulars race in that car instead of letting Hornish have a full-time ride. Bah humbug! Some people who support Sprint Cup regulars invading the two lower series worry that sponsors may leave rides (thus reducing the number of rides) if Sprint Cup invaders leave on the assumption that some sponsors are there specifically to sponsor Sprint Cup regulars at a discount. However, opponents do not consider that sponsors may be more willing to sponsor drivers in the lower series if they do not have to worry about attention being taken away by Sprint Cup regulars.

. . . . . Another big problem with Sprint Cup regulars invading the two lower series (particularly the Nationwide Series) is that they occupy finishing positions. Sprint Cup invaders occupying finishing positions may not seem like a big problem since there are only a few in any given Nationwide race (and do not race in many Truck Series races), but it is a huge problem in the Nationwide Series, where the vast majority of races are won by Sprint Cup invaders. In fact, in the 2013 season, twenty-six out of thirty-three Nationwide Series races were won by Sprint Cup regulars (“2013 NASCAR Nationwide Series Results”). Even the 2013 Nationwide Series champion, Austin Dillon, failed to win a race. Points that determine the standings and the champion are mostly awarded by finishing position, and the winner gets the most points if they earn points in that series (Noterman). In other words, drivers competing for points in the Nationwide Series are not only kept from winning by Sprint Cup invaders, they are also kept from getting the extra points that come with winning. Thus, Sprint Cup regulars competing in the two lower series affect the standings of the two lower series (particularly the Nationwide Series), and even affect who becomes the champion in those series. Incidents and on-track battles between Sprint Cup regulars and point contenders can also affect standings by affecting the outcome of races. Sprint Cup regulars who do not earn points in the two lower series are more willing to make risky moves than drivers who earn points in the lower series knowing there is less to lose if something ends up going wrong.

. . . . . Arguably the biggest problem with Sprint Cup regulars competing in the two lower series is that they have an unfair advantage. Obviously, if a driver has made it to the top, they are going to have more experience than a driver trying to work their way up. This statement is backed up by results. As stated in the previous paragraph, twenty-six out of thirty-three Nationwide Series races in 2013 were won by Sprint Cup regulars (“2013 NASCAR Nationwide Series Results”). That is more than three quarters of all Nationwide Series races, and that is despite there being around three or less Sprint Cup regulars in most Nationwide Series races. As a result, drivers who belong in the two lower series (drivers competing for points in one of the two lower series) are being deprived of wins. Yet there are people who fail to see how Sprint Cup regulars reduce competition at the front of the field in lower-tier races. NASCAR president Mike Helton recently stated: “…the battle between Sam Hornish and Austin Dillon is example of how competitive that series [Nationwide] still is and has become” (Engle). 2013 Nationwide Series champion Austin Dillon did not win any races, and runner-up Sam Hornish only won one race (“NASCAR Nationwide Standings for 2013”). Talk about competitive! With how much Sprint Cup regulars dominate whenever they race in a lower-tier series, they get much more media attention than those who belong in one of the two lower series. Many racing fans want the two lower series to stand on their own and for the drivers who earn points in those series to be the stars of those series. People who side with the opposition worry that nobody would watch the two lower series if Sprint Cup regulars did not invade and dominate them, implying that Sprint Cup regulars draw people in. The opposition likes to forget that people have quit watching or do not watch the two lower series because of the reduced competition as a result of Sprint Cup invaders dominating against drivers who belong in the series.

. . . . . With all of the problems that come with Sprint Cup regulars racing in the two lower series, NASCAR should limit Sprint Cup regulars moving down to compete in the two lower series. A potential solution would be to limit drivers from racing in series that they do not collect points in to only five or six races a year. That allows drivers to race in other series for just a few races for whatever reason. A couple of examples could include (but should not be limited to) a driver substituting for another driver in another series or a driver wanting to race at a track that his series does not race at. It would not be a total end to drivers invading a lower series, but would prevent any particular driver from dominating in a lower series throughout most of a season. Unfortunately, NASCAR president Mike Helton appears to be in opposition of placing limits on Sprint Cup regulars invading the two lower series, as indicated by what he said at a pre-race press conference: “We believe it’s in NASCAR’s best interest currently to have an open model for its three national series and not restrict who participates in them” (Engle). Based on this statement, it appears that drivers who compete for points in the two lower series will continue to be restricted by Sprint Cup regulars invading their series until there is a change in mindset from NASCAR’s leaders.

Works Cited:
Engle, Greg. “NASCAR at Homestead-Miami Speedway, Nov. 2013: Mike Helton Part 1.” YouTube. YouTube, 15 Nov. 2013. Web. 19 Nov. 2013.
Long, Mark. “Penske, Hornish Part Ways After Decade Together.” Associated Press. AP.org, 17 Nov. 2013. Web. 23 Nov. 2013.
“NASCAR for Dummies.” Dummies. Dummies.com, n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2013.
Noterman, Ryan. “NASCAR Rule Changes: 2011 Changes to the Points System and More.” Bleacher Report. BleacherReport.com, 27 Jan. 2011. Web. 23 Nov. 2013.
“2013 NASCAR Nationwide Series Results.” Racing-Reference. N.p., n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2013.
“NASCAR Nationwide Standings for 2013.” Racing-Reference. N.p., n.d. Web. 23 Nov. 2013.
 
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Johali

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How was it received by your instructor, burn it in effigy or bow down to it?
 

PeopleAreStrange

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She probably hasn't graded this yet since I just turned it in this morning. I did tell her about my plan to post this on a forum, and she liked that idea.
 

Johali

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That's a lotta typing and research, I hope It's well received.
 

hidesert cowboy

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first have you ever thought about operating a race track and the most basic challenge, getting people to show up??
2, have you thought about TV ratings and keeping the number 2 series on large networks that are able to reach large audiences??
3, have you thought about getting an maintaining sponsorship for the series and all the expenses that go with it??
4, have you thought about why the cup series is the top series in the first place??
5, further have you thought about why the NW series is the number 2 series and how it provides up and commers with exposure and a chance which is the very thing you claim to be seeking??
6, lastly have you thought about how the NW series is different from, ARCA, world of outlaws, or even indy car??

the answer to all these questions is an emphatic NO, based on what I read. you have a fundamental misunderstanding of all these things. The reason NW is the number 2 series is because the cup regulars race there not inspite of it!!! let me ask this question, lets say you are putting on a late model race at a local short track, there are many ways to promote such a race. But lets say you could lure a guy who races in the cup series to race in your late model race?? what effect would having tony stewart or kyle busch have on people coming to the race and further your ability for your promotion of the race to be successful. The very thing the second tier series is, is a chance to the little guy to race with the big names. it helps them get exposure. Even from an up and coming drivers perspective, would you rather race brain scott and eric mcclure or kyle busch and carl edwards. just to say you raced with those guys would be a very cool thing to say. If you can't guage yourself against the best how can you be the best?? NW series gives this opportunity. Instead of being worried to death about cup guys driving in the series, why not instead thank them for using their star power there, and realize without the cup guys driving there its no better than the ARCA series or some other series most people haven't heard of. Nascar is a business thinking about it in terms of some sort of feel good life must be fair to everything mentality isn't reality. I think nascar changing it so cup guys can't win the title is all that can be asked of them. Trying to further isolate cup guys from the series hurts the series and it hurts the ability of the up and coming drivers to shine as a result. If not given the chance to shine on a big stage how can they do a simple thing like attract sponsorship?? The stage is smaller and sponsorship harder for your "little guys" which hurts their chances of making it in cup which is everyone ultimate goal.
 

ToyYoda

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first have you ever thought about operating a race track and the most basic challenge, getting people to show up??
2, have you thought about TV ratings and keeping the number 2 series on large networks that are able to reach large audiences??
3, have you thought about getting an maintaining sponsorship for the series and all the expenses that go with it??
4, have you thought about why the cup series is the top series in the first place??
5, further have you thought about why the NW series is the number 2 series and how it provides up and commers with exposure and a chance which is the very thing you claim to be seeking??
6, lastly have you thought about how the NW series is different from, ARCA, world of outlaws, or even indy car??

the answer to all these questions is an emphatic NO, based on what I read. you have a fundamental misunderstanding of all these things. The reason NW is the number 2 series is because the cup regulars race there not inspite of it!!! let me ask this question, lets say you are putting on a late model race at a local short track, there are many ways to promote such a race. But lets say you could lure a guy who races in the cup series to race in your late model race?? what effect would having tony stewart or kyle busch have on people coming to the race and further your ability for your promotion of the race to be successful. The very thing the second tier series is, is a chance to the little guy to race with the big names. it helps them get exposure. Even from an up and coming drivers perspective, would you rather race brain scott and eric mcclure or kyle busch and carl edwards. just to say you raced with those guys would be a very cool thing to say. If you can't guage yourself against the best how can you be the best?? NW series gives this opportunity. Instead of being worried to death about cup guys driving in the series, why not instead thank them for using their star power there, and realize without the cup guys driving there its no better than the ARCA series or some other series most people haven't heard of. Nascar is a business thinking about it in terms of some sort of feel good life must be fair to everything mentality isn't reality. I think nascar changing it so cup guys can't win the title is all that can be asked of them. Trying to further isolate cup guys from the series hurts the series and it hurts the ability of the up and coming drivers to shine as a result. If not given the chance to shine on a big stage how can they do a simple thing like attract sponsorship?? The stage is smaller and sponsorship harder for your "little guys" which hurts their chances of making it in cup which is everyone ultimate goal.
The Cup regulars really do add to the Nationwide Series. Just ask one of the hundreds of people in attendance every week.
 
M

mreed

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One big problem with Sprint Cup regulars competing in the two lower series is that they occupy rides. And a ride that is occupied by a Sprint Cup regular in one of the lower series is a ride not available to a driver wanting to compete for points in one of the lower series.

The cars/trucks that the Cup regulars race in the lower series are not full time NW/Truck series teams. They run some of the races in the lower series with a Cup driver, so a NW/Truck series driver racing for points is not missing out on an opportunity to race for points because of Cup drivers racing with those teams.

It doesn't bother me to see Cup drivers in the lower series. I'm also fine with it if there are no Cup driver in the race too.
Some people always complain how boring it is to watch a NW or Truck series race just to see some Cup driver win.
Yet these same people will tell you that a Cup race wasn't boring because they enjoy the good racing further back in the pack, and not just the race for the lead/win.

If that's true, why can't they do that when watching a NW or Truck race that has Cup drivers competing in it without bitching about the Cup drivers stinking up the show?
 
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StandOnIt

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Valid points, but not one word about sponsors and the packages that are put together by owners to entice sponsors, or who the sponsors want to pay for to drive the car. Bottom line, there is no way you can be successful in Nascar or the Nationwide series without sponsorship. The reality that some have a hard time with is that the word from on high is that the sport is fan driven. The racing is sponsor driven, and fan driven. The teams cut from prize money that comes from Nascar(fans) isn't enough, they have to also have income from sponsors. I don't know the exact percentage, but for teams, sponsors fund much more than prize money. This is big business, has very little in common with stick n ball ways of doing things. Nascar has 15 year old rookies competing with 55 year old veterans, women competing head to head with men. Fan money and sponsorship money make it all work.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Cup drivers in Nationwide and Truck wouldn't bother me if it wasn't every single race. NASCAR's to blame for that by moving the two series' away from their roots and having them be support shows. It became a deal where Cup drivers could get 300 miles of practice by running in the Busch Series. By the mid 2000s, there were 17-21 Cup regulars in the races.

The problem has gotten better. Right now, it's really only two drivers. Two drivers racing for Cup teams with Cup crews.
 

hidesert cowboy

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one thing that is forgotten on this website and the people who post here. IF YOUR HERE YOU ARE NOT A CASUAL FAN OF THE SPORT I would call the people who post here well beyond a causal fan instead I would call a hard core fan. I would also call posters here much more knowledgeable about the sport. To us here we like things different than the casual fan. We are in the minority. would we still watch a NW race without cup guys??probably but the causal fan wants to see cup guys. its the casual fan that drives the business decisions of nascar. Now if you want to complain about how thats been a problem and the sport has alienated certain groups ie rednecks from the south, ok thats a different discussion for another day.
 

BamaFan

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"Rednecks from the south"

I proudly resemble the remark sir!!!:D

Also I think there are several drivers that the level they race on Cup/Nationwide/Trucks,
Out weighs their talent level. So is that ever been considered,? No they drive where ever they get a ride and sponsorship. So I say let them race where ever they want. Good for the young ones to race against the best.
 

Yogisd1

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Let's face it. The reason more and more cup drivers are racing in the NW series is because they use it as a testing session. To get a sense of how the track will change and how to make the right changes. Kevin Harvick said those exact words in an interview in victory lane last year. As far as sponsors go, are you going to sponsor a car that doesn't get any camera time because cup regulars are getting it all. It's great if you sponsor a cup regular, but not so great if you are a regular NW sponsor. Casual fans do not want to see cup regulars in NW. Casual fans don't even know who the cup regulars are if they aren't told. If you want to turn casual fans into your regular fanbase, you have to give them good racing from the front to the rear of the pack, otherwise they will stay casual fans. As for the up and comers in NW. If there are any more cup regulars in NW, you won't have any up and comers to talk about in NW. You have to have a ride in order to make a name for yourself. As for big names to attract fans. The example of putting on a late model race at a local track. Yes it would help get fans in the seats, but only because they aren't there every week. If they were there every week the other racers would start going to other tracks where they have a chance to win, and the fans would follow. Unfortunately NW regulars do not have that option. The reason we have the chase is because a cup title was won without winning a single race. If you love the chase, no problem. If you think the chase is a sham, then why would you want the same conditions for NW. The cure is simple, limit the amount of races a driver can be in to two races a year. And do not give owner points to any car a cup driver is in, that way you don't get the revolving door of drivers in a cup owners car. If Nascar really wanted NW drivers to compete with cup drivers then they should do away with the 35 locked in and the provisionals in cup. But that's another discussion. I think you did a real good job on your essay, it deserves a good grade.
 
S

StoneTown

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We already have lower-tier racing without Cup regulars. It's called ARCA.
It doesn't have Cup regulars. Or people in the stands. Or people watching on TV.
It's so awesome!!! Why doesn't Nascar just copy the blazing success that is ARCA? Do they hate puppies?
 

ToyYoda

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We already have lower-tier racing without Cup regulars. It's called ARCA.
It doesn't have Cup regulars. Or people in the stands. Or people watching on TV.
It's so awesome!!! Why doesn't Nascar just copy the blazing success that is ARCA? Do they hate puppies?
Meh...not exactly sure NW = ARCA without Cup guys winning every week. I don't think the Cup guys need to disappear from NW completely, but they probably do need to have their involvement limited somewhat. When your "regulars" only win 11% of the races and you have a winless champion, everything isn't exactly unicorns, rainbows, and marshmallow clouds.
 

toledo47

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I don't watch races for celebrities. I watch races for good racing. ARCA puts on a better show than Nationwide series 9 times out of 10. Go check out an ARCA race at Salem, great short track racing, the stands are usually packed at both events each year. Much better than NW IMO

Maybe you guys would like ARCA better if Kyle Busch ran in all of those races. Gotta have the star power I guess
 

StandOnIt

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Meh...not exactly sure NW = ARCA without Cup guys winning every week. I don't think the Cup guys need to disappear from NW completely, but they probably do need to have their involvement limited somewhat. When your "regulars" only win 11% of the races and you have a winless champion, everything isn't exactly unicorns, rainbows, and marshmallow clouds.

It is to some of us, and therin lies the rub. I just want to watch a good race..don't frreakin care who is what, and Nationwide has good racing along with the truck series. If I wanted to deal with team orders and race limiting/fixing I would be a good fan of F-1
 

FLRacingFan

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We already have lower-tier racing without Cup regulars. It's called ARCA.
It doesn't have Cup regulars. Or people in the stands. Or people watching on TV.
It's so awesome!!! Why doesn't Nascar just copy the blazing success that is ARCA? Do they hate puppies?
Hyperbole at its finest.
 

PeopleAreStrange

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Time for some replies...

first have you ever thought about operating a race track and the most basic challenge, getting people to show up??
2, have you thought about TV ratings and keeping the number 2 series on large networks that are able to reach large audiences??
3, have you thought about getting an maintaining sponsorship for the series and all the expenses that go with it??
4, have you thought about why the cup series is the top series in the first place??
5, further have you thought about why the NW series is the number 2 series and how it provides up and commers with exposure and a chance which is the very thing you claim to be seeking??
6, lastly have you thought about how the NW series is different from, ARCA, world of outlaws, or even indy car??

the answer to all these questions is an emphatic NO, based on what I read. you have a fundamental misunderstanding of all these things. The reason NW is the number 2 series is because the cup regulars race there not inspite of it!!! let me ask this question, lets say you are putting on a late model race at a local short track, there are many ways to promote such a race. But lets say you could lure a guy who races in the cup series to race in your late model race?? what effect would having tony stewart or kyle busch have on people coming to the race and further your ability for your promotion of the race to be successful. The very thing the second tier series is, is a chance to the little guy to race with the big names. it helps them get exposure. Even from an up and coming drivers perspective, would you rather race brain scott and eric mcclure or kyle busch and carl edwards. just to say you raced with those guys would be a very cool thing to say. If you can't guage yourself against the best how can you be the best?? NW series gives this opportunity. Instead of being worried to death about cup guys driving in the series, why not instead thank them for using their star power there, and realize without the cup guys driving there its no better than the ARCA series or some other series most people haven't heard of. Nascar is a business thinking about it in terms of some sort of feel good life must be fair to everything mentality isn't reality. I think nascar changing it so cup guys can't win the title is all that can be asked of them. Trying to further isolate cup guys from the series hurts the series and it hurts the ability of the up and coming drivers to shine as a result. If not given the chance to shine on a big stage how can they do a simple thing like attract sponsorship?? The stage is smaller and sponsorship harder for your "little guys" which hurts their chances of making it in cup which is everyone ultimate goal.

1) You promote the race.
2) Yes, and I bring this up at the end of paragraph six (eight if you include my editor's note).
3) Yes; you can read my response the end of paragraph four (six including my editor's note).
4) Sprint Cup is the most technologically advanced stock car series, and was established before the other two series.
5) Nationwide is the second most technologically advanced stock car series; it gets exposure from people who want to watch more racing.
6) Like I said in the previous response, Nationwide is more popular than the other series you mention because it is the second most technologically advanced stock car series, not because of Cup regulars. The other series you mention are less technologically advanced or are completely different.
7 (Paragraph)) Nationwide drivers would get more exposure if they won more often ... too bad Cup regulars take that away from up-and comers.
More exposure = more likely to attract sponsorship.

One big problem with Sprint Cup regulars competing in the two lower series is that they occupy rides. And a ride that is occupied by a Sprint Cup regular in one of the lower series is a ride not available to a driver wanting to compete for points in one of the lower series.

The cars/trucks that the Cup regulars race in the lower series are not full time NW/Truck series teams. They run some of the races in the lower series with a Cup driver, so a NW/Truck series driver racing for points is not missing out on an opportunity to race for points because of Cup drivers racing with those teams.

It doesn't bother me to see Cup drivers in the lower series. I'm also fine with it if there are no Cup driver in the race too.
Some people always complain how boring it is to watch a NW or Truck series race just to see some Cup driver win.
Yet these same people will tell you that a Cup race wasn't boring because they enjoy the good racing further back in the pack, and not just the race for the lead/win.

If that's true, why can't they do that when watching a NW or Truck race that has Cup drivers competing in it without bitching about the Cup drivers stinking up the show?

Joe Gibbs' 54 and Penske's 22 are both full-time Nationwide rides. I talk about how Penske's full-time ride would be great for Sam Hornish in the middle of paragraph four (six including my editor's note).

Valid points, but not one word about sponsors and the packages that are put together by owners to entice sponsors, or who the sponsors want to pay for to drive the car. Bottom line, there is no way you can be successful in Nascar or the Nationwide series without sponsorship. The reality that some have a hard time with is that the word from on high is that the sport is fan driven. The racing is sponsor driven, and fan driven. The teams cut from prize money that comes from Nascar(fans) isn't enough, they have to also have income from sponsors. I don't know the exact percentage, but for teams, sponsors fund much more than prize money. This is big business, has very little in common with stick n ball ways of doing things. Nascar has 15 year old rookies competing with 55 year old veterans, women competing head to head with men. Fan money and sponsorship money make it all work.

If you read the end of paragraph four (six including my editor's note), you will see I talk about sponsors.

We already have lower-tier racing without Cup regulars. It's called ARCA.
It doesn't have Cup regulars. Or people in the stands. Or people watching on TV.
It's so awesome!!! Why doesn't Nascar just copy the blazing success that is ARCA? Do they hate puppies?

ARCA is not as popular as Nationwide or Trucks because they are not as technologically advanced, not because they don't have Cup regulars.
 

StandOnIt

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If you read the end of paragraph four (six including my editor's note), you will see I talk about sponsors.

Your topic sentence is jacked up. If you are writing an opinion paper it shouldn't start out with a question, but with a statement of your position. The title is a bit dramatic (invading), but what the hey, you already turned it in so roll with it. I doubt if your prof knows hardly anything about motorsports.

At any rate, you missed my point. It is not about sponsors leaving, it is exactly the opposite, attracting sponsors. In the business world, teams are selling a racing product to sponsors for money. It is not that sponsors are falling all over themselves to throw advertising money at race teams. They want the most value for their dollar, and they will make deals with the teams on which races they want to sponsor and WHO is available to drive the car. Much easier to sell advertising to a perspective sponsor if you have a winning cup driver agreeing to drive the race. So the advertiser gets to basically rent a car with their logo on it and a team for the week for a certain amount of money. You will pay much more as an advertiser, and for the team, it is an easier sale if your car and driver has a good chance of winning the race. And that is one of the reasons why there are cup drivers in Nationwide...money. Limiting a team on who they can put in their car to make the best deal possible with advertisers is hogwash from a business economic standpoint. Your opinion from the first has always been an emotional argument from an impassioned fan standpoint. You have not looked at the business side of the equation. But it was, after all an opinion paper and a pretty good one.
 

toledo47

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Are you kidding? ARCA uses second-hand race cars from NASCAR.
Nationwide used to use second hand Sprint Cup Cars too before the COT.

Was at Frank Kimmels shop a few years ago, he had a former Matt Kenseth car sitting there that they had just brought in. Still had the full #17 Dewalt paint scheme on it. Matt had ran that car earlier that same year. Its not like the ARCA cars are always really old. When Ty Dillon ran in ARCA they built brand new ARCA cars for his races.
 
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TooSweet

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Half the crew members for ARCA teams are kids in auto tech school working for nothing. The best ARCA driver races an '06 Monte Carlo with Toyota decals on it, and a handful of cars that start the race are already damaged from a previous race. That should tell you all you need to know about ARCA.
 

toledo47

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Half the crew members for ARCA teams are kids in auto tech school working for nothing. The best ARCA driver races an '06 Monte Carlo with Toyota decals on it, and a handful of cars that start the race are already damaged from a previous race. That should tell you all you need to know about ARCA.

The good teams usually have Cup/Nationwide/Truck crews pitting them. Guys that pitted Kimmels car for his win in Elko, MN this year were Johnny Sauters crew wearing their Carolina Nut Co. uniforms
I have not seen any Chevrolets with Toyota decals, so you are just straight up making up stuff. Some of the better teams like Thorsport, Venturini, etc... do have brand new cars made.
The 1 and only thing that has any truth to it in your post was about the damaged cars. There are some guys that run the races and dont intend on being competitive that show up with some dents. Like the #26, #34, etc... The competitive teams show up with pristine cars.

If you dont like ARCA thats fine, but you are spewing nonsense as facts. You don't follow the series obviously, so you have no idea whats going on with it. Just enjoy your races with the celebrity drivers while race fans enjoy those as well as other forms of motorsport.
 
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TooSweet

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The good teams usually have Cup/Nationwide/Truck crews pitting them. Guys that pitted Kimmels car for his win in Elko, MN this year were Johnny Sauters crew wearing their Carolina Nut Co. uniforms
I have not seen any Chevrolets with Toyota decals, so you are just straight up making up stuff. Some of the better teams like Thorsport, Venturini, etc... do have brand new cars made.
The 1 and only thing that has any truth to it in your post was about the damaged cars. There are some guys that run the races and dont intend on being competitive that show up with some dents. Like the #26, #34, etc... The competitive teams show up with pristine cars.

If you dont like ARCA thats fine, but you are spewing nonsense as facts. You don't follow the series obviously, so you have no idea whats going on with it. Just enjoy your races with the celebrity drivers while race fans enjoy those as well as other forms of motorsport.

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But don't worry, Venturini also has a Toyota w/ Chevy decals...

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There are a few dozen more in this thread...

http://www.rubbins-racin.com/forums/showthread.php/38743-The-Worst-Of-ARCA

I never said I don't like ARCA, I just know it's a joke. A buddy of mine worked for a couple teams and I've heard some stories. And don't assume I like races with celebrity drivers; I'm in the opposite camp. I'm completely against Cup drivers in Nationwide, and always have been. I was a big ASA fan in the 90s, which unlike ARCA, was very competitive/close racing.
 

toledo47

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Wow, those Venturini cars are pretty bad. I think they are an official Toyota development team so I guess thats why they are putting those Toyota decals on everything. Pretty surprising and bad though. Definitely gotta admit i was way off with that.
I wasn't into motorsports when ASA was still around (just starting following Cup/Truck/Busch on TV in 2004 and attending in 2005) so i can't comment on it. But ARCA has a lot of competitive races going on. A lot of the ARCA races at NASCAR tracks like Pocono, Kansas, Michigan arent good but neither are the cup races TBH... ARCA races at places like Salem, IN, Elko, MN and other short tracks put on some really great competive events. They usually only show the worst ARCA races on TV each year (the Poconos and Michigans, etc...). I'd pick an ARCA race at an Elko or Salem over Cup/Nationwide at most of their tracks(road courses and short tracks excluded, those are great Cup/NWide races).
 
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TooSweet

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I wasn't into motorsports when ASA was still around (just starting following Cup/Truck/Busch on TV in 2004 and attending in 2005) so i can't comment on it. But ARCA has a lot of competitive races going on. A lot of the ARCA races at NASCAR tracks like Pocono, Kansas, Michigan arent good but neither are the cup races TBH... ARCA races at places like Salem, IN, Elko, MN and other short tracks put on some really great competive events. They usually only show the worst ARCA races on TV each year (the Poconos and Michigans, etc...). I'd pick an ARCA race at an Elko or Salem over Cup/Nationwide at most of their tracks(road courses and short tracks excluded, those are great Cup/NWide races).

Yeah, the only ARCA races I've seen on TV the past few years were at big/boring tracks, I'll give you that. I haven't watched ARCA on a regular basis in years, back when Frank Kimmel always dominated in the #46 Advance Auto Parts car. My buddy who recently worked in ARCA for a couple years just made current-day ARCA sound very janky and unprofessional. I really wish ASA was still around; TNN used to show all the races, and the majority of them were good, hard short track racing at it's finest.

The good old days...

 

toledo47

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Yeah, the only ARCA races I've seen on TV the past few years were at big/boring tracks, I'll give you that. I haven't watched ARCA on a regular basis in years, back when Frank Kimmel always dominated in the #46 Advance Auto Parts car. My buddy who recently worked in ARCA for a couple years just made current-day ARCA sound very janky and unprofessional. I really wish ASA was still around; TNN used to show all the races, and the majority of them were good, hard short track racing at it's finest.

The good old days...



Have heard about the old ASA and TNN days, wish I had discovered racing back then. Sounds like it was great.
I was the first in my family to start watching the races right when I was finishing high school so it was too late to check out stuff like that
.
But yeah, the ARCA races at the big Cup series tracks are mostly garbage. Those short track events are usually something really great. Thats one of the things I really enjoy about the K&N Pro Series. They don't do any tracks above a mile in length(except road courses), so other than NH, Dover, Phoenix and Sonoma they don't use any cup facilities. Just good close short track racing.
 

SlicedBread22

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Have heard about the old ASA and TNN days, wish I had discovered racing back then. Sounds like it was great.
I was the first in my family to start watching the races right when I was finishing high school so it was too late to check out stuff like that
.
But yeah, the ARCA races at the big Cup series tracks are mostly garbage. Those short track events are usually something really great. Thats one of the things I really enjoy about the K&N Pro Series. They don't do any tracks above a mile in length(except road courses), so other than NH, Dover, Phoenix and Sonoma they don't use any cup facilities. Just good close short track racing.
I love watching the K&N races... those guys are the definition of short track beatin' and bangin'.
 
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Kyle18fan

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Half the crew members for ARCA teams are kids in auto tech school working for nothing. The best ARCA driver races an '06 Monte Carlo with Toyota decals on it, and a handful of cars that start the race are already damaged from a previous race. That should tell you all you need to know about ARCA.
I was looking at the cars last year at Phoenix, there were about three decent cars in the whole group.
 

ToyYoda

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About the closest thing I've seen to it in Nationwide is when they were stickering up old Monte Carlos as Impalas a few years ago.
 
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