Start and Parks

Zerkfitting

Zerkfitting

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There was a time that I considered start and parks a detriment to the sport. But it occurs to me that no matter what position NASCAR pays to, there will still be small teams competing for a part of the purse. Start and Parks are the last remnant of the beginning of NASCAR. NASCAR guarantied payment for a number of cars (I don’t know when 43 cars became the standard). NASCAR is sharing enough of the purse so some teams can make a living participating in NASCAR.

I now think “Who cares”. Start and parks show up and stay out of the way. It is pretty rare that one of them causes an incident that affects the race outcome. I don’t know how many people make a living at the small teams but at least they are working.
 
Zerkfitting said:
There was a time that I considered start and parks a detriment to the sport. But it occurs to me that no matter what position NASCAR pays to, there will still be small teams competing for a part of the purse. Start and Parks are the last remnant of the beginning of NASCAR. NASCAR guarantied payment for a number of cars (I don’t know when 43 cars became the standard). NASCAR is sharing enough of the purse so some teams can make a living participating in NASCAR.

I now think “Who cares”. Start and parks show up and stay out of the way. It is pretty rare that one of them causes an incident that affects the race outcome. I don’t know how many people make a living at the small teams but at least they are working.
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These guys have everything in place to go racing ,but a sponsor . If they weren't there , it would be impossible to get a new team up and running fast enough to take advantage of a new opportunity. If the economy were to improve tomorrow , they could pick up sponsorship in a hurry .
 
I think start n' parks are nothing but an insult to the sport. Teams are working 7 days a week 365 days a year to put competitive cars on the track so fans can enjoy the sport they love. Then you have these guys that put nothing in showing up to steal some prize money. They have no intentions of being competitive or getting competitive.They don't race. They bring no crew members, buy one or two sets of tires and use old equipment. Joe Needacheck has pocketed millions of dollars the past couple years, Phil Parsons team millions of dollars, Rick Ware millions of dollars and the list is big, by PARKING.James Finch has and others have lost millions by RACING.NASCAR needs to wise up, cut the field and give it to the guys that need and earn it. I'm sure James Finch could use a couple million dollars to make his organization better and put back in the sport.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I think start n' parks are nothing but an insult to the sport. Teams are working 7 days a week 365 days a year to put competitive cars on the track so fans can enjoy the sport they love. Then you have these guys that put nothing in showing up to steal some prize money. They have no intentions of being competitive or getting competitive.They don't race. They bring no crew members, buy one or two sets of tires and use old equipment. Joe Needacheck has pocketed millions of dollars the past couple years, Phil Parsons team millions of dollars, Rick Ware millions of dollars and the list is big, by PARKING.James Finch has and others have lost millions by RACING.NASCAR needs to wise up, cut the field and give it to the guys that need and earn it. I'm sure James Finch could use a couple million dollars to make his organization better and put back in the sport.
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I agree 100%

They show up to get money and never intend on racing. How many of these "teams" started out as a S&P and became a real race team?
 
so is the answer to cut the limit on the number of teams an owner can bring to the track?

multi-car mega race teams dominate by taking all the huge sponsor dollars and developing the best teams (walmart size) those resources can buy (new york yankees).

how many cars could hendrick, rousch, gibbs, etc. support? is a monopoly (OPEC) a good thing?

how does nascar provide an opportunity for a new team owner to break in to the big leagues?

i don't have the answers. but i think the questions should be considered.
 
S&Pers will always be around if the money is right. I tend to agree with if the nix the top 35 rule, there will be more of the same. Y'all have been saying that the purse should be lower, much lower for those who finish at the end, but my idea is to lower the entire purse. This would not only drive away some of the big time sponsors, but would at the same time, allow more of the smaller sponsors to join in. Why, because with less money for the mega teams, they would lose their advantage and that would give a big incentive for smaller teams to strive for bigger results. Just an idea. The more money involved, the more technology needed, and without that money, mega teams could lose their advantage.
 
Start and Park teams don't want to become better, simple as that. Atleast the Mega teams want to race. Why don't they want to become better?

Dale Earnhardt Jr has completed 8209 laps in 2012 and has earned $4,462,755 for car owner Rick Hendricks. Rounded up that's $544 a lap.

Joe Nemechek (Needacheck) has raced 1,375 laps and has earned $2,131,974 for Nemco Motorsports. Rounded down that's $1,550 a lap. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Love of the sport? Want to race? Nope, $$$.
 
They need to make a new rule, first car out of the race has to face immediate inspection. If the car shows no signs of anything wrong with it that you strip them of the money they were gonna make. Even if they still play games they atleast will have a lot of incentive to not pull into the garage 5 laps into the race.

I also have to question some of these drivers that are taking rides for start and parks. It seems like its pretty much giving up on your competitive career. Joe Numbnuts has run his team for years now and is still playing the same games. JJ Yeley used to be an up and coming driver who took Bobby Labontes place at Joe Gibbs a few years back. Now seeing him pull in after 10 laps makes me think what a waste of talent.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I think start n' parks are nothing but an insult to the sport. Teams are working 7 days a week 365 days a year to put competitive cars on the track so fans can enjoy the sport they love. Then you have these guys that put nothing in showing up to steal some prize money. They have no intentions of being competitive or getting competitive.They don't race. They bring no crew members, buy one or two sets of tires and use old equipment. Joe Needacheck has pocketed millions of dollars the past couple years, Phil Parsons team millions of dollars, Rick Ware millions of dollars and the list is big, by PARKING.James Finch has and others have lost millions by RACING.NASCAR needs to wise up, cut the field and give it to the guys that need and earn it. I'm sure James Finch could use a couple million dollars to make his organization better and put back in the sport.
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This post reminds me of the millions of people on welfare stealing the money from those of us who work our butts off. However, that's not the point.

It's one of those things that we can talk about it all we want, but if we were put in the situation...we'd do the same thing in a heartbeat. If you could show up to a race for a few hours and collect $70,000+, I can bet that you all would, because I know that I would.
 
28 cars have started all 29 races this year. 80 cars have attempted races. I find that alarming.

And Yaley is keeping his name out there for a reason. Ever heard the old saying that goes out of sight, out of mind?

Joe Nemechek is 10th in points in Nationwide so some of that start and park money is paying an under sponsored cars pit crew and other bills.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
Then you have these guys that put nothing in showing up to steal some prize money.
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I am not a fan of the S&P situation but they are most certainly not stealing...

Brent said:
This post reminds me of the millions of people on welfare stealing the money from those of us who work our butts off. However, that's not the point.
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Also, not accurate, IMO. These teams do have to build or buy racecars, they have to transport the cars to the track and they have to consider the fact that if they don't qualify for the starting grid, they go home pretty much empty- handed. Hardly welfare.

Smoke14 said:
28 cars have started all 29 races this year. 80 cars have attempted races. I find that alarming
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That's a disturbing statistic.

Smoke14 said:
Joe Nemechek is 10th in points in Nationwide so some of that start and park money is paying an under sponsored cars pit crew and other bills.
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There ya go!!
 
anyone who thinks these guys are S&Ping to make millions are straight up idiots. Yeah I said it. Joe Nemecheck is S&P to fund his organization. The organization that runs both his limited cup program and his full time NNS program.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
Start and Park teams don't want to become better, simple as that. Atleast the Mega teams want to race. Why don't they want to become better?

Dale Earnhardt Jr has completed 8209 laps in 2012 and has earned $4,462,755 for car owner Rick Hendricks. Rounded up that's $544 a lap.

Joe Nemechek (Needacheck) has raced 1,375 laps and has earned $2,131,974 for Nemco Motorsports. Rounded down that's $1,550 a lap. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Love of the sport? Want to race? Nope, $$$.
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Are you kidding me? Mega teams and drivers like Dale Earnhardt Jr have multi billion dollar corporations backing them. S&Ps don't. The only income a S&P team has is the income they get from the race track. The same income they use to put their cars and teams back on the track the next week, in hopes for getting enough together to run a full race.

Joe Nemechek has started 26 races this year. That means he averages about 53 laps a race. S&Pers usually are out before lap 25. So that tells me that Joe was able to get some money together here and there to run a few full races this year. I wonder where that came from?
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Are you kidding me? Mega teams and drivers like Dale Earnhardt Jr have multi billion dollar corporations backing them. S&Ps don't. The only income a S&P team has is the income they get from the race track. The same income they use to put their cars and teams back on the track the next week, in hopes for getting enough together to run a full race.

Joe Nemechek has started 26 races this year. That means he averages about 53 laps a race. S&Pers usually are out before lap 25. So that tells me that Joe was able to get some money together here and there to run a few full races this year. I wonder where that came from?
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Are you kidding me??? Lol. We're talking return vs. investment. The lap count is easy to figure out. If they can gain a couple positions by going back out they return to the track. That's why it'll say OFF instead of OUT. I realize big teams have multi million dollar sponsors, they also spend that multi million dollars to compete. Some articles on start & parks have a average race weekend where the expenses are below $8,000 a weekend. (Motor time, tires, entry fees included, travel included) Even at $10,000 a weekend that's only $360,000 to race a year with over 2.5 million returned. The big teams don't come close to that percentage. Are the big teams making more? Absolutely. But they're spending a lot more to.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
So that tells me that Joe was able to get some money together here and there to run a few full races this year. I wonder where that came from?
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but how many teams other than Joe have EVER even attempted to run an entire race? Something else I don't understand about these guys is why they pull in so fast? I mean at least run until the first pit stop and stay on track as long as you can.
 
Stewart Fan said:
but how many teams other than Joe have EVER even attempted to run an entire race? Something else I don't understand about these guys is why they pull in so fast? I mean at least run until the first pit stop and stay on track as long as you can.
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They can't make pit stops cause they bring no equipment or crew to perform them.
 
IIRC the network contracts state 43 cars will start otherwise the payment is reduced. So na$car has created their own monster. They've advertised the best 43 drivers yada, yada, yada for years in the ads. The reduction in payment must be more than the payout to the S&P teams because you'll have better luck getting a pork chop from a pack of pit bulls than a buck out of the brain.
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep. I think they can even use the same tires the next time Goodyear specifies that spec. if they keep lap count low. I have a feeling some of these S&P's get their guys to work for next to nothing and then pocket most of the purse money.
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They only buy one set for practice, qualifying and race (Lol) I think Goodyear still collects and drills all the tires used though. They have everything figured out though. It's a great business model I'llgive them that. I'd never call them racers though;)
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep. I think they can even use the same tires the next time Goodyear specifies that spec. if they keep lap count low. I have a feeling some of these S&P's get their guys to work for next to nothing and then pocket most of the purse money.
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Got a link to back up your statement?
 
FenderBumper said:
there it is again. Do you happen to have a link to the contract to prove that statement?
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And if you get that link pass it on to me. I want to read that too. That's the second time this week that I've heard that the television contract calls for a 43 car field but other than some forum claims I've never seen any proof of that.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And if you get that link pass it on to me. I want to read that too. That's the second time this week that I've heard that the television contract calls for a 43 car field but other than some forum claims I've never seen any proof of that.
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That's all I wanted. Apparently my request ticked him off.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And if you get that link pass it on to me. I want to read that too. That's the second time this week that I've heard that the television contract calls for a 43 car field but other than some forum claims I've never seen any proof of that.
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I googled that the other day and found nothing that supported it. I had heard that before and I wanna say it was Larry Mac on a Fox telecast, but again everything I seen said that wasn't the case. I tried DP:(
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I googled that the other day and found nothing that supported it. I had heard that before and I wanna say it was Larry Mac on a Fox telecast, but again everything I seen said that wasn't the case. I tried DP:(
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No big deal. I've looked for it too and haven't found it other than on threads in forums. Fender had already beat me to it but every time that I see that statement I always ask to see the link. One of these days someone will surprise me and send me the actual television contract.
 
Wouldn't it be interesting if the top 10 teams had to operate within the same budget as the bottom 10? I wonder what the Chase would look like then?
 
I think several of those teams would run entire races and try to compete if they had more sponsorship money. They aren't all out there to run around for a lap and go home.
 
HUTfan said:
I think several of those teams would run entire races and try to compete if they had more sponsorship money. They aren't all out there to run around for a lap and go home.
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They are a dying breed . The last of the true independents . They remind me of the Dave Marcus' and J D MacDuffies from the old days .Just tryin to make a living in Nascar. Now it has become a sport for millionaires like polo.
 
They are a dying breed . The last of the true independents .
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Add Robby Gordon to that group, his team only went to selected races and did the start and park deal sometimes. I don't think I've noticed his team this season. A half dozen teams race over half the cars and supply a number of other teams.
 
Phil Parsons on start and parks.

From 2009: http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/features/04/15/inside.nascar.start.park/index.html

Phil Parsons, who won the first Busch Series race held at Bristol Motor Speedway in the spring of 1982, also the series' inaugural season, was one of the first in the most recent era to field cars that would be considered "field fillers."
Parsons said he began thinking about providing what amounted to extra cars for the Nationwide Series in 2007, when there began a serious concern about the health of the series for 2008. In fact, only 42 cars started the second race of the 2008 season, at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, including two fielded by MSRP Motorsports, the team Parsons operates with partner Randy Humphrey.
"Honest to goodness, that whole program started out as a service, to keep the Nationwide Series from having short fields," Parsons said. "Other people looked at it and it evolved and by the end of last season, we were back to having 50 cars at the race track."
In that vein, one thing NASCAR did dispel is the misconception that there is language in the current TV contracts for the three national tours that demands 43-car fields in Cup and Nationwide, and a 36-truck field in the Truck Series, with penalties resulting if full fields aren't provided.
"It is NASCAR's responsibility to have a reasonable field of cars for each of its events," NASCAR said in a statement. "However, there is no language in the TV contracts that demands what the size of the fields must be."
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