State of the sport

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deircr3

Guest
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying? Back in the day you were able to find lots of merchandise at stores. Now I go into Target, Walmart, JC Penny's and even flea-markets and there's hardly anything. My dad owns Daytona 2000 the largest Nascar store in the world and are sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago. Looks like we will have to close the store down. MA went bankrupt and now Press Pass is leaving Nascar. Tracks are taking seats away. Do you think it will ever get back to the level of 2001-2006?
 
People don't like cars anymore, simple as that.
 
Too many changes over the last 8 years have basically run off a large segment of the fan base.
 
deircr3 said:
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying? Back in the day you were able to find lots of merchandise at stores. Now I go into Target, Walmart, JC Penny's and even flea-markets and there's hardly anything. My dad owns Daytona 2000 the largest Nascar store in the world and are sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago. Looks like we will have to close the store down. MA went bankrupt and now Press Pass is leaving Nascar. Tracks are taking seats away. Do you think it will ever get back to the level of 2001-2006?
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The on-track product is better than it has ever been, the new Chase is possibly the single greatest thing NASCAR has done in my lifetime and more eyeballs will be exposed to the Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Championship thanks to the new television deal with NBC.
 
deircr3 said:
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying? Back in the day you were able to find lots of merchandise at stores. Now I go into Target, Walmart, JC Penny's and even flea-markets and there's hardly anything. My dad owns Daytona 2000 the largest Nascar store in the world and are sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago. Looks like we will have to close the store down. MA went bankrupt and now Press Pass is leaving Nascar. Tracks are taking seats away. Do you think it will ever get back to the level of 2001-2006?
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I don't think it's on life support, but I don't think you'll ever see the sport return to late 90's-early 00's levels of popularity either. I think it's just settled back to the niche sport it was before the brief national boom.
 
deircr3 said:
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying? Back in the day you were able to find lots of merchandise at stores. Now I go into Target, Walmart, JC Penny's and even flea-markets and there's hardly anything. My dad owns Daytona 2000 the largest Nascar store in the world and are sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago. Looks like we will have to close the store down. MA went bankrupt and now Press Pass is leaving Nascar. Tracks are taking seats away. Do you think it will ever get back to the level of 2001-2006?
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I think you've answered your own question. i.e. sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago, Tracks are taking seats away There are less and less merchandise haulers at the tracks too. That sounds like it is on life support to me. I don't think it will come back to it's hay day in my life time.
 
deircr3 said:
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying?
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After following this season for the first time, I honestly don't see why anyone WOULD follow NASCAR, as it seems they do everything they can to eliminate driver skill, and winning is secondary to simply finishing.

A driver builds up a lead? NASCAR re-start policy will eliminate it...sucks to be you lead driver!

A driver builds up a HUGE lead and actually laps cars!? Nope. Still doesn't matter. NASCAR re-start policy pushes lapped cars back to the rear so those closest to the leader won't have to go through the trouble of passing them. STILL sucks to be you lead driver!

Car crashed into the wall and is little more than a rolling debris hazard? Let's keep that baby on the track! Thanks to the NASCAR scoring system, it's better for that team to keep that piece of junk on the track, where it will have to be constantly dodged by the rest of the field, and will invariably cause unnecessary cautions due to debris, or damage another vehicle due to accident or said debris impacts.

A driver wins more races than any other driver in the field? NASCAR doesn't care. Winning doesn't matter. Points do. NASCAR point system says two 19th place finishes are worth more than a victory, so drivers with wins will be on equal footing with LOSERS if they get wrecked out in later races due to no fault of their own. Sucks to be you winners!

A driver wins more races than any other driver and scores more points than any other driver? So what, none of that will matter once the chase starts. Matter of fact, the driver that wins the first race of the year can pretty much ignore the next TWENTY FIVE RACES because none of his effort will mean anything once the chase starts. A driver could literally win 25 races before the chase and STILL "lose" the championship despite winning more than half the races during the season. NASCAR, apparently, REALLY hates winning.

Even when a driver does make "the chase", NASCAR says that driver can be taken out by his peers should that driver actually prove to be faster than they are, and the race is getting close to finishing. "Rubbin's racin'"....and apparently NASCAR can't tell the difference between "rubbin'" and "wreckin'".


Perhaps, like me, fans and potential fans alike turn away from the sport due to the ridiculous way the sanctioning body runs their races AND their seasons.

/shrug

To each their own.
 
Einarr Thoreson said:
After following this season for the first time, I honestly don't see why anyone WOULD follow NASCAR, as it seems they do everything they can to eliminate driver skill, and winning is secondary to simply finishing.

A driver builds up a lead? NASCAR re-start policy will eliminate it...sucks to be you lead driver!

A driver builds up a HUGE lead and actually laps cars!? Nope. Still doesn't matter. NASCAR re-start policy pushes lapped cars back to the rear so those closest to the leader won't have to go through the trouble of passing them. STILL sucks to be you lead driver!

Car crashed into the wall and is little more than a rolling debris hazard? Let's keep that baby on the track! Thanks to the NASCAR scoring system, it's better for that team to keep that piece of junk on the track, where it will have to be constantly dodged by the rest of the field, and will invariably cause unnecessary cautions due to debris, or damage another vehicle due to accident or said debris impacts.

A driver wins more races than any other driver in the field? NASCAR doesn't care. Winning doesn't matter. Points do. NASCAR point system says two 19th place finishes are worth more than a victory, so drivers with wins will be on equal footing with LOSERS if they get wrecked out in later races due to no fault of their own. Sucks to be you winners!

A driver wins more races than any other driver and scores more points than any other driver? So what, none of that will matter once the chase starts. Matter of fact, the driver that wins the first race of the year can pretty much ignore the next TWENTY FIVE RACES because none of his effort will mean anything once the chase starts. A driver could literally win 25 races before the chase and STILL "lose" the championship despite winning more than half the races during the season. NASCAR, apparently, REALLY hates winning.

Even when a driver does make "the chase", NASCAR says that driver can be taken out by his peers should that driver actually prove to be faster than they are, and the race is getting close to finishing. "Rubbin's racin'"....and apparently NASCAR can't tell the difference between "rubbin'" and "wreckin'".


Perhaps, like me, fans and potential fans alike turn away from the sport due to the ridiculous way the sanctioning body runs their races AND their seasons.

/shrug

To each their own.
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After half of the first sentence I'm confused as to why you are even on here. This is a Nascar Forum on a racing board. You're not a race fan so are you on here just to bait us? If that's it and I believe that it is, then see ya.
 
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Johali said:
After half of the first sentence I'm confused as to why you are even on here. This is a Nascar Forum on a racing board. You're not a race fan so are you on here just to bait us? If that's it and I believe that it is, then see ya.
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Did I not list reasonable issues that I have with the sanctioning body? Is it not possible that other fans might have those same issues with the sport?


The only reason I came to this forum is because it is the LEAST dead forum addressing NASCAR issues.

Perhaps it is the reception received from rude individuals, like yourself, anytime somebody mentions anything you don't agree with about NASCAR that has kept new fans from enjoying the sport?

Regardless, I can see you, and the majority on this forum, have no desire to actually communicate and share thoughts other than "that was great!!!!!!"

And I thought the F1 fans were fanatics.....
 
Einarr Thoreson said:
Did I not list reasonable issues that I have with the sanctioning body? Is it not possible that other fans might have those same issues with the sport?


The only reason I came to this forum is because it is the LEAST dead forum addressing NASCAR issues.

Perhaps it is the reception received from rude individuals, like yourself, anytime somebody mentions anything you don't agree with about NASCAR that has kept new fans from enjoying the sport?

Regardless, I can see you, and the majority on this forum, have no desire to actually communicate and share thoughts other than "that was great!!!!!!"

And I thought the F1 fans were fanatics.....
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No.
Stale bait and stale accusations. I don't do pissing contests, see ya.
 
Einarr Thoreson said:
Did I not list reasonable issues that I have with the sanctioning body? Is it not possible that other fans might have those same issues with the sport?


The only reason I came to this forum is because it is the LEAST dead forum addressing NASCAR issues.

Perhaps it is the reception received from rude individuals, like yourself, anytime somebody mentions anything you don't agree with about NASCAR that has kept new fans from enjoying the sport?

Regardless, I can see you, and the majority on this forum, have no desire to actually communicate and share thoughts other than "that was great!!!!!!"

And I thought the F1 fans were fanatics.....
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I always liked the term "elitist snobs" ................. it just has a certain ring to it ;)
 
Einarr Thoreson said:
After following this season for the first time, I honestly don't see why anyone WOULD follow NASCAR, as it seems they do everything they can to eliminate driver skill, and winning is secondary to simply finishing.
Click to expand...

Okay, it's a slow evening; I'll play.

A driver builds up a lead? NASCAR re-start policy will eliminate it...sucks to be you lead driver!
Click to expand...

Is there another racing series that maintains a lead on restarts? Indy tried it several years ago with a fancy system of timing lights during cautions. They couldn't make it work. Sure, there are off-road and cross-country series that use staggered starts and individual timing, but no series that runs on closed tracks / courses I know of. Feel free to enlighten me.

A driver builds up a HUGE lead and actually laps cars!? Nope. Still doesn't matter. NASCAR re-start policy pushes lapped cars back to the rear so those closest to the leader won't have to go through the trouble of passing them. STILL sucks to be you lead driver!
Click to expand...

Why should lead lap cars have to pass lap-down cars AGAIN? They've already passed them once.

Car crashed into the wall and is little more than a rolling debris hazard? Let's keep that baby on the track! Thanks to the NASCAR scoring system, it's better for that team to keep that piece of junk on the track, where it will have to be constantly dodged by the rest of the field, and will invariably cause unnecessary cautions due to debris, or damage another vehicle due to accident or said debris impacts.
Click to expand...

NASCAR has a minimum speed rule. If a repaired car can't maintain that speed, it's black flagged. I've seen the field have to work it's way around slower, undamaged cars, especially on plate tracks. Indeed, I've seen damaged cars pass undamaged ones. And weren't you just complaining about how NASCAR puts lap-down cars to the rear? You do know that those lap-down cars are usually the slow ones, right? In your last paragraph, you wanted the slow cars mixed in with the leaders; now you don't want them on the track at all. Make up your mind.

A driver wins more races than any other driver in the field? NASCAR doesn't care. Winning doesn't matter. Points do. NASCAR point system says two 19th place finishes are worth more than a victory, so drivers with wins will be on equal footing with LOSERS if they get wrecked out in later races due to no fault of their own. Sucks to be you winners!
Click to expand...

Huh? NASCAR introduced the Chase format to emphasize winning over points racing. With the changes for 2014, winning counts more than it ever has before. But I'm open to suggestion; what series has a season-long scoring system you like? Last time I checked, none of the other major series use any system other than a straight-out 'most points wins'.

A driver wins more races than any other driver and scores more points than any other driver? So what, none of that will matter once the chase starts. Matter of fact, the driver that wins the first race of the year can pretty much ignore the next TWENTY FIVE RACES because none of his effort will mean anything once the chase starts. A driver could literally win 25 races before the chase and STILL "lose" the championship despite winning more than half the races during the season. NASCAR, apparently, REALLY hates winning.
Click to expand...

Yep, you got me there. That's one for you. I don't like that much myself.

Even when a driver does make "the chase", NASCAR says that driver can be taken out by his peers should that driver actually prove to be faster than they are, and the race is getting close to finishing. "Rubbin's racin'"....and apparently NASCAR can't tell the difference between "rubbin'" and "wreckin'".
Click to expand...

That argument is as old as NASCAR. It also isn't limited to NASCAR, as ARCA, several now-defunct series, and most local, non-NASCAR tracks have the same attitude. If you don't want to see rubbin' / wreckin', I suggest you stick to open-wheeled forms of racing, although there are times when they may test your patience too.

Perhaps, like me, fans and potential fans alike turn away from the sport due to the ridiculous way the sanctioning body runs their races AND their seasons.
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That's your call. If you're not enjoying it, do / watch something else. I'm sure you'll understand if none us follow you.
 
There has been a huge drop in the amount of merchandise in stores compared to what they carried 5-10 years ago. Walmart and Kmart used to have a wide variety of Nascar related items. They had hats, t shirts, stickers, keychains, coolers, backpacks, and a huge amount of diecast (cars and haulers) from Racing Champions and some of the lower-end versions of Action and TC in 1/24 and 1/64 scale. Now the only Nascar items to be found at Walmart are a very few 1/64 size cars and haulers in the Matchbox aisle. Kmart is better, they actually have some different shirts and a few hats for the bigger name drivers (such as Dale Jr, Gordon, Johnson, KyBusch, Harvick, Stewart). The Kmart selection of sports related apparel in general is much better than Walmart, actually. They also have a better selection of football and baseball stuff.

There also used to be a local store that specialized in racing merchandise but it closed down several years ago. I know people order lots of stuff online anymore, but the overall decrease in the availability and popularity of the merch says a lot, and what it says isn't good.
 
So the state of Nascar is dying because dad's store went kaput? Guess he should have invested in media stocks. People are watching races in case you haven't noticed, long term contracts have been signed for the next ten years. I think we will see increased media coverage world wide. Scalpers at the tracks jacking up lodging, parking and anything else they can get away with is hurting attendance and it will probably get worse before it gets better.
 
I grew up watching this sport and now I cover this sport and get to watch races for a living. It's a shame some think the sport's on "life support". There's no evidence to support that. The television ratings have held steady the last three or four years. Some weeks they're down, other weeks, they're up. But people don't seem to talk about television ratings when they're up because it doesn't suit the "gloom and doom", "everybody freak out, NASCAR's dying" narrative that some people (including the evil twin that shares my account :p) have.

As for attendance, MLB attendance is down. NBA attendance is down. In fact, if you watch NFL games on a regular basis, you'll see a ton of "sold out" games that feature mostly-empty stadiums -- usually in Washington, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, San Diego, St. Louis and Oakland.
 
Einarr Thoreson said:
Did I not list reasonable issues that I have with the sanctioning body? Is it not possible that other fans might have those same issues with the sport?

The only reason I came to this forum is because it is the LEAST dead forum addressing NASCAR issues.

Perhaps it is the reception received from rude individuals, like yourself, anytime somebody mentions anything you don't agree with about NASCAR that has kept new fans from enjoying the sport?

Regardless, I can see you, and the majority on this forum, have no desire to actually communicate and share thoughts other than "that was great!!!!!!"

And I thought the F1 fans were fanatics.....
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You've been here a week and participated in all of three topics, and during the off-season to boot. You sure that's enough exposure to form an opinion of an entire forum?

No one's forcing you to be here. You've said a couple of times that the 2014 season was your first and probably your last. If that's the case, and with all those complaints you have about NASCAR, why did you seek out a forum in the first place? "Hey, I actively dislike college sports; where can I find a good NCAA forum to join?"
 
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Oops … it looks like something backfired on this thread … LMAO …
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Attendance and ratings for baseball games are down. I hereby declare baseball dead. :sarcasm:

Certain posts in this discussion defy logic.
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I don't think that Nascar is dead, but Brian is trying to put a hurting on it. I don't believe that this chase or the previous version is the way to go, but it does seem like we are stuck with this basic version for a while. The fad followers are fading away for something new and Nascar is going to have to adjust to it. I'll probably keep recording and watching what interests me. Maybe inthe future I'll have to also go look for something that will hold my interest.
 
In a sense, haven't all sports been 'sanitized', to a certain extent? To me, the sports I grew up with, aren't around any longer.

Baseball has become so long and drawn out that I'd rather watch grass grow. This business of the batter stepping out of the box
after every pitch is boring. Get in there and take your swings. Scratch, tug, pull, or whatever on your on time. You don't have to dig
a hole clear to China to be able to swing a bat.

Football is getting 'rule by referee'. Don't do this, can't do that, don't touch this player, etc.

What happened --- the sports have changed because the spectators have changed, because the players have changed.
I don't see sports going away --- they'll just keep evolving into what we, the spectator wants to see.

NASCAR may be down, but I doubt it will go away entirely. The only thing that will kill our sport is money --- too much, or too little.
 
deircr3 said:
Do you think Nascar is on life support, getting better or dying? Back in the day you were able to find lots of merchandise at stores. Now I go into Target, Walmart, JC Penny's and even flea-markets and there's hardly anything. My dad owns Daytona 2000 the largest Nascar store in the world and are sales are down by 55% from 10 years ago. Looks like we will have to close the store down. MA went bankrupt and now Press Pass is leaving Nascar. Tracks are taking seats away. Do you think it will ever get back to the level of 2001-2006?
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Our mile track in Phoenix is adding more seats................ bless their hearts :)
 
Kyle18fan said:
Their tickets are dirt cheap .......................... 7 dollars for a truck race, I will pay twice that any day
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What about Cup tickets? Just wondering as I'm thinking about going to a race this year, not phoenix as its over 2k miles from me but I just want a ballpark of what a ticket costs now a days.

Only reason I said that is because the ISC is obsessed with increasing ticket prices...
 
RCM88x said:
What about Cup tickets? Just wondering as I'm thinking about going to a race this year, not phoenix as its over 2k miles from me but I just want a ballpark of what a ticket costs now a days.

Only reason I said that is because the ISC is obsessed with increasing ticket prices...
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Check the web sites for the tracks. Yes, some are expensive --- depends on where you want to sit.
 
NASCAR is headed the way of Boxing and Horse Racing. Those sports are still there, but just not as prevalent as they used to be.
 
RCM88x said:
What about Cup tickets? Just wondering as I'm thinking about going to a race this year, not phoenix as its over 2k miles from me but I just want a ballpark of what a ticket costs now a days.

Only reason I said that is because the ISC is obsessed with increasing ticket prices...
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You can go to any track website and look up prices.

ISC owned Martinsvile Speedway sells tickets in turn #1 for as little as $15 for the Cup race. $85 is their top ticket price. That's still a bargain for the race that is put in there. I pay $75 for my seat there.

SMI owned Bristol Motor Speedway sells comparable tickets for $135. The cheapest ticket @ Bristol is $74.

SMI or ISC. You can pay a little or a lot. It all depends on where you want to sit and what you are willing to pay. IMO the prices for a NASCAR race ticket is one of the best buys in all of sports for the experience provided. Ticket prices factor very little into our budget for a race. The cost of fuel towing the RV for the trip to the track, the lodging around the track, the food around the track..... These all come at a much higher cost than the ticket price.
 
As far as the threads original topic. The sate of the sport is the same for me as it ever was. Loving every minute of it. NBC and FOX just got done paying $8.2 BILLION for a 10 year contract to televise the sport I love. That's crazy money! TV's not leaving the sport. Fan numbers have dropped back to where they we're a dozen or so year ago. That's a great thing for me as an attending fan. They're replacing seats with more comfortable seating. Improving amenities in and around the tracks that I attend. Concession lines are shorter. Same with the restrooms. The racing was great this past season and looks to improve with the upcoming changes. I think things are looking pretty damn good.
 
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RCM88x said:
What about Cup tickets? Just wondering as I'm thinking about going to a race this year, not phoenix as its over 2k miles from me but I just want a ballpark of what a ticket costs now a days.

Only reason I said that is because the ISC is obsessed with increasing ticket prices...
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Our cup tickets cost us 35.00 each for the last race at Phoenix, truck was 7.00 and nationwide were 15.00 ..................... best to buy early online to get a decent deal
 
RCM88x said:
What about Cup tickets? Just wondering as I'm thinking about going to a race this year, not phoenix as its over 2k miles from me but I just want a ballpark of what a ticket costs now a days.

Only reason I said that is because the ISC is obsessed with increasing ticket prices...
Click to expand...

I can usually count on something around $120. A lot depends on where you want to sit.
 
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