Sterile language required by NASCAR

H

Handymac

Guest
Hi, fellow fans. I am quite peeved at the current situation regarding language, actions, and the drivers/crews. I have been a NASCAR fan for a long time and still remember when drivers could say what was on their mind---with reasonable manners, of course. Things have gotten to the point I seldom watch driver interviews any more. They can only say certain things---and better not get mad---or even too happy and slip.

An idea struck me today as I read of Helton's warning to the drivers again not to curse, even with the broadcast delay. I have no problem with cleaning up language, but a slip because of extreme anger or joy is not worth points---jack up the fine--ok, make a list of things they can say---just get some order and rules.

I posted on Marty's site on the NASCAR official website and could not type in the word 'crap'! My father was a minister and my mother a school teacher and neither objected to that word!

Ok, the idea. Many drivers are under extra stress because of The Chase, their position in the rest of the field, and just lousy racing luck. Couple those with the expectations of sponsors---which will increase next year due to The Chase---and testing, more races, and the requirements to be fan friendly that they don't need more unnecessary rules and regulations.

So, if King Mike is not forthcoming with a set of guidelines as to language, what is acceptable and what is not---this IS his problem since he started issuing point reductions---what if all--or most---of the drivers simply said the same thing to every interview question? Or a stock set of answers---the same thing--with applicable sponsor labels---to the standard questions?

I have a feeling most of the pit reporters are sympathetic to the stress on everyone and would tend to cooperate. They already do--witness the fact they did not pursue Smoke after yesterdays crash.

That, along with fan outrage, might force Helton and the head shed into some kind of workable solution.

It is their game, but if no one plays, it hurts them more.

Nuff soapbox. Sorry for the rant---but the crud---I could use that one on the website---is getting to be too much.

Mac
 
First, let me welcome you aboard, Handymac!

Now, as to your post, I personally didn't have a problem with the 'language' that Dale Jr. used and was subsequently fined for. I had a good laugh when I read my local sports page this morning. It was an article where Tony Stewart is NOT happy with TPTB (the powers that be) in Nascar deducting points from a driver because of something that they said. Well, here is the article:
Posted on Sun, Oct. 10, 2004

Stewart curses NASCAR political correctness

By Rick Minter

Cox News Service


KANSAS CITY, Kan. - The old, outspoken Tony Stewart showed up at Kansas Speedway on Saturday morning, ready to pick a fight with political correctness.

After being quiet during the first three races of the Chase to the Nextel Cup championship, Stewart fired an array of verbal barbs, focusing on the penalty NASCAR handed Dale Earnhardt Jr. after the use of profanity last Sunday in victory lane at Talladega.

"What happened last week was highly blown out of proportion," Stewart said. "We're starting to nit-pick and scrutinize way too much in this series.

"Since when does something that somebody says have an effect on winning the championship? The last time I checked we had freedom of speech. Since when did that change?"

Stewart said Earnhardt's slip didn't affect the outcome of the race, so he shouldn't have been docked 25 points.

"It's been totally unfair to him and his race team what has been assessed of him," said Stewart, who gained ground in the points race because of the penalty. Stewart is sixth in the standings, 139 points behind leader Kurt Busch, heading into today's Banquet 400.

Stewart said he is worried about the growing emphasis on political correctness and NASCAR's increasing control of all aspects of the sport.

"Where is this process going to stop?" he said. "What's going to be the next thing? If we don't show up to the car for practice on time are we going to lose 25 points? Where is it realistically going to end?"

The 2002 Cup champion said that even though he has been penalized frequently in the past for his behavior on and off the track, none of his punishments were as severe.

"The situations I've been in in the past were different," Stewart said. "I've never been punished for anything as petty as that."

Stewart, and others, think the penalty could cost Earnhardt the title.

"If he were to lose the championship by 25 points, I would hide all the sharp objects from him," Stewart said. "I can promise you'd have to for me."

At the Busch Series drivers meeting, Stewart repeated his complaints about the Earnhardt situation to NASCAR vice president Jim Hunter, who said he appreciated Stewart's frankness.

"One thing about Tony Stewart and other drivers is that you always know where they stand on issues, and Tony made it very clear where he stands on the issue," Hunter said. "Obviously he disagrees with us, and that's OK."

Hunter explained that NASCAR began penalizing drivers and teams by taking points because monetary fines were not effective.
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Again, welcome aboard! :cheers:
 
Pretty much sums it up for me!! :) However, read through the thread about Jr's cussing.......you'll see a whole bunch of holier than thou PC crap (I'm used that here and haven't been called on it.........yet) about being above all that low life language and such. Actually, I think the uproar was more that it was Jr with the expletive than the expletive itself. NASCAR did set a precedent with taking points from a couple of other drivers earlier this year.........so they did tie their own hands on this one. Funny, that there was no big uproar back then though! :)

I'm a huge Jr fan and I still think the points reduction is more than a little heavy handed since it had no effect what so ever on the outcome of the race, but NASCAR had no choice in the matter. BTW, I wasn't any happier with Hornaday's and Sauter's points being taken away. But, it's a bed made.......everyone must lie in it now!! :D

Good post.
 
Folks,

I've been in and around NASCAR since the mid 1960's and as far back as my somewhat demented memory allows me to recall, NASCAR has always been very insistent that all competitiors and officials be conscious of their language in talking to the fans, the media or in any and all interviews.
I should add that all of the other racing organizations I've ever been involved with were as adament on this subject as NASCAR; you watch your language when you're talking to the fans, the media or the general public.
It's simply that today all the fines, probations, suspensions, etc. are public knowledge, sometimes before those involved are aware of what's going on.

There is no need for any adult to use those expletives on network television or in front of the fans in the grandstand, but unfortunately we seem to have a generation or two who feel that type of language makes them seem more mature when the opposite is the reality.
Grown-ups should be able to express themselves without resorting to four letter words!

Before folks jump on me and call me a prude, that is not the case at all; it's simply that I had some proper parental upbringing and was taught to respect myself and others by being aware of when and where I felt the use of that language was warranted or not apt to offend others who might be within hearing.

It is not a matter of PC "crap" as some folks would have us believe.
It is a matter proper parental upbringing, a small amount of education, a little maturity and good manners.

But, I guess that's now considered to be old-fashioned and it's OK to cuss and curse and show your ignorance, just because someone else is that thoughtless and stupid.

What a bunch of uneducated, uncouth, immature, foul mouthed little brats.
 
"That, along with fan outrage, might force Helton and the head shed into some kind of workable solution."




I agree with that part, Mac. Unfortunately , the 'fans dont matter' attitude seems pretty common not only amongst the sanctioning body, but also among a segment of the fans themselves!


"It is their game, but if no one plays, it hurts them more."---- Sums up exactly what a lot of us fans have been saying for a while now.

I, for one, would like to think the fans still matter and could at least have a bit of 'influence' in which direction the sport takes . This latest incident just brings it into focus. I personally think anyone should be able to use enough self-control over what words they use in any situation. Thats just my personal opinion: I might cuss a lot---just not in Sunday school, for instance.

And as far as your suggestion ---that they all bring a bit of focus onto the situation by saying the same things? Interesting but unlikely, would be my opinion. Too many sponsor dollars influence what these guys say way more than any matter of principle towards the sanctioning body ever could, I imagine.


Anyway, man... good post. And welcome to the forum!



:cheers:
 
...make a list of things they can say---just get some order and rules.
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Rather they made up a list of things they can't say. That does make more sense after all as it would be a lot shorter list. And, they told everyone what the penalty would be. Everyone's problem came, not when, as it has been pointed out, with the points from Sauter and Hornaday but when it was Lil'E. If you were so upset with the rule why didn't anyone, and I mean anyone, protest the points reduction back then. Not one peep was heard. Nothing. Total silence. But, let NASCAR try to impose the exact same rule on Lil'E and you would think the world is coming to an end. Good ol' Tony Stewart feels compelled to break his silence and speak out on this important issue. This board, and others, almost goes into a total meltdown. The question is where were you when Sauter was docked? Where were you when Hornaday was docked? Did anyone even raise their voice above a whisper last year when Mike Wallace was fined because they could "read his lips". No, this holier than thou crowd has been painted with the wrong brush. It's not they who are inconsistent. It's the "they should be able to express their feelings" crowd that is being disingenuous now that the problem has come home to rest with their boy Lil'E. Give me a freaking break.
NASCAR made their list. They made it public. They made it known what the penalty would be. They had others suffer this penalty before Lil'E without protest. Maybe rather than the fans who don't want to hear that language should go somewhere else as Lil'E so graciously suggested he should find somewhere else for him to go and take his potty mouth with him.
 
Originally posted by barelypure@Oct 11 2004, 08:16 AM
Did anyone even raise their voice above a whisper last year when Mike Wallace was fined because they could "read his lips". No, this holier than thou crowd has been painted with the wrong brush.
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Some people here did....


And I figure some other drivers said something too. You just didn't hear too much about because it was Mike Wallace. As far as Sauter goes, I doubt too much was said because he's not as well liked.


Anyway, this conversation is getting tiresome.
dieter.jpg
 
If anyone has an email address for the Pope they should tell him that there's a new God in town. So instead of looking up to pray, he needs to look west.
 
Originally posted by barelypure@Oct 11 2004, 08:16 AM
...make a list of things they can say---just get some order and rules.
Click to expand...

Rather they made up a list of things they can't say. That does make more sense after all as it would be a lot shorter list. And, they told everyone what the penalty would be. Everyone's problem came, not when, as it has been pointed out, with the points from Sauter and Hornaday but when it was Lil'E. If you were so upset with the rule why didn't anyone, and I mean anyone, protest the points reduction back then. Not one peep was heard. Nothing. Total silence. But, let NASCAR try to impose the exact same rule on Lil'E and you would think the world is coming to an end. Good ol' Tony Stewart feels compelled to break his silence and speak out on this important issue. This board, and others, almost goes into a total meltdown. The question is where were you when Sauter was docked? Where were you when Hornaday was docked? Did anyone even raise their voice above a whisper last year when Mike Wallace was fined because they could "read his lips". No, this holier than thou crowd has been painted with the wrong brush. It's not they who are inconsistent. It's the "they should be able to express their feelings" crowd that is being disingenuous now that the problem has come home to rest with their boy Lil'E. Give me a freaking break.
NASCAR made their list. They made it public. They made it known what the penalty would be. They had others suffer this penalty before Lil'E without protest. Maybe rather than the fans who don't want to hear that language should go somewhere else as Lil'E so graciously suggested he should find somewhere else for him to go and take his potty mouth with him.
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Very good post
 
I agree.

This part is dead on target in particular:"No, this holier than thou crowd has been painted with the wrong brush. It's not they who are inconsistent. It's the "they should be able to express their feelings" crowd that is being disingenuous now that the problem has come home to rest with their boy Lil'E. Give me a freaking break."

Good post! :cheers: :cheers:
 
Well I guess I fall into the 25% crowd.
Those were the rules existing "before" he did the interview, they had been in place for quite sometime. When you play the game, you know the rules so why cry when you break the rule and receive the same punishment as other before you have received.

There sure wasn't this type of outrage for the other people penalized for the same thing.

Do "I" use the same word (or even others)? Yes I do from time to time. Does this make me a hypocrite? I don't think so because I KNOW and follow the rules by NOT using them when talking with the general public. In everyday real life the punishment is much harsher. If a person uses this type of language while out estimating jobs to a customer you probably won't get the job. If used while doing a job for someone, the referal from that customer probably won't be very good.

Just for the heck of it, go to work tomorrow and when dealing with customers for the business just go ahead and cuss up a blue streak and see if you get penalized.
Depending on where you work the penalty could be even harsher ... you could lose your job.

What would your opinion be if you went to the Bank, Grocery store, Bowling Ally, Post Office or anyother place and the clerks used this language while refering to you?


JMHO
 
Originally posted by Patrick9999@Oct 11 2004, 09:43 AM
If anyone has an email address for the Pope they should tell him that there's a new God in town. So instead of looking up to pray, he needs to look west.
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Really? Who is it?
 
boB, Eagle, and a couple others. This is indeed getting verrrrry tiresome!!!!!
Agree, Sauter and Hornaday were the first ones to break the rule. Most felt that would be the end of it. That NASCAR had made it's point and no one with the brains God gave a flea would have the stupidity to break them full well knowing the penalties. (Whew, deep breath) Mike Wallace was the one I questoned, and did so publically on other boards. I didn't know about this board at that time, or you would have read my opinion too. Mike was not on "air", and he knew it. He did NOT know some dern TV camera would decide to zooooooooooooom in on him when he excited his car. Sooooooooooo, powie, NASCAR got him. Again Mike is not the fav of too many peeps, so not a whole lot of noise was made.
But you take the belly diver and the mud puddle. The bigger the diver and the bigger the puddle, the BIGGER the splash, and it has much farther reaching impact. Get my drift???
Soooooooooooo, Jr is a big fish in the NASCAR Ocean. He did or said a no-no, just like them 3 other boys did. Doesn't matter if it was in joy or anger. Jr knew the rules. He knows what words are on the list. All the drivers know that list prolly by heart.
Get me, I do NOT dislike JR. Nor do I particularly like him either. But that can be said about several drivers.
Point is, he did the deed, and he received the same punishment as did his peers.
Darn, didn't mean to get so wordy, but this is the last time I am gonna say one more word on this silly done deal!!!!!
 
I am not a Lil'e fan. Far from it. It is a 'third time is the charm' thing for me. I can swear as good or better than anyone else, but choose not to in polite company. I am 58 years old and still find it uncomfortable swearing in the presence of women---some of whom may swear themselves.

It is not the words to which I object. It is the high handed manner in which the 'Head Shed' tosses rules out almost willy nilly. They now have and or change so many rules, their own people cannot keep up!

Maybe it is the money involved. Money has ruined every other professional sport. I suppose NASCAR is just going to be the latest.
 
The words on the list were not made up by NASCAR. The list comes from the FCC.

so you're complaining cause NASCAR isn't consistant, then when they are you complain some more saying they're not consistant? :cuckoo: sure makes me dizzy trying to go in circles to try and understand some of this reasoning LOL
 
:D I would have to use some of the same words LilE used to even start in this discussion! Hey we are a long time removed from being polite to one another.. We all remember sticks and stones.. Well that is how I feel about words. If you don't know what they mean then how can you complain? And if you DO know what the words mean then why not use them? After all they are just more words. Now if those words are directed directly at me, then maybe they are fight'n words. If not then I am a big person and I know where the clicker is.
Betsy :D
 
"Maybe it is the money involved. Money has ruined every other professional sport. I suppose NASCAR is just going to be the latest".



Yep. I couldn't agree more.
 
They have been consistant in this situation---fining money and points for cursing. My beef is they are adding way too many rules and being intentionally vague as to the parameters of those rules. Such as speeding on pit road, passing under the white/yellow line, rough driving---when did Dale Senior ever get a penalty for rough driving----just too many areas where they seem to be able to pass out penalties as they choose.

I understand they have a tough job---and up til the last couple years have done pretty well---just seems like the wheels are falling off.
 
Originally posted by Eagle1@Oct 11 2004, 05:30 PM
The words on the list were not made up by NASCAR. The list comes from the FCC.

so you're complaining cause NASCAR isn't consistant, then when they are you complain some more saying they're not consistant? :cuckoo: sure makes me dizzy trying to go in circles to try and understand some of this reasoning LOL
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Eagle, you have a very good point.

BUT, this story is getting VERY OLD.
 
Handymac,

Do you not remember NASCAR's Penalty Box? It seems to me that Dale Sr., Geoff Bodine, DW, Tim Richmond and a few others were penalized laps for their driving habits quite a few times during the period that NASCAR had that in effect.
Something like one or two laps the first time, five or so the second time and a third offense in the same race got you sent to the trailer.

As for the language issue; I've tried several times to get the point across that this is nothing new. NASCAR (and every other sanction I've ever been involved with) has always been quite plain that foul language in front of the fans, the meida or in interviews does not present the proper image of the sport or its competitors or officials.
That type of talk simply shows a lack of maturity, self respect and respect for others around the person using it and until quite recently WAS NOT acceptable amongst the larger majority of our society.
Considered rather rude, crude and sociably unacceptable...

But some folks on this and other message forums apparently never had the upbringing that taught them things like that.

OR they're so damn stupid that they simply don't give a ****!
 
Originally posted by boB@Oct 12 2004, 06:57 AM
But some folks on this and other message forums apparently never had the upbringing that taught them things like that.

OR they're so damn stupid that they simply don't give a ****!
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And once again, another worthy post of one who is holier than thou....
 
Holier than thou? Not sure how you figure that, oh great, wise one.
Simply trying to get a point across to a few morons who have no wish to learn or understand a fact or two about the real world.
If the shoe fits, or whatever.

fergy, my friend, you need to pull your head out of your butt.
Your breath is starting to smell like ____!

Have a nice day!
 
Here, I'll quote you...


That type of talk simply shows a lack of maturity, self respect and respect for others around the person using it and until quite recently WAS NOT acceptable amongst the larger majority of our society.
Considered rather rude, crude and sociably unacceptable...
Click to expand...


And in the same post....

But some folks on this and other message forums apparently never had the upbringing that taught them things like that.

OR they're so damn stupid that they simply don't give a ****!
Click to expand...


Oh, let me guess, you are being sarcastic.

Hypocrite.
 
Sorry fergy, but I was brought up to speak my mind, let folks know where I stand on things and stand up for what I believe in.

Hypocritical? Not from where I'm sitting.

If your head wasn't stuck somewhere up around the middle of your small intestine, you probably would have realized that those ending remarks in my last post were indeed intended to be sarcastic.

I didn't think it would take a genius to figure it out. Guess I over estimated the mental ability of some of our posters though.


Have a nice day!
 
I believe that this thread has gone just about as far as it needs. Speaking ones mind is fine, but being insulting is going too far. If it continues, I will close this thread, and dare someone to start another one on the same topic.
 
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