The 4 car

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CalTenn

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After watching Brad win his fourth race of the year, it made me wonder if Kevin Harvick is getting the most out of his car. The talking heads will tell you he is a great driver and he might be, but over the last three years he has had the most dominant car at a lot of races only to come up short at the end. I realize he won the championship, but it seems they have left a lot of wins on the track.
 
CalTenn said:
After watching Brad win his fourth race of the year, it made me wonder if Kevin Harvick is getting the most out of his car. The talking heads will tell you he is a great driver and he might be, but over the last three years he has had the most dominant car at a lot of races only to come up short at the end. I realize he won the championship, but it seems they have left a lot of wins on the track.
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He wasn't dominant last night. Never have I seen clear air mean more. He had that air, and when he didn't he was very normal. In watching lap times, guys would lose 3-4 tenths when approaching lappers. I personally had never seen it so bad. Hell, Kez pulled out 3 seconds with a top 10 car. Martin Truex Jr. was dominant on the other hand, but the 4 and NASCAR took care of that.
 
I wasn't talking so much about last night as much as in general, it seems certain drivers when they get to the front at the end of these races close the door, Brad seems to be one of those who take advantage of there opportunities. I'm not even sure he was the leader on the last restart?
 
He wasn't but passed the 4 and the 20 I think? But according to everyone he wasn't fast and he sucks as a driver.

As to Harvick, isn't he The Closer? That's all you hear from the network guys all year. You'd think having all those fast cars he'd have 10 wins by now.
 
5-8th best driver in the series with the best crew chief. He's a clone of terry or Bobby labonte. A couple win a year guy but also gives his fair share of races away. Funny thing is he used to be the opposite at RCR and always steal wins he had no business winning. Now he always snatched defeat fro, the jaws of victory. He's the tier below Jimmie, Brad, Rowdy, kenseth and is about even with Edwards, Hamlin, and Logano.
 
Revman said:
Never have I seen clear air mean more.
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I disagree strongly with this. There were numerous instances last night of trailing cars attacking and passing cars ahead that had clean air. With 2015 aero rules, the trailing cars would nave never gotten near the rear bumper due to aero push.
 
Anyone who thinks Harvick doesn't get the most out of the car should look back at his RCR years. Those cars were mid-pack at best, yet he put the 29 in victory lane year after year. When he finally got to a top-tier ride, he became an elite driver. His failure to close the deal lately is strange, but I don't think the quality of the driver is to blame.
 
Best driver, car and crew is Kyle Busch and team. The fact that Kevin Harvick and Brad Keselowski can compete with the Toyota bunch proves they're elite drivers.

Harvick is still remarkably consistent -- just in an era where consistency no longer means ****.
 
29-4 said:
but I don't think the quality of the driver is to blame.
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I would say the mentality of the driver would be a better term.
I don't believe SHR is in the very best equipment, in other words I don't think HMS has the best equipment but they did have 2 excellent drivers that made the most from that equipment.
Harvick does have one of the best CC in the garage and his cars are capable of winning except for the mentality of the driver.
When a driver is in a complaining mood, he takes away from his concentration and thus leaves things on the table.

His one championship is because it was a one race win to be champion. Under any other format he does not win.
 
In the words of a famous philosopher, "Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate". @Mr. Gregory :D

Team Penske said:
His one championship is because it was a one race win to be champion. Under any other format he does not win.
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Under the full season format NASCAR used to use, Kevin Harvick would be a two-time series champion.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
In the words of a famous philosopher, "Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate"



Under the full season format NASCAR used to use, Kevin Harvick would be a two-time series champion.
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Lets stay with the chase era otherwise you will have JG back in the car going for #7.
 
Team Penske said:
Lets stay with the chase era otherwise you will have JG back in the car going for #7.
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The fact that he would have two titles under the Winston Cup format shows the caliber of driver Harvick is. Consistent every week.

The old Chase was literally just a 10 week season that didn't even have the same diversity in tracks that the regular season had. The new Chase comes down to a one race showdown that doesn't even guarantee the four best drivers racing for the title. Joey Logano wasn't in it last year and Jeff Gordon wasn't in it the year before.
 
I don't like what if subjects, nor do I read threads that start with Mark Martin a champion.
Lets beg to differ and leave it at that.
 
Team Penske said:
I don't like what if subjects, nor do I read threads that start with Mark Martin a champion.
Lets beg to differ and leave it at that.
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You're the one who said the following:

Team Penske said:
His one championship is because it was a one race win to be champion. Under any other format he does not win.
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Harvick's proven to be an elite, future Hall of Fame driver. That's not a difference of opinions, that's just a fact.
 
Judging by the garbage HMS is putting out there, Harvick might win 20 races in a Ford.
 
Ford 222 said:
He wasn't but passed the 4 and the 20 I think? But according to everyone he wasn't fast and he sucks as a driver.

As to Harvick, isn't he The Closer? That's all you hear from the network guys all year. You'd think having all those fast cars he'd have 10 wins by now.
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I don't hear the announcers say that so often anymore. From that 2010-2013 period he was pretty clutch in late-race situations though. RCR really didn't have the ability to put elite equipment out there so in a lot of Harvick's wins during that time he would only lead a few laps towards the end.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I disagree strongly with this. There were numerous instances last night of trailing cars attacking and passing cars ahead that had clean air. With 2015 aero rules, the trailing cars would nave never gotten near the rear bumper due to aero push.
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I scanned Martin and Kyle all night. They would differ with your assessment of this.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I don't hear the announcers say that so often anymore. From that 2010-2013 period he was pretty clutch in late-race situations though. RCR really didn't have the ability to put elite equipment out there so in a lot of Harvick's wins during that time he would only lead a few laps towards the end.
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Right now, when I think of clutch, I think of Brad Keselowski. He's been putting a lot of races away late.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Right now, when I think of clutch, I think of Brad Keselowski. He's been putting a lot of races away late.
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Dude was masterful last night. Loved the fake "out" call even though he denied it. Loved it. Racer.
 
CalTenn said:
After watching Brad win his fourth race of the year, it made me wonder if Kevin Harvick is getting the most out of his car. The talking heads will tell you he is a great driver and he might be, but over the last three years he has had the most dominant car at a lot of races only to come up short at the end. I realize he won the championship, but it seems they have left a lot of wins on the track.
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In the recent past, how many times has the 78 bunch had the dominant car and come up short?

A lot of things factor into closing the deal. A great many of them don't involve the driver and when they do, a simple slip can cost a win. This stuff is much more difficult than it appears to be in HD.
 
aunty dive said:
In the recent past, how many times has the 78 bunch had the dominant car and come up short?

A lot of things factor into closing the deal. A great many of them don't involve the driver and when they do, a simple slip can cost a win. This stuff is much more difficult than it appears to be in HD.
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Hating on Kevin Harvick is as popular on this forum as hating on Danica Patrick.
 
aunty dive said:
In the recent past, how many times has the 78 bunch had the dominant car and come up short?
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Aunty, I am of the impression that the 78 crew at this point has the capability of producing a car that exceeds the team's readiness to fully take advantage of it to a degree. How often do you see such dominance with a driver who can wheel it, but is just a detail here or there from really making a statement? Great problem to have. IMO they need everything in place, they driver and team will mature, and the package will become complete. I am extremely impressed with FRR engineering as is TRD. David Wilson was very stressed that they would regress with the switch to TRD and JGR. Far from it. Great stuff.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
5-8th best driver in the series with the best crew chief. He's a clone of terry or Bobby labonte. A couple win a year guy but also gives his fair share of races away. Funny thing is he used to be the opposite at RCR and always steal wins he had no business winning. Now he always snatched defeat fro, the jaws of victory. He's the tier below Jimmie, Brad, Rowdy, kenseth and is about even with Edwards, Hamlin, and Logano.
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The best crew chief took lefts only on his last stop of the night. People give so much credit to Childers for harvicks success lately even tho the guy had 20+ wins for RCR. How many wins have they had since? I'll wait.
 
RCR has improved their program, problem is they are fixing to let their best driver go to allow another grandson to move up. When RCR was employing Harvick and Bowyer it seemed like Bowyer was the best driver in that stable, now Bowyer is riding around in 25th place, I guess we will find out more about that next year. Just a side note, I wouldn't have put the number three back on the car until the driver proved he could win, disrespectful.
 
Nothing disrespectful of a grand son using his grandfathers number. There are other drivers who do the same.
 
Unfortunately Chevy's behind the ball and we don't go to Phoenix every two weeks.
 
My thoughts on the 4 team...

Harvick - A fast driver. Speed is the long suit, not racecraft. A scrappy, never-give-up guy who tries to intimidate competitors, often drives dirty. Not a team player.

Childers - Builds and sets up fast race cars. Speed is the long suit, not in-race strategy, not in-race execution.

DeLana - Wears the fire suit.
 
CalTenn said:
RCR has improved their program, problem is they are fixing to let their best driver go to allow another grandson to move up. When RCR was employing Harvick and Bowyer it seemed like Bowyer was the best driver in that stable, now Bowyer is riding around in 25th place, I guess we will find out more about that next year. Just a side note, I wouldn't have put the number three back on the car until the driver proved he could win, disrespectful.
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Harvick fared very well against Bowyer...

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Wrangler1 said:
The best crew chief took lefts only on his last stop of the night. People give so much credit to Childers for harvicks success lately even tho the guy had 20+ wins for RCR. How many wins have they had since? I'll wait.
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23 wins in 13 seasons versus 9 wins in 2.5 seasons...Rodney won races with David Reutimann and Brian Vickers as well. Puts a great car out on the track consistently.
 
LewTheShoe said:
My thoughts on the 4 team...

Harvick - A fast driver. Speed is the long suit, not racecraft. A scrappy, never-give-up guy who tries to intimidate competitors, often drives dirty. Not a team player.

Childers - Builds and sets up fast race cars. Speed is the long suit, not in-race strategy, not in-race execution.

DeLana - Wears the fire suit.
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tumblr_l1erpzlLVQ1qzinido1_500.jpg
 
CalTenn said:
Not sure Austin will ever be a top ten driver.
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He's within 20 points of being in the top 10, within 20 points of guys like Matt Kenseth, Denny Hamlin and Dale Jr. Without an early season penatly, he'd be right with those guys. In fact, he has more top 10 than those guys, and more top 5s that the 20 and 88.
 
CalTenn said:
RCR has improved their program, problem is they are fixing to let their best driver go to allow another grandson to move up. When RCR was employing Harvick and Bowyer it seemed like Bowyer was the best driver in that stable, now Bowyer is riding around in 25th place, I guess we will find out more about that next year. Just a side note, I wouldn't have put the number three back on the car until the driver proved he could win, disrespectful.
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Like you said, we will find out next year, but I do have a feeling that him riding around in 25th place is because he is driving a 25th place car from a 25th place team.
 
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