The Confederate flag

V

Vern Demerest

Guest
What does the flag mean to you, racism or southern pride?

Red flag
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
Side-by-side at Talladega. (Getty Images)

TALLADEGA, Ala. – Over the rolling Alabama hills, the soft autumn breeze still whistles through Dixie, finding a legendary track on race week and a sea of flags to push and pull – American flags, driver flags and the flag that remains the third rail of NASCAR, the Confederate.

In America, a NASCAR race is the last major sporting event where the Stars and Bars is still so prevalent, still so prominent, and while the debate over whether the flag's presence is appropriate isn't new, the stakes for NASCAR continue to get higher.

After a decade of massive growth, NASCAR's popularity has slowed and television ratings have slumped. To restart its progress, NASCAR must continue to attract new fans in fresh, more diverse markets, many of whom view the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism and oppression. Yet NASCAR doesn't want to alienate its loyal base, many of whom view the waving flags in the infield as a symbol of honor, history and traditional Southern pride.

Which is why the flag issue – symbolic of many others including prerace prayer and moving races out of the South to fresh markets in the North, Midwest and West – remains an issue NASCAR can't easily solve.

A year ago NASCAR CEO Brian France condemned the flag on "60 Minutes" and reiterated his company's "commitment to diversity."

But that has done little to pull the flags down here at Talladega; they were out in force all weekend, hung from homes and trees on the drive to the track, placed in the back windows of trucks and cars and run up makeshift flag poles on motor homes throughout the party-packed infield.

In fact, France even may have strengthened the resolve to keep them flying.

And France's comments – "It's not a flag that I look at with anything favorable, that's for sure," he said – have not been publicly embraced or repeated by people with the most influence over fans: the drivers themselves.

Yahoo! Sports asked more than 30 major drivers for their thoughts on the Confederate flag, whether they felt it created an unwelcoming environment to potential fans, and if so, whether it would be appropriate to ask their supporters to not fly it.

All but one turned down requests for private interviews, written statements or any comment on the issue. Many did so tersely.

The only driver we found willing to speak on the issue during Talladega race week was Dale Earnhardt Jr., the sport's most popular and powerful star who holds tremendous sway over his legion of fans. Earnhardt, who previously has expressed concern over the flag's meaning, hardly made a definitive statement, but at least had the guts to say something.

"We live in a country where you can speak freely and do as you may," Earnhardt said. "I don't know [if] what that flag stands for is the same for me as it is the guy who might have it flying out there.

"I am not going to agree with everything everybody does all my life. So I don't have any control over it."

When that is the best you can get out of nearly three dozen supposedly fearless, independent and talkative drivers, the silence is as telling as the sagging TV numbers.

NASCAR still has a flag (and image) issue. But no one wants to discuss the elephant in the infield.

Twenty-nine races into the 2006 NASCAR season and television ratings have been either down or flat in 27 of them (numbers for Sunday's UAW-Ford 500 run here at Talladega Superspeedway have not been released). Not even the highly publicized Chase for the Nextel Cup, the sport's championship system, has held audiences. Not since Martinsville in April has a telecast's numbers improved year over year.

Local fans bring the flag.
Local fans bring the flag. (Chip English)
Some weeks the drops have been precipitous – down 14.5 percent for the first New Hampshire race, 12 percent for the second, a Chase race no less. Kansas, also a Chase race, was off 11 percent.

Still, NASCAR remains highly popular. It still gets sizable television numbers that all but the NFL would kill for. The circuit is still awash in sponsorship and endorsement money and continues to attract the best drivers from other racing leagues.

Most importantly, it still is exponentially bigger than it was a decade ago, when it experienced a monumental surge in popularity. In no way is it a business in trouble.

But in terms of sustained growth, the television numbers at least suggest that the boom period is over.

France long has pointed to attracting new fans as the key to NASCAR's future and has said he personally spends part of each day working on diversity issues. NASCAR has numerous fan, driver and mechanic outreach programs geared toward minorities and is pouring major money into each initiative.

But while statistical evidence is not available, few believe the programs have significantly changed the racial makeup of the grandstands on race day. While there is no definitive study showing that NASCAR's image – hurt by the Confederate flag – is keeping would-be fans away, common sense says it can't help.

For many minorities, as well as many whites, a sporting event where Confederate flags still flap freely is an unwelcoming and negative place.

"For a lot of people it is a very loaded symbol that has a history of enslavement and hostility built up into it," said Marsha Houston, a professor at the University of Alabama who specializes in interracial communications.

"African-Americans find it very difficult to separate this history from the symbol itself," said Houston, who is black. "They also see people displaying the symbol as being racist, bigoted and anti-black. As a scholar I understand that symbols have multiple meanings and don't have the same meaning to everyone.

"But personally, [if I saw it at a track], I would go home," she said. "I try not to encounter people who display the flag in the back of their truck. My personal feeling is it is an affront to me."

The debate over what the symbol means and who gets to define that meaning has been waged for decades. The issues surrounding the flag are as complex as they are emotionally charged. The arguments some proponents of the flag make are varied, intellectually sound and mature and, if the flag flapped in a vacuum, convincing.

"It's been used in racist ways, but no symbol has one meaning," said John Coski, author of the book "The Confederate Battle Flag – America's Most Embattled Emblem" and a historian at the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, Va.

The essential argument of flag proponents is summed up on popular bumper stickers – "it's heritage, not hatred." Some people see the flag as a way to honor deceased Confederate soldiers or relatives who stood up for a cause they believed was just. Others view the flag as a symbol of regional pride.

They point out that the flag was not the official flag of the Confederacy (it was a battle flag) and was never meant to symbolize oppression or racism.

"Because the symbol has been used [in] racist, segregationist ways does not mean everyone used it that way," Coski said.

That came during the 20th century when the Ku Klux Klan and less violent pro-separation groups used it. But, proponents argue, just because the flag was hijacked doesn't mean the hijackers should be allowed to define it.

"They argue, 'It's been co-opted but why should we cede the flag?'" said Coski, who wrote a dispassionate, heavily researched and evenhanded book. "The Ku Klux Klan has used the American flag and the Christian cross for far, far longer."

Houston agrees with this assessment, as most thinking people should.

"It is possible that to some it is a symbol of just regional pride, pride in history and devoid of the negative history of slavery and lynchings," she said.

But as noble as that may be, I don't believe that is the true goal of people waving it at a stock car race. At a Confederate memorial or grave site? Sure. But at a sporting event?

Moreover, while the history is clear, so too, for most, is the present. A symbol does not get to define itself; society's oft-changing reaction to it determines that.

The swastika has been used for 3,000 years in cultures as different as China, India, Japan and Europe. Its literal meaning in ancient Sanskrit comes from the words "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and the suffix "ka."

But once Adolph Hitler's Nazi political party in Germany seized it as a symbol in the 1920s and went on to wage the Holocaust on Jews, it changed. In no way can anyone argue it still means "to be good." Its original intent no longer matters.

The same applies for the Confederate flag.

"The people who love the flag have to understand the negative connotation is not made up, they are based on historical uses," Coski said. "Not just by the Klan but ordinary Southerners who used it just as blacks perceive they do. People who love the flag have to be honest about it."

Coski argues it is unfair to label everyone flying the flag as a racist, and I agree. We both believe most who display the flag do so out of rebelliousness, not racism.

"The symbol has gone from the rebel of the civil war to what a colleague of mine called 'the symbolic middle finger,'" Coski said. "It's a gesture that, ‘I'm tough, I'm independent, I can't be pushed around.'"

Which is fine, but for anyone to ignore that the symbol deeply troubles and frightens others is ignorant and hostile. Plus, it runs counter to the high-minded defense that is all about honoring the past.

"The symbolic middle finger is a far cry from 'it's heritage, not hatred,'" Coski said.

NASCAR, based on the television ratings of its "Super Bowl" race – February's Daytona 500 – has about 37 million fans in America – maybe a few million more if you believe someone can be a fan and miss the biggest event of the year.

Either way, that number is far lower than NASCAR's long-claimed 75 million fans, which never has stood up to reality.

To a great number of potential fans, everyone acknowledges, the sport deals both positively and negatively with the lingering image of the sport as a rural, Southern pursuit. The image of the good ol' boy lives on, no matter how increasingly wealthy and geographically diverse the fans and drivers are.

Flags at Talladega.
Flags at Talladega. (AP)
Much of the negative part of that comes from the flag.

"When it was first built it was a Southern sport," said NASCAR legend Donnie Allison, who first raced in the late 1950s. "And when you are in the South the Confederate flag was a symbol of the South. It wasn't a racist thing. That was a flag that you flew."

Outside the South, the number of Confederate flags at races is low. But here, and at other traditional tracks in the region, they are everywhere. A stroll through the infield found multiple flags in every view, often hung by fans from the same flag pole as a flag of their favorite driver.

NASCAR, under France, has banned the flag from appearing in any official capacity or on any licensed product. In the 1990s, when the Sons of Confederate Veterans raised funds to sponsor a car that would feature the flag prominently, NASCAR denied the group's entry into the sport.

Officially there is no debate here.

But getting fans to follow along is a challenge. During the 1990s the University of Mississippi made numerous appeals to its fans to stop waving the Confederate flag at football games. The appeals had little impact, so the school finally banned the sticks that held the flag, citing "fan safety." It held up in federal court and the flag issue has died out at Ole Miss games.

But NASCAR would struggle to make that work in its massive stands and spacious infields. In this case, an Ole Miss-style policy would be not only mistaken but also likely counterproductive.

So while France's position is clear and bold – "I can tell you the flag we get behind: It's the American flag" – it hasn't changed things much. It also has made him unpopular among a segment of his company's costumers.

The reality is few fans are going to listen to the CEO's wishes anyway. If anything, they would act counter to it.

But that, I argue, would not be the case with the drivers. NASCAR fans are famously loyal to their favorite driver, wearing their colors, buying their products, driving their make of car. It is why NASCAR makes so much on sponsorship and 31 Fortune 500 companies are team sponsors.

If all drivers made a declaration against the flag, or even just appealed for a more welcoming environment, surely its numbers would decrease. Or if they chose to support it the opposite would happen. Whatever the answer, it seemed like a worthy question to find out where the drivers stood.

I might as well have asked them to drive without brakes.

"Why are you doing this to us?" demanded one public relations woman. "This is not a story," shouted another, even after I pointed out that the flags are still flying. "Absolutely no way, no how," said another.

Email responses were often bitter. Face-to-face encounters often worse. Interview and statement requests were summarily denied. At some drivers' scheduled weekly press conferences, I was told that any question involving the flag would end the session.

One PR person for a championship-winning driver declared that the driver had no influence over his fans, which ought to be news to his myriad sponsors. Others tried to reason that their drivers were too young. One suggested his guy was just too dumb to really comprehend the subject. I appreciated the off-the-record honesty there.

Some claimed their driver was just too busy. A bunch ignored multiple emails and phone messages. As a group, everyone was running for the hills.

Only Earnhardt was willing to stand up and say anything. He said he doesn't view the flag the way some of his fans do, but considering he has millions of fans of all makes, shapes and political persuasions, he can't expect to agree with all of them on anything. Heck, some of them might even drink Miller Lite.

Going into Talladega, I honestly had no idea what the reaction would be to such a question. What I never anticipated was an almost complete whitewash – pretty much everyone but Junior – which became far more telling than any answer any single driver could have provided.

"We don't want to offend anyone," said one PR woman.

Who are you offending, I'd ask, the people who think it is great to fly the Confederate flag? Or the people who believe that the people who think it is great to fly the Confederate flag are intolerant?

I'd try to note that a "no comment" on this was a comment, support of the status quo.

I'd point out that if Confederate flags were being waved at NBA or NFL games, those players would be asked about it – although, as professor Houston smartly pointed out, you don't see too many athletes taking a stand against Native American team names or logos when those debates come up.

"There is a lot of blindness we all have to the concerns of others," she said.

Essentially I believe, based on so many off-the-record conversations and reactions, that given the choice the drivers would rather offend non-fans than current fans. If you happen to find the flag offensive, they have nothing to say.

But there never was a definitive answer. Maybe there never will be.

In terms of business, though, it's about trying to balance appealing to the people who are at the track with the ones who potentially could be.

The same great freedom that protects the flying of the Confederate flag in this big, beautiful Alabama infield is the same great freedom that allows people troubled by the symbol to ignore it or leave NASCAR altogether.

That's America. And for NASCAR, even after all these years, it's still its greatest challenge.
 
All I see in it is freedom of speech. I'm used to seeing it down here in texas.
 
Obviously I'm a Canadian but when I see the Rebel flag I think of the Dukes Of Hazard which takes me to Southern pride. Nothing to do with racism.
 
I have noticed

Some folks use their objection to the flag as a CRUTCH to fall back on when they have nothing else to say!
Just as wearing a CROSS pendant, or perhaps a ST Christopher sitting on a dashboard.. It is a personal thing. What one displays to others is that persons way of speaking without words.
To me? That flag reminds me of my many Grandfathers that carried it with pride. Some died with it in their hands. Others lived to tell of the horrors of war. I think it became popular as a rebuke to the carpetbaggers that entered the South after the war.. But that is only an opinion.
One group of folks took the word "gay" out of our language...for no reason. Now another is after a symbol they only THINK they know something about.
Grandmother Anderson told me many times "if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all". I doubt the objectors to the flag have that in mind.
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Most people associate the Confederate flag with racism because of the KKK. That group wrongfully assumed the Civil War was fought over slavery. It was not, it was fought over fair trade. Slavery only became an issue a couple of years into the war when Abe Lincoln brought it in. People really need to read and study their history.
 
Oh, you mean like how there were slaves in the Lincoln White House while the war was being fought. Or, how the Eman. Proc. only freed slaves in the South but did nothing for them in the North. You mean that History, that people so often disregard while they spout their drivel...
 
So the slaves in the North were already free?

Oh, you mean like how there were slaves in the Lincoln White House while the war was being fought. Or, how the Eman. Proc. only freed slaves in the South but did nothing for them in the North. You mean that History, that people so often disregard while they spout their drivel...

Yep it does say something like that.. But what it does NOT say is that the slaves in yankeeland were already free. There was no reason to mention that fact. But if you read carefully there were places in the south that had already freed their slaves and were NOT at war.
The Emancipation Proclamation
January 1, 1863
A Transcription

By the President of the United States of America:

A Proclamation.

Whereas, on the twenty-second day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, a proclamation was issued by the President of the United States, containing, among other things, the following, to wit:

"That on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the Executive Government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.

"That the Executive will, on the first day of January aforesaid, by proclamation, designate the States and parts of States, if any, in which the people thereof, respectively, shall then be in rebellion against the United States; and the fact that any State, or the people thereof, shall on that day be, in good faith, represented in the Congress of the United States by members chosen thereto at elections wherein a majority of the qualified voters of such State shall have participated, shall, in the absence of strong countervailing testimony, be deemed conclusive evidence that such State, and the people thereof, are not then in rebellion against the United States."

Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and in accordance with my purpose so to do publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days, from the day first above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States, the following, to wit:
Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.

And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid, I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free; and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons.

And I hereby enjoin upon the people so declared to be free to abstain from all violence, unless in necessary self-defence; and I recommend to them that, in all cases when allowed, they labor faithfully for reasonable wages.

And I further declare and make known, that such persons of suitable condition, will be received into the armed service of the United States to garrison forts, positions, stations, and other places, and to man vessels of all sorts in said service.

And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind, and the gracious favor of Almighty God.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington, this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three, and of the Independence of the United States of America the eighty-seventh.

By the President: ABRAHAM LINCOLN
WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.

Betsy:rolleyes:
 
No, the point is that even after the Proclamation there were still slaves in the White House and in Northern States. Lincoln was already seeing riots in the streets over his policies and the war and he didn't want to further antagonize the North by extending freedom to all peoples. Admittedly most Northern areas were slave free, but not all.
If you really want to see a travesty look at the history of how Native Americans were treated. It wasn't until 1978 that the Freedom of Religion Act was passed giving Native Americans that freedom that had been extended to everyone else since the founding.
Further, The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 gave United States citizenship to Native Americans. Tragically, they were not recognized as the legal guardians of their own children until 1937.
There are many things this country has a reason to show shame...
 
I look at the Stars and Bars as part of history --- the same as I look at the French, Spanish, and English flags that flew over the land we now call the U.S.
 
There will ALWAYS be debates about the Stars and Bars, but it has never upset me even growing up in the Northeast. Freedom of expression and pride in one's heritage is part of our history and the reason WE are free today.
How many of us are proud to say that our ancestors were imigrants from Russia, Ireland, Germany, France, Canada, Italy, Africa, Australia, Asia, etc, or are Native Americans?
How many of our members are NOT from the USA?

How many enjoyed "Dukes Of Hazard"? Green Acres, Mayberry, Beverly Hillbillys, and so many others?
Believe it or not, the term REDNECK comes from way back when the farmers toiled in their own fields from dawn to dusk and developed sunburn on their neck.

The Southers states did NOT cecede because of slavery, but because of State's RIGHTS and that Flag is a symbol of their rights during the Civil War, NOT a slam to the USA.

I moved this thread as I don't believe it belongs in the original forum.
 
Let's face it, for whatever reason that anyone flies the Stars and Bars, those who take offense are those who will say that it represents slavery, without exception. There will be some, maybe many who will say that the Stars and Bars represent freedom of expression, but fly the flag as radical racists. The southern folk want to hold on to this symbol for various reasons, but the fact is, the northern folk don't have a symbol like this other than the US Flag. If we take a look at what these two flags have done, we can say, yes, the Stars and Bars were from a country that condoned slavery. But seldom do we ever hear, and with good reason I might add, is that the Stars and Stripes were behind slavery before the southern states conceded. Nor will we hear that that flag was behind the country that bombed Dresden in WWII. I would say that if I were a German citizen from that time, I'd not forget. How about Hiroshima? Nagasaki? While most of us "Americans" can give good reasons for those deeds, there are many around the world who say those acts were terrible. Ask Germany what they think of our policy of capital punishment. That is done under the Stars and Stripes.

The Confederacy might be the scorn of many citizens of the US these days, it wasn't something that a small amount of people felt was right. The civil war was the death of more US citizens than any other war we've fought. The country is large enough that there are many places where a person needs to have the language of the local people in order to communicate, and I'm not talking about English or Spanish, though those two languages are the most used. One can find places in this country where Chinese is the only language spoken. German, Greek, Italian, French, and so on. It's been shown that this country is the country with the most people who are proud enough of their heritage that they will fly the flag of their own country, and the most flown is the Stars and Stripes. No wonder the Stars and Bars is also frequently flown as many people are proud of thier own heritage.

Just as we are a country of many people, it doesn't matter what the majority think, if one race feels they are being targeted for a reason, it becomes fact. It doesn't matter that one of my best friends is a black man, I will forever be a racist because I'm a white man.

The whole thing about this is what is politically correct and what side of the aisle you are on concerning that. I might say this, if you respect free speech, you should respect anyone flying the Stars and Bars. If on the other hand, you want to stiffle free speech, then banning the Stars and Bars would surely be one of the first things on your mind.
 
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