The future of Dover

HoneyBadger

HoneyBadger

I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
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Steve O'Donnell sent this ominous tweet about the future of racing at Dover International Speedway earlier today:

@odsteve Steve O'Donnell
#2012schedule hopeful that crowds will come back. “@amarquis32: @odsteve What's the future of racing at Dover past 2012?”
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A couple things. First, Dover Motorsports Inc. is in big financial trouble, their statements look like Lehman Brothers. Second, poor attendance has not caused Homestead or Chicago to lose races. In fact, Chicago's poor attendance was rewarded with a Chase race and Homestead still has the season finale even though Las Vegas would pack the joint.

At Baltimore, there was a lot of talk from people in the media about the future of Dover. Lots of rumors that Dover Motorsports Inc will close following the fall Dover race and sell all its assets. The fact that Bruton Smith or the ISC have not purchased that track yet tells me they won't. As for independent ownership, which is possible, well, look at how long it took to get NASCAR back to Rockingham.

I know y'all have heard this from me before (in regards to Rockingham), but if you like that track and you want it to stay around, order tickets to the race and show up. I don't like Dover, but I might go next year on principle.
 
NASCAR made a huge mistake in September 2009 when they announced that they were moving their spring race date to three weeks earlier than normal. I had been going to that track for years and saw many, many families that had been taking advantage of that, schools out, first week of summer race. I knew from the day that it was announced that it would affect their attendance in a big way. At the time the president of Dover Motorsports announced that it was a one year change. I bought into that thought and went ahead and purchased my tickets for 2010 just so I could retain my seats when it moved back to the later date. When the 2011 dates were announced it sat at the same early week on the schedule. I gave my seats up. My plans have already been made for 2012 races and they don't include Dover.
 
It would be a shame to lose that track from the schedule.

The only upside I can see is that it might open the door for another Road Course Race!
 
Well the spring race is moving back to its old spot in the schedule, weekend of June 3rd. I hope this is good for the track. I say drop one of its date, preferably the chase date. Give that date to a road course. We need a road course in the chase.
 
A road course eh?

Circ Villinuve is the best IMO.

Sonoma is ok, but too technical for guys to make moves in 4000lb "stock" cars.
 
Saw this elsewhere in regard to both the lack of attendance and weather issues that plague Dover.....

Idea for Dover - cover empty seats with giant banner with image of race fans having a wonderful time on it. Problem solved.

And to handle the weather issue, Dover could hang a giant, GIANT banner over the entire track, to keep the smaller giant banners dry.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Well the spring race is moving back to its old spot in the schedule, weekend of June 3rd. I hope this is good for the track. I say drop one of its date, preferably the chase date. Give that date to a road course. We need a road course in the chase.
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NASCAR stock car racing is about Oval Racing we already have two more roadcourses than are needed in the sport.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Saw this elsewhere in regard to both the lack of attendance and weather issues that plague Dover.....

Idea for Dover - cover empty seats with giant banner with image of race fans having a wonderful time on it. Problem solved.

And to handle the weather issue, Dover could hang a giant, GIANT banner over the entire track, to keep the smaller giant banners dry.
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I don't understand why Pocono didn't install their solar panels over the grandstands. With the price of energy today, any track could make a ton of money year round selling electricity to the utility company.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR has had a road course on its schedule in all but two season since 1949.

Excellant article on NASCAR's Road Course history.
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Yeah I know butt their only there for the fans entertainment, their Not what stock car racing is about.
Thanks for the link to the article good read, I laughed at this part:

" Not only was the second race in 1949 referred to as the Daytona Beach and Road Course, but founder Bill France competed in and promoted races on the beach more than a decade before the meeting at the Streamline Hotel that led to the organization of the sanctioning body now known as NASCAR."

In the south back then anything PAVED or even Graded/Oiled dirt was considered a road. There where NO right turns on that track!
 
FlFlash said:
Yeah I know butt their only there for the fans entertainment, their Not what stock car racing is about.
Thanks for the link to the article good read, I laughed at this part:

" Not only was the second race in 1949 referred to as the Daytona Beach and Road Course, but founder Bill France competed in and promoted races on the beach more than a decade before the meeting at the Streamline Hotel that led to the organization of the sanctioning body now known as NASCAR."

In the south back then anything PAVED or even Graded/Oiled dirt was considered a road. There where NO right turns on that track!
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But you must remember, NASCAR racing was originally founded to replace the drivers that would run around the back woods hauling moonshine. Those did most definitely NOT make left turns only.

And besides, isn't the fan's entertainment the bottom line anyway? Kind of a a weird statement you made there, if ya ask me.
 
Some other interesting Dover info.....

Average estimated Sprint Cup attendance for the past six Dover races (2009-11): 91,830. For the six races prior (2006-08): 139,670.
 
VaDirt said:
But you must remember, NASCAR racing was originally founded to replace the drivers that would run around the back woods hauling moonshine. Those did most definitely NOT make left turns only.

Oval racing was around a Long time before "Moonshiners" it just so happened that NASACR pulled some of it's early drivers from there

And besides, isn't the fan's entertainment the bottom line anyway? Kind of a a weird statement you made there, if ya ask me.

No it's about Racing, if spectators wanna pay to watch go ahead but if no one showed up I bet ya money most real racers would be racing anyway.
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FlFlash said:
No it's about Racing, if spectators wanna pay to watch go ahead but if no one showed up I bet ya money most real racers would be racing anyway.
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Sorry to tell you this, but butts in seats is what pays the bill. Ever notice how people talk about how empty the stands are at race tracks, and how that's a concern for the sport? There's a reason.

Road courses need to be part of the sport.
 
3 things:

Name a Road Racing series in the United State's with more Fans than NASCAR.

Ask 10 Americans on the street who Sebastian Vettel is ( he is the current Formula 1 points leader and last years Champion in case you don't know )

Ask the same 10 Americans if they know who Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt are.

Road racing in the United States dosent have enough fans to put more Butts in the seats.
 
FlFlash said:
3 things:

Name a Road Racing series in the United State's with more Fans than NASCAR.

Ask 10 Americans on the street who Sebastian Vettel is ( he is the current Formula 1 points leader and last years Champion in case you don't know )

Ask the same 10 Americans if they know who Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt are.

Road racing in the United States dosent have enough fans to put more Butts in the seats.
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Nobody's talking about a road racing series, it's about running more road courses in NASCAR. Just about every driver wants a road course in the Chase, the general consensus among fans is that road course racing is producing the best racing out there right now.

BTW, road course racing fans tend to be more loyal. Yes, NASCAR has the most fans -- but let me ask you this, how many of them leave the stands when Jr wrecks? I'm tired of NASCAR trying to appeal to the little fangirls who only root for drivers because they think they're hot. That thinking is ruining the sport. NASCAR's going the way of the dinosaur.
 
There are empty seats at every NASCAR track. Even this year's Daytona 500 did not sell out, the first time in a long time it hasn't sold out.

What you are seeing is these tracks kept adding seats when the sport was growing in the 90's. They kept adding them and kept adding them because tickets were in demand. They could put seats under the track and people back then would have bought them. Not so now. So now you see all these seats that were added and nobody wants to sit in them because they are either crappy seats or too high in price to start with.

Tracks like Dover need to look into removing sections of seats or covering them for good. About 10-12 years ago when MLB teams started building smaller ballparks, it was their old stadiums were too big for the demand. They decided it was better to build smaller stadiums to make them look full and create a demand for tickets. Some NASCAR tracks need to take the same approach.

It's sad to see a track in the Chase only be half full even if the weather looked cruddy. Something like this is what will cause it to lose one or both its dates.
 
My point is If a American Road Racing Series can't get any fans Why would you think adding more road races to a Oval racing series would?

NASCAR has dumped on it's long time fans many times in the past dozen years or so how much more do you think they'll stand?

If NASCAR wants to do anything they need to start thinking about supporting their long time fans and quit trying to cahnge what the sport is about. If any tracks need to be added it's a couple really good short tracks I,m talking half miles somewhere that there's action and real hard racing like the Fans Want to see!
 
The best of both worlds would be more short tracks and road courses. Road courses continue to pack in the crowds for NASCAR Cup events. Why, because they produce good racing. Two of the best races this year were on the only two road courses that were run.
 
FlFlash said:
My point is If a American Road Racing Series can't get any fans Why would you think adding more road races to a Oval racing series would?

NASCAR has dumped on it's long time fans many times in the past dozen years or so how much more do you think they'll stand?

If NASCAR wants to do anything they need to start thinking about supporting their long time fans and quit trying to cahnge what the sport is about. If any tracks need to be added it's a couple really good short tracks I,m talking half miles somewhere that there's action and real hard racing like the Fans Want to see!
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A lot of people won't watch NASCAR because of the perception that "all they do is turn left"
 
FlFlash said:
My point is If a American Road Racing Series can't get any fans Why would you think adding more road races to a Oval racing series would?

NASCAR has dumped on it's long time fans many times in the past dozen years or so how much more do you think they'll stand?

If NASCAR wants to do anything they need to start thinking about supporting their long time fans and quit trying to cahnge what the sport is about. If any tracks need to be added it's a couple really good short tracks I,m talking half miles somewhere that there's action and real hard racing like the Fans Want to see!
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But who says road courses are not what the sport is about? Just you, as far as I can tell. Road courses have been part of the schedule since I can remember. The road course in Riverside CA was part of the schedule from 1958 until it closed in '88, and they even started the season there for many many years.

Watkins Glen has been a permanent part of the schedule for 25 years now, and Infineon for 22.

I do agree about adding more short tracks, but 2 or even 3 road courses would certainly add to the challenges of the season.
 
I believe the 1st road course race in 1957 at Watkins Glen.
 
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