Time machine to 2003

NJJammer

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Extensive read from 2003 but well worth the investment in time to get a sense of the France family's vision of NASCAR right before The Chase was implemented and the change in sponsorship from Winston to Nextel.

I found it fascinating and a glimpse into the family dynamic between Bill Jr. and Brian.

What could have been? You know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/08/18/nascars-new-track
 
Perhaps Lesa would've done a better job. Even now, it may be worth a shot.

I'm a big Lakers fan. The past few years we have sucked. Last year we finished with our worst record in franchise history. Magic Johnson just signed on as an advisor and has basically said he plans on uprooting the current GM from that spot, despite some badass draft picks the past couple years and a couple decades worth of success. I constantly worry than Jim and Jeanie Buss are running their pop's franchise into the ground. A lot like the offspring-owned NY Knicks are doing right now.


Oops, wrong thread?
 
Extensive read from 2003 but well worth the investment in time to get a sense of the France family's vision of NASCAR right before The Chase was implemented and the change in sponsorship from Winston to Nextel.

I found it fascinating and a glimpse into the family dynamic between Bill Jr. and Brian.

What could have been? You know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/08/18/nascars-new-track
Thanks for posting that. It's a very interesting article. One key takeaway is that no one had a clue about how precarious Nascar's position really was. None of the France family, other stakeholders, nor the media. This is not really surprising - after all hindsight is 20/20 - but still it is sobering.

The author recounts the boom, but the real question is what comes next. Everyone thought... more of the same, forever. Nascar was a white hot cultural scene. Right up until it wasn't. Over and over again, when society moves on to graze in a new pasture, a lot of dreams are dashed.

I recently posted about an insightful article in Rolling Stone about the C/W urban cowboy boom in the early 1980s. Soon after, the very same people discovered racquetball. And then came the concurrent double booms of the Nascar Lifestyle and the Harley Davidson Lifestyle, which arrived together and left together a decade later.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...ics-polarizing-urban-cowboy-movement-20150612
 
Thanks for posting that. It's a very interesting article. One key takeaway is that no one had a clue about how precarious Nascar's position really was. None of the France family, other stakeholders, nor the media. This is not really surprising - after all hindsight is 20/20 - but still it is sobering.

The author recounts the boom, but the real question is what comes next. Everyone thought... more of the same, forever. Nascar was a white hot cultural scene. Right up until it wasn't. Over and over again, when society moves on to graze in a new pasture, a lot of dreams are dashed.

I recently posted about an insightful article in Rolling Stone about the C/W urban cowboy boom in the early 1980s. Soon after, the very same people discovered racquetball. And then came the concurrent double booms of the Nascar Lifestyle and the Harley Davidson Lifestyle, which arrived together and left together a decade later.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...ics-polarizing-urban-cowboy-movement-20150612

Many of these things can be said of the NFL as of last year.
 
Many of these things can be said of the NFL as of last year.
Football is fundamentally different, IMO. The NFL may taper off or even decline, but will never resemble a fad that fizzled out. Football is so pervasive in America. Two miles from my house is a prime property, clearly worth many millions of dollars. It is youth football and soccer fields, and I have the privilege of paying for it with my taxes. I also own middle school football fields and high school football stadiums, not to mention college stadiums. I should feel like a freakin' football magnate, but I don't. Motorsports never had that foundation. And never will.

The other great advantage enjoyed by the big stick and ball sports is the phenomenon of the home team which is widely supported in its own region. This makes it easy and natural for even casual fans to engage with the home team. That geographic rivalry is more valuable than gold.
 
even NASCAR used to have a geographic influence as fans rented more RVS and attended 20 races in 15 states.
 
Time machine to 2003 also goes back to 5 years before the Great Recession happened. Bottom line is NASCAR got absolutely crushed by the fact it's working class base was decimated


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"Of the two France children, Lesa is considered the more intellectual one"

It was just as obvious in 2003 as it is today.
 
Extensive read from 2003 but well worth the investment in time to get a sense of the France family's vision of NASCAR right before The Chase was implemented and the change in sponsorship from Winston to Nextel.

I found it fascinating and a glimpse into the family dynamic between Bill Jr. and Brian.

What could have been? You know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/08/18/nascars-new-track

Great article that excellently recaps the history of stock car racing.

The author states several times that it was NASCAR that dumped Winston whereas, following the court room judgments against the tobacco industry that involved huge amounts of money, I always thought that it was Winston that left NASCAR.

Love the description of Brian's speech that "had the audience in a torpor (state of mental inactivity)" that caused Bill Jr. to take the microphone. "Brian listened awkwardly to his father for a few moments; looking chastened, he returned to his seat."

In other words, Bill Jr. told Brian, "Shut up and sit down."

The author says that "Brian is generally credited with the tremendous growth of NASCAR’s merchandising arm, which now brings in two billion dollars a year from sales of seat cushions, walking canes, mud flaps, and similar items."

If only Brian was never given any more authority than to run NASCAR's merchandising arm . . .
 
“Bill Jr. wasn’t smart enough to pour piss out of a boot if there were instructions on the heel. Those things are hard to ignore. No question about it, the die was cast a long time ago.”

Yunick’s opinion, from his book.

Kinda sounds like Smokey didn't much care for Bill Jr. o_O
 
Football is fundamentally different, IMO. The NFL may taper off or even decline, but will never resemble a fad that fizzled out. Football is so pervasive in America. Two miles from my house is a prime property, clearly worth many millions of dollars. It is youth football and soccer fields, and I have the privilege of paying for it with my taxes. I also own middle school football fields and high school football stadiums, not to mention college stadiums. I should feel like a freakin' football magnate, but I don't. Motorsports never had that foundation. And never will.

You also have the privilege of owning, through your taxes, a street and road grid connecting every residential street all the way up to the largest highway network in the world. We all own million dollar on-ramps and flyovers where there was once prime property, billion dollar tunnels to make our commutes marginally quicker and 10 lane interstates rammed through the heart of dense cities. The end result is that here in the US 90% of all trips taken are in a personal automobile. That's a staggeringly high percentage compared to the rest of the developed world, but what else would you expect when we've poured so much money and concrete into infrastructure for cars?

Yeah, a lot of people grow up playing football, baseball, basketball or hockey or whatever sport (about 56% of kids these days, so not an overwhelming amount actually). But the vast majority of those watching an NFL broadcast, or the Stanley Cup or going to a Friday night baseball game to have a good time didn't ever play that sport themselves. It doesn't mean that they can't understand and enjoy it though.

On the flip side, pretty much everyone of those viewers has taken their diver's ed, gotten a license, owns a car and drives it twice a day at minimum. So why can't NASCAR, and motorsports in general, make that connection between the sport on TV and something we do every day? IMO, this goes back to the cars themselves. It's one thing to say "make the cars stock again", but we all know that can't happen or the drivers will revolt. But the opposite attitude that yourself and others have on here, that "these are race cars so stop pretending they are anything else" is equally misguided. I think that in order to re-kindle that connection, the cars need to be more "stock" beyond just looks. The current Gen6 cars do a decent enough job of imitating the shape of economy sedans, but that isn't enough it seems.

When a family goes to buy a new car, they have reasons why they pick a fusion over a camry or a Malibu, whether it's power, fuel economy, reliability, or plain looks. They clearly aren't all the same on the showroom floor. So if that family happens to tune in on a Sunday in the summer, I think a lot of them subtly expect to see those same characteristics played out on the racetrack. Right now they aren't seeing it and it's a big missed opportunity. People don't just want to see stock elements of the car just for looks, they want to see these elements effect the race itself. It's not like NASCAR has completely abandoned the stock characteristics of the cars; they still carry 18 gallon fuel tanks and five lug nuts per wheel and I don't see any "race car only" fans complaining about either. NASCAR needs to re-introduce more elements like those back into the cars.

The other great advantage enjoyed by the big stick and ball sports is the phenomenon of the home team which is widely supported in its own region. This makes it easy and natural for even casual fans to engage with the home team. That geographic rivalry is more valuable than gold

This is very true, and hometown boosterism is enough to overcome many faults in stick-and-ball sports. I've posited before that maybe the concentration of NASCAR teams around Charlotte is a negative in the long run. However, that's all ignoring the fact that NASCAR has, or at least used to have, strong fan rooting interests based on manufacturers. People pledged allegiance to a driver based on what he was driving, because they themselves owned and drove that make of car. Does that still happen today? Sure, but not as much. Like I said above it's harder now to make that connection between what the fan owns and what their driver drives. Also, the increasing market penetration of foreign brands such as Toyota, Nissan, Honda has further eroded that connection. That's why it is crucial to attract more than the current 3. Getting Toyota in NASCAR was huge. Getting FCA would immediately put the NASCAR manufacturers over 60% in terms of representation of new car sales.
 
You also have the privilege of owning, through your taxes, a street and road grid connecting every residential street all the way up to the largest highway network in the world. We all own million dollar on-ramps and flyovers where there was once prime property, billion dollar tunnels to make our commutes marginally quicker and 10 lane interstates rammed through the heart of dense cities. The end result is that here in the US 90% of all trips taken are in a personal automobile. That's a staggeringly high percentage compared to the rest of the developed world, but what else would you expect when we've poured so much money and concrete into infrastructure for cars?

Yeah, a lot of people grow up playing football, baseball, basketball or hockey or whatever sport (about 56% of kids these days, so not an overwhelming amount actually). But the vast majority of those watching an NFL broadcast, or the Stanley Cup or going to a Friday night baseball game to have a good time didn't ever play that sport themselves. It doesn't mean that they can't understand and enjoy it though.

On the flip side, pretty much everyone of those viewers has taken their diver's ed, gotten a license, owns a car and drives it twice a day at minimum. So why can't NASCAR, and motorsports in general, make that connection between the sport on TV and something we do every day? IMO, this goes back to the cars themselves. It's one thing to say "make the cars stock again", but we all know that can't happen or the drivers will revolt. But the opposite attitude that yourself and others have on here, that "these are race cars so stop pretending they are anything else" is equally misguided. I think that in order to re-kindle that connection, the cars need to be more "stock" beyond just looks. The current Gen6 cars do a decent enough job of imitating the shape of economy sedans, but that isn't enough it seems.

When a family goes to buy a new car, they have reasons why they pick a fusion over a camry or a Malibu, whether it's power, fuel economy, reliability, or plain looks. They clearly aren't all the same on the showroom floor. So if that family happens to tune in on a Sunday in the summer, I think a lot of them subtly expect to see those same characteristics played out on the racetrack. Right now they aren't seeing it and it's a big missed opportunity. People don't just want to see stock elements of the car just for looks, they want to see these elements effect the race itself. It's not like NASCAR has completely abandoned the stock characteristics of the cars; they still carry 18 gallon fuel tanks and five lug nuts per wheel and I don't see any "race car only" fans complaining about either. NASCAR needs to re-introduce more elements like those back into the cars.



This is very true, and hometown boosterism is enough to overcome many faults in stick-and-ball sports. I've posited before that maybe the concentration of NASCAR teams around Charlotte is a negative in the long run. However, that's all ignoring the fact that NASCAR has, or at least used to have, strong fan rooting interests based on manufacturers. People pledged allegiance to a driver based on what he was driving, because they themselves owned and drove that make of car. Does that still happen today? Sure, but not as much. Like I said above it's harder now to make that connection between what the fan owns and what their driver drives. Also, the increasing market penetration of foreign brands such as Toyota, Nissan, Honda has further eroded that connection. That's why it is crucial to attract more than the current 3. Getting Toyota in NASCAR was huge. Getting FCA would immediately put the NASCAR manufacturers over 60% in terms of representation of new car sales.

I love V8 engines but realistically NASCAR should be using a smaller car with a V6 engine that bears a resemblance to its stock brethren. There is no appetite for it and most people would not like it but that has never stopped NASCAR before. The feeling I get today is that most people don't mind today's car aesthetically more than they do that the thing races like a dog especially at the Brobs.

IMO the best thing NASCAR could do for goodwill and potentially more interest is to scrap the chase and go back to some version of the point system prior to 2004. If the champion is declared before the last race and it troubles you then stop watching after that point. Next on the list would be to either fix this car, design a new one or race on tracks where aero is not as pronounced. We don't want to upset anyone and attempt to change the laws of physics but we can do better with mitigating them.

Establishing rules that have been well thought out and tested in real world situations would be great. Make good policy and resist changing it. Stop with the bogus cautions as in the long run you are better off having cars string out under green as opposed to getting the yips and ruining any shred of credibility by calling fake cautions for the purpose of bunching up the field.

I have mentioned only 4 things but 3 of them could be implemented immediately and would jerk the series back toward becoming a sport again. People would still get to keep their precious NASCAR charity in the form of wave arounds and free passes. Pit road speeds would remain intact as well as all other safety initiatives.

These are all just ideas and opinions of mine and I realize others may have sharp disagreement.
 
I love V8 engines but realistically NASCAR should be using a smaller car with a V6 engine that bears a resemblance to its stock brethren. There is no appetite for it and most people would not like it but that has never stopped NASCAR before. The feeling I get today is that most people don't mind today's car aesthetically more than they do that the thing races like a dog especially at the Brobs.

IMO the best thing NASCAR could do for goodwill and potentially more interest is to scrap the chase and go back to some version of the point system prior to 2004. If the champion is declared before the last race and it troubles you then stop watching after that point. Next on the list would be to either fix this car, design a new one or race on tracks where aero is not as pronounced. We don't want to upset anyone and attempt to change the laws of physics but we can do better with mitigating them.

Establishing rules that have been well thought out and tested in real world situations would be great. Make good policy and resist changing it. Stop with the bogus cautions as in the long run you are better off having cars string out under green as opposed to getting the yips and ruining any shred of credibility by calling fake cautions for the purpose of bunching up the field.

I have mentioned only 4 things but 3 of them could be implemented immediately and would jerk the series back toward becoming a sport again. People would still get to keep their precious NASCAR charity in the form of wave arounds and free passes. Pit road speeds would remain intact as well as all other safety initiatives.

These are all just ideas and opinions of mine and I realize others may have sharp disagreement.

Lots of interesting ideas. Perhaps they should go to V6s in the Xfiniti Series first but I doubt they'll be able to get new manufacturers to invest the resources in a relatively poorly watched and attended series. Going to V6s in Cup may attract other companies (Honda, Nissan, VW, FCA, etc) but I wonder how much the fan base would decline and would younger fans make up the difference? The V8 may be sacrosanct to most NASCAR fans.
 
Lots of interesting ideas. Perhaps they should go to V6s in the Xfiniti Series first but I doubt they'll be able to get new manufacturers to invest the resources in a relatively poorly watched and attended series. Going to V6s in Cup may attract other companies (Honda, Nissan, VW, FCA, etc) but I wonder how much the fan base would decline and would younger fans make up the difference? The V8 may be sacrosanct to most NASCAR fans.

I don't think anything less than a V8 would be accepted. Years ago in the old BGN series they used V6 engines before going back to 8 cylinders.
 
Honestly though, NASCAR was already popular. When Dale Earnhardt died and it was the lead story in the news for a week with nonstop coverage from CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, a lot of people started tuning out of curiosity. And the races in 2001 were fantastic.

When I was in middle school and high school, NASCAR was the cool thing. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was a rockstar. There were Harvick and Gordon fans, and we even had a lot of John Andretti fans because his cars were always flashy. Those were good times. It was a fad though.

Now UFC has taken that "cool kids sport" status but even that bubble is starting to burst
 
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