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SST55
Guest
How are the teams picked to go? Isn't it a unfair advantage for those testing and getting extra track time over those who don't test?
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Looking back at testing over the previous years it seems to be a pretty random selection of teams/manufacturers. Jayski's site has pages dedicated to tire testing and you can see who tested where. It also looks as though not all manufacturers are represented at each of these tests. As far as it being an unfair advantage, I'd guess in a way it is but it all seems to even out over time as they pretty much all seem to get their turn. Really though, what's the alternative? I guess you could throw some retired or unemployed drivers out there but in which owners equipment? IMO the only way to truly test the tires would be to throw drivers and teams out there that are really going to be running as hard as they do in today's races. Who better than today's drivers?
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FlFlash
Guest
Goodyear invites the teams they want with NASCAR's consent. Goodyear knows which teams/drivers give them the best feedback and have the required experiance on particular tracks/tires.
I beleive there's now a unwritten rule not to invite Chase contenders to tire test after the Chase starts? There was a bit of controversy over that a few years ago.
I beleive there's now a unwritten rule not to invite Chase contenders to tire test after the Chase starts? There was a bit of controversy over that a few years ago.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Isn't is just as likely that you will be testing tire compounds that WON'T be used as those that WILL be used .Therefore the information that you gain is tainted a little.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Sure that would be true every time. I'd venture to guess that they go there to test multiple tire types and compounds in order to decide which is the best that they use. Tainted? I don't know. Aren't these teams there to give feedback to improve the product? What can they possibly have to gain by giving bad or tainted information?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
My understanding is every manufacturer gets the option to have at least 1 car in each test.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I just meant that the actual info that the team who tested goes away with would be of more value if they knew which tire was going to be used. I'm sure that they get other benefits like drag and stuff.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
My bad..... misunderstood.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Aren't the teams usually given some time to test their stuff as a reward for doing the tire test? I seem to remember drivers and teams getting some free time on the track.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I wonder if the single biggest benifit isn't seat time on actual Nascar tracks.I wonder why Danica and other new drivers aren't first on the teams list .
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FlFlash
Guest
You hit on the big benefit there, I'd bet ALOT more things than tires get tested at Tire Test's. It would be a perfect time to test things not related to tires or chassis in a real world situation.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I don't think Danica and other rookies have the experience to give Goodyear useful feedback. Tony used to be first on their list, until he got cranky and started criticing rather than giving them good feedback.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I'm pretty sure that they banned all team testing, with the exception of tire testing, on tracks that NASCAR competes on. All other tracks are open for testing though.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Some of those teams had a chance to test more than once last year in these tire tests. For an example here's what I see for last years test list.....
Known or reported Goodyear Tire Tests for the 2011 season:
Daytona [new pavement]. 12/15-16: 22 cars tested
Darlington, 2/15: #4-Kahne; others ?
Dover, 4/19: #24-Gordon (Chevy), #43-Allmendinger (Ford), #11-Hamlin (Toyota)
Indianapolis, 5/4-5: #16-Biffle (Ford), #22-Busch (Dodge), #27-Menard (Chevy), #42-Montoya (Chevy), #56-Truex Jr. (Toyota)
Kentucky, 6/1: #00-Reutimann (Toyota), #2-Keselowski (Dodge), #16-Biffle (Ford), #20-Logano (Toyota), #29-Harvick (Chevy), #38-Kvapil (Ford), #5-Martin (Chevy)
Martinsville, 8/16-17: #88-Earnhardt Jr.(Chevy), #31-Burton(Chevy), #6-Ragan(Ford), #2-Keselowski(Dodge), #47-Labonte(Toyota)
Phoenix, 8/29-30: #48-Johnson (Chevy), #14-Stewart (Chevy), #99-Edwards (Ford), #22-Busch (Dodge), #18-Busch (Toyota)
Bristol, 9/27-28: #1-McMurray (Chevy), #9-Marcos Ambrose (Ford), #13-Casey Mears (Toyota), #78-Regan Smith (Chevy)
Auto Club, 10/18: #16-Biffle (Ford), #00-Reutimann (Toyota), #12-Hornish (Dodge), #51-Cassill (Chevy)
Las Vegas, 11/7&9: #43-Allmendinger, #20-Logano, #27-Menard and #42-Montoya
Known or reported Goodyear Tire Tests for the 2011 season:
Daytona [new pavement]. 12/15-16: 22 cars tested
Darlington, 2/15: #4-Kahne; others ?
Dover, 4/19: #24-Gordon (Chevy), #43-Allmendinger (Ford), #11-Hamlin (Toyota)
Indianapolis, 5/4-5: #16-Biffle (Ford), #22-Busch (Dodge), #27-Menard (Chevy), #42-Montoya (Chevy), #56-Truex Jr. (Toyota)
Kentucky, 6/1: #00-Reutimann (Toyota), #2-Keselowski (Dodge), #16-Biffle (Ford), #20-Logano (Toyota), #29-Harvick (Chevy), #38-Kvapil (Ford), #5-Martin (Chevy)
Martinsville, 8/16-17: #88-Earnhardt Jr.(Chevy), #31-Burton(Chevy), #6-Ragan(Ford), #2-Keselowski(Dodge), #47-Labonte(Toyota)
Phoenix, 8/29-30: #48-Johnson (Chevy), #14-Stewart (Chevy), #99-Edwards (Ford), #22-Busch (Dodge), #18-Busch (Toyota)
Bristol, 9/27-28: #1-McMurray (Chevy), #9-Marcos Ambrose (Ford), #13-Casey Mears (Toyota), #78-Regan Smith (Chevy)
Auto Club, 10/18: #16-Biffle (Ford), #00-Reutimann (Toyota), #12-Hornish (Dodge), #51-Cassill (Chevy)
Las Vegas, 11/7&9: #43-Allmendinger, #20-Logano, #27-Menard and #42-Montoya
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I'll try and find something, but I'm not saying teams are allowed a full blown test. I'm fairly sure they are allowed one session during each tire test to try some new setups, etc. But they will gain info on what adjustments do to the car during the tire test, and that will be somewhat usefull no matter what compound is chosen.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I'd bet you're correct about them being able to use their own setups. I don't think it'd be a valid test otherwise.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Yep, which is why I was surprised when you mentioned the ban on testing.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I was simply talking about non tire tests. I thought for a minute that you were saying that the teams were rewarded somehow by being given additional test sessions or something. I think I'm having issue with my comprehension today. I need a nap or something.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I was simply talking about non tire tests. I thought for a minute that you were saying that the teams were rewarded somehow by being given additional test sessions or something. I think I'm having issue with my comprehension today. I need a nap or something.
lol I've been there.
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FlFlash
Guest
The ban on testing started in 2009 but it's just for tracks the Cup/NW and Truck teams race at. They still test at Rockingham , South Georgia, New Symrna, Road Atlanta, Virgina, Pikes Peak etc plus the manufacturers proving grounds get some usage.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I think that the testing ban ended up costing more than actual testing. It was replaced by 7 post, a bunch of engineers and expensive track simulation data. Now the little teams are truely screwed. NASCAR should consider organizing group testing at schedule tracks within 1 days driving distance from Charolette for ONLY the teams that don't have access to 7 post data. Having 10 or 15 small teams share track expenses would keep costs down.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Wow ,that sounds like a great idea there Fender.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Really? That's the first time someone agreed with me on that subject. I was starting to get worried.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Did you want me to report them to the moderator?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
??? You lost me.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
You said noone would agree with you.I thought I might help sort out the problem of the others being mean to you by reporting them to the forum monitor. .Perhaps then ,you ideas would get the respect that they are due...Or not.
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FlFlash
Guest
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
You said noone would agree with you.I thought I might help sort out the problem of the others being mean to you by reporting them to the forum monitor. .Perhaps then ,you ideas would get the respect that they are due...Or not.
Mean? Noone?
That took way too much explaining. Try to reel those comments in a little, would ya?
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MOEJOE
Guest
Im so friggin lost.... 
If memory serves me correctly, testing teams are allowed to set up their cars with the compound used the year before. After the car is set up, no adjustments are allowed. Goodyear puts on the tires, the cars run a certain number of laps, and data taken. Repeat for as many compounds were brought to be tested.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Im so friggin lost....
lol me too. Flashes conga line didn't help either. Almost gave me a seizure.
SST, as far as unfair advantage, I don't see one --- since the teams cannot adjust the car to the compounds being considered. And, the tested compounds may NOT be the race compound brought to the track for the race.
The teams are really just test dummies.
The teams are really just test dummies.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
No worries, your memory is intact. I sent a question via Twitter to Larry McReynolds about this subject yesterday and he replied with the following.....
@LarryMac28 said:
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FlFlash
Guest
Seems to me the Big value to a team is you can show up at the track and test things you would not want to try under normal situations and under the Eye's of all the other teams. Things not necassarily related to chassis set up.
In most private test's there's not enough laps on the track to get it to come in so the tire test are a much more real world testing situation and it gives you a chance to see how set-ups change under changing track conditions.
Getting any opportunity to work on team communication and strategy implementation is always good.
In most private test's there's not enough laps on the track to get it to come in so the tire test are a much more real world testing situation and it gives you a chance to see how set-ups change under changing track conditions.
Getting any opportunity to work on team communication and strategy implementation is always good.
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SST55
Guest
TRL, seat time is a advantage. Plus tracks do change, a little bump here that wasn't there last year, a big bump that's been ground down, new sealer in the cracks/joints. Add in the little tweaks done to the car and it's a big advantage just to get those extra laps. IMHO of course.