Top-35 rule unfair and unnecessary

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Texas always brings about Gossage opening his mouth. This time I like what he's saying.

Take a quick visit to my fantasy land of make-believe -- the place where the Sprint Cup race at Texas Motor Speedway this Saturday night has no guaranteed spots.

That's right. This racing wonderland is a track where you post one of the fastest 43 qualifying laps or it's off with your head -- as in pack up and head off to the next race.

Now wouldn't that be a glorious little utopia? A paradise where no one gets a free pass but everyone gets a fair shot. It's a kingdom where the same opportunity applies to royalty such as Dale Earnhardt Jr. and to commoners such as Robert Richardson.

That top-35 rule, NASCAR's own little Augusta National for exclusive members, would not exist.

"But even Tiger Woods still has to make cut at the Masters," TMS president Eddie Gossage said. "That's the whole point."

In my little racing Shangri-la, fans would head to the track for a qualifying session knowing their favorite driver had to earn a spot in the show rather than just show up.
Gossage would love to reside in that world.

"Qualifying really doesn't have tremendous meaning now, and fans know it," Gossage said. "Ending this rule certainly would help sell more tickets on Fridays for the qualifying sessions."
Unfortunately, that is not the real world, the one where 35 drivers go to each event knowing they are in the race even if they run their qualifying lap backward at 10 mph.

The top-35 rule (guaranteeing a spot to the top 35 cars in team owner points) is a protection device that ensures little danger exists except for those teams not in the top 35.

"The top-35 rule was a good move for us when we put it in place [in 2005], and it has served the sport well," said Kerry Tharp, NASCAR's senior director of communications. "A lot of it was a function of trying to help with new teams that were coming on board and also add another layer of success for teams that have been earning their way."

However, Tharp also said NASCAR officials realize that things change and that the rule could be altered in the future.

"We know it's a rule that generates a lot of debate, particularly with our fans," Tharp said. "As we do with all of our rules and regulations, we will continue to review it to make sure it's best for the sport."

The intent of the rule is clear, as Gossage points out.
"I understand NASCAR's intention to give big-name drivers and sponsors some level of protection," Gossage said. "But most fans would tell you what they prefer is open competition, the fastest 43 make the field."

I'm not so sure about that on the fans' side. The legion of Earnhardt fans might riot if their hero failed to make the show, especially the ones who paid hard-earned money to sit in the grandstands for that event.

It sounds great in theory, until it affects your driver. But sport isn't about guarantees. It's about competing.

Eliminating the top-35 rule is long overdue. The race in Martinsville showed two more reasons it needs to go:

• Tony Raines, who wasn't in a top-35 car, made the show on speed, but his car was too low in a post-qualifying inspection. His qualifying time was disallowed, and J.J. Yeley took his spot in the field.

That one-race death penalty doesn't happen if a car is in the top 35. Clint Bowyer's car was too low at Daytona and his time was disallowed, but his top-35 ranking kept his car in the race.

So one car is kicked out of the race and one car isn't for the same violation based off where each ranks in the standings.

• The top-35 rule also came into play at the end, when David Reutimann stayed on the track with a wounded machine before the car stopped running. Reutimann was doing all he could to stay in the top 35 in points, which is his job while driving the No. 10 Chevy on the weekends Danica Patrick isn't driving it. Reutimann said later that he did it for himself, not Patrick.

Reutimann unfairly became the goat of the day. His car stopped on the track, forcing a green-white-checkered finish that altered the outcome, keeping Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson (who were battling for the victory) from winning.

But the blame goes to the top-35 rule, not Reutimann. The rule was on his mind when he tried to keep the car going. He knew the team was on the bubble for a top-35 spot. As it turned out, the car is one point outside the top 35 heading to Texas.

Forcing a team to fight for 35th in points is preposterous. It's also the cause of the controversial point swaps between teams, usually in the offseason, to make sure a driver has a guaranteed spot. That was the case with Patrick this year and the deal Stewart-Haas Racing made with Tommy Baldwin's team.

This entire top-35 nonsense must end. I'm a radical on this and feel every driver should get in on speed or go home. I also know that isn't going to happen.

NASCAR isn't going to risk having Earnhardt or Tony Stewart or Carl Edwards or any other big star miss the race by wrecking in qualifying.

NASCAR also doesn't want big-money sponsors missing the race, but at least nix this top-35 rule and allow only a couple of exceptions.

For example, the top 43 on speed get in unless a driver in the top 25 isn't among them. Each driver has two provisionals (or mulligans) a year in the unlikely occurrence he or she needs help to make the field.

The chances of any of these drivers needing two freebies in one season is about as high as one of them hitting a jet dryer under caution -- sorry, Juan.

But it's time for NASCAR to evolve past this rule, which is unfair, unjustified and unneeded.
"Our sport always responds to the fans, so I hope [NASCAR] will consider it," Gossage said. "Adding some drama is a good thing."
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From here.
 
My biggest issue with this is I don't want to see someone like Stewart/Junior/Gordon etc etc miss the race just to have Tony Raines or some other start and park car race around in the back for 10 laps and then park it for the day.

It would be different if everyone was competitive, but they just aren't.
 
From my couch, I want to see them qualify.

From the standpoint of a future ticket buyer, I want my guy to have a guaranteed seat.

If I save for 5 years to go to M-ville for a week, and JJ has a flat tire during his qualifying lap and hits something, I would be the most pist off guy there. I don't want that, and I don't need it.

But then again, I will be on my couch every Friday night, Sat afternoon watching qualifying and wishing theses guys would try harder.

But this is a good point as well:

StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing said:
My biggest issue with this is I don't want to see someone like Stewart/Junior/Gordon etc etc miss the race just to have Tony Raines or some other start and park car race around in the back for 10 laps and then park it for the day.

It would be different if everyone was competitive, but they just aren't.
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If all the cars were competitive, it would make sense to me.

Qualifying for F1 is critical, while NASCAR, it's not really that important.
 
Could you imaging how the ratings would fall if any of the top drivers missed the race?
I wish we could have ONLY 43 full time teams race every weekend...all race long
 
Tell me please that some of you were around before the top 35 rule was implemented. There was no mass exodus of top drivers going home because of qualifying issues. It simply didn't happen then and it would happen now either. There were safeguards in place that would have prevented those top teams from going home. The same could be the case again today. People will bring up Richard Petty packing up and going home because of it. Why did that happen? It happened because he repeatably sucked week after week in qualifying.
 
I think the top 35 is a joke. It's way to many to be locked in, and as we witnessed last weekend, to much emphasis on it. (Yep....I went there....so?) I understand we have to protect the big names, they're the ones fans come to see. I don't want to see Jeff Gordon's hauler leaving after qualifying after spending my hard earned money to see him race. There has to be a better solution the. Locking in 35 cars for 43 spots. Then you got provisionals added to that. I'd like to see the top 35 rule go. Don't have the answer other than less cars guaranteed in and a revamp of the provisionals spots.
 
I never heard a guy say, "If Casey Mears doesn't make the race, Im not going."

But if it was "If Jr doesn't make the race, Im not going", there would be empty seats.

A lot of JR fans in the past have been the "he's out so we might as well go home" crowd.
 
If Casey Mears doesn't make a race I'm not going.
 
I know a hell of a lot of golfers that stopped watching golf when Tiger left and guess what , they all started watching again two weeks ago when he started winning again. Fact of life , if the stars aren't in the show then there's no reason to watch. You want to know what Nascar is without Tony,Dale,Kyle ,Carl , Brad , etc ? ARCA
 
ted@economy said:
I know a hell of a lot of golfers that stopped watching golf when Tiger left and guess what , they all started watching again two weeks ago when he started winning again. Fact of life , if the stars aren't in the show then there's no reason to watch. You want to know what Nascar is without Tony,Dale,Kyle ,Carl , Brad , etc ? ARCA
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I agree. I also agree 35 is too many to be locked in. I think top 15 or maybe 25 should be the limit. Then have a provisional for recent champions and last years winner (or highest finisher) something to that effect. Terry Labonte shouldn't be given a spot for a champions provisional from 1996. DW beat the champions provisional to death for years also. I understand the top 35 makes it easier for some to attract some sponsorships, but at the same time it's taking from the sport when so many are locked in and guys are showing up just for that. I wouldn't be against locking in the top 15 and shortening the field to 36. Start and parks don't add to the show. What's the point of starting 43 cars if on lap 10 we're down to 35? With some rule changes to protect the top guys, we wouldn't have to worry about big names not racing. Dale Earnhardt JR has never used a provisional spot to start a race. I can recall Jeff using one years ago, don't know of any others but I'm gonna check.  A provisional start should bot be used to prolong a career though as it has for so many.
 
The Racers that are in the Top 35 are the Fastest racers, Thats why their in the Top 35!

They have the Best Cars the Best Teams the Best Drivers and the Best Sponsor/Most $$$'s You take away the Top 35 rule and you know what? The Same racers/teams are Still going to be the Fastest and the same racers are still going to struggle to get in.....won't make a damn bit of difference.
The only thing I see good about the Top 35 rule is that teams can approach potential sponsor's and say Look we are Locked in to the first 5 races and possibly get a deal going with that Guarantee in their pocket.
Other than that I'd like to see it GONE give the teams that finished in the top 35 the previous year a qualifying mulligan or two and make qualifying mean something again!

Then Gossage would make a few more precious bucks off the fans because they'd show up for qualifying, you do see where he's coming from right?
 
I think it's smart for NASCAR to protect the teams and sponsors that fully commit to the sport.
As far as S&P teams? Get over it. If they qualify for the race they are free to run as few laps as they choose.
 
What is Casey Atwood doing these days?
 
I think the top 12 should be locked in, that's it. Make the Chase and you're guaranteed a spot in the Daytona 500.

Of course, I'd rather see the welfare points system canceled along with the welfare top-35 rule.
 
Matthew2470 said:
I think it's smart for NASCAR to protect the teams and sponsors that fully commit to the sport.
As far as S&P teams? Get over it. If they qualify for the race they are free to run as few laps as they choose.
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As things stand now, I agree. But I like the analogy of Tiger having to make the cut in order to play on Sunday. I would have a "problem" with an S&P driver taking the spot of a driver who runs for wins. But I also take issue with the fact that there are only 8 available starting spots (7 if you count the PCP).

I would like to see qualifying become something more important than which pit stall a team gets.
 
Also, if Tony Stewart and company are so worried that Danica Patrick can't outqualify drivers like Tony Raines or Josh Wise who are running in racecars operating on 1/10th the budget and have far less speed, maybe that should be a clue that she doesn't belong in the Sprint Cup Series.

Every driver that shows up should have an equal chance to make the race, just like golf and drag racing. Nobody should be sent home when they outqualify 5+ cars.
 
They could go back to two days of qualifying and that would help insure the top dogs were given two chances to make the race. I can still remember back when, I believe it was Penske's cars, one of them was the winner of the race the year before, totally missed the race because of qualifying. I think it was Al Unser Jr. and teammate? And that was with four days of qualifying.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Also, if Tony Stewart and company are so worried that Danica Patrick can't outqualify drivers like Tony Raines or Josh Wise who are running in racecars operating on 1/10th the budget and have far less speed, maybe that should be a clue that she doesn't belong in the Sprint Cup Series.

Every driver that shows up should have an equal chance to make the race, just like golf and drag racing. Nobody should be sent home when they outqualify 5+ cars.
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It's more to do with rain outs than anything. And it's good business to make sure a big money driver and sponsor make the show. At the end of the day NASCAR is a business and all the teams, drivers, crews and sponsors are there because they want to turn a profit.
 
The Top 35 rule is not in place for Racing reasons. It's purpose is to guarantee that the cars with the big sponsors will make the race every week.
 
And Eddie Gossage is just pulling his pre-race attention whoring the same as every Texas race.
 
FlFlash said:
The Racers that are in the Top 35 are the Fastest racers, Thats why their in the Top 35!

They have the Best Cars the Best Teams the Best Drivers and the Best Sponsor/Most $$$'s You take away the Top 35 rule and you know what? The Same racers/teams are Still going to be the Fastest and the same racers are still going to struggle to get in.....won't make a damn bit of difference.
The only thing I see good about the Top 35 rule is that teams can approach potential sponsor's and say Look we are Locked in to the first 5 races and possibly get a deal going with that Guarantee in their pocket.
Other than that I'd like to see it GONE give the teams that finished in the top 35 the previous year a qualifying mulligan or two and make qualifying mean something again!

Then Gossage would make a few more precious bucks off the fans because they'd show up for qualifying, you do see where he's coming from right?
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There has been times when a go home car has qualified faster than others in the top 35 and have gone home. They don't start the fastest 43 cars all the time.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
There has been times when a go home car has qualified faster than others in the top 35 and have gone home. They don't start the fastest 43 cars all the time.
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And there's the problem. Let teams write their sponsor contracts to account for not qualifying and let everyone take the same risk each week.
 
FenderBumper said:
And there's the problem. Let teams write their sponsor contracts to account for not qualifying and let everyone take the same risk each week.
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Yeah ,sponsors are that easy to come by. Tell em take it or leave it . We want big business out of sport. ..Oh please.
 
ted@economy said:
Yeah ,sponsors are that easy to come by. Tell em take it or leave it . We want big business out of sport. ..Oh please.
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Take it or leave it? o_O

I don't believe that the top 35 rule is for sponsors as much as it's for teams wanting a fixed revenue stream. I can't see a sponsor having a problem with getting a refund on the off chance the car doesn't race. But then the owner would have to foot the bill for showing up and then going home.

Get the picture?
 
FenderBumper said:
And there's the problem. Let teams write their sponsor contracts to account for not qualifying and let everyone take the same risk each week.
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The main reason the top 35 rule exists is to protect the sponsors. Protecting the sponsors protects the teams. It's about protecting those who have taken significant financial risks on order to be part of the sport.
 
FenderBumper said:
Take it or leave it? o_O
I can't see a sponsor having a problem with getting a refund on the off chance the car doesn't race.
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A refund? Nascar will give a refund ? I think you better clear that with Brian and get back to us .
 
Matthew2470 said:
The main reason the top 35 rule exists is to protect the sponsors. Protecting the sponsors protects the teams. It's about protecting those who have taken significant financial risks on order to be part of the sport.
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How does it protect the sponsor? Maybe I'm missing something. Explain.
 
FenderBumper said:
How does it protect the sponsor? Maybe I'm missing something. Explain.
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I just looked at the owners points. If NASCAR only locked in 25 there would be 2 fully funded cars not locked in, Casey Mears and Kasey Kahne. If you count the BK Racing cars it's 4, although they are looking for sponsors as the investment team that bought it owns plenty of Burger Kings and that's why it's on the car.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
There has been times when a go home car has qualified faster than others in the top 35 and have gone home. They don't start the fastest 43 cars all the time.
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Thats with the Top 35 rule in effect, what I'm saying if you get rid of the Top 35 rule the same cars/teams will be fast. The reason go or go homers have out qualified Top 35 cars now is the Go or Go Home guys Have to put all their effort into qualifying to get in the race on speed so their on qualifying set ups while the Top 35 guys are setting up for race conditions and running race set ups in qualifying.
 
I would like to see it go back to the provisional system. Atleast the drivers knew prior to qualifying they had to be 38th place or better, not better than this guy and that guy who could be in the top 10 or in 40th. I say fastest 40 race, the last 3 spots are provisional spots, and each team only get 3 provisionals a season, if you have to use a provisional to make the Daytona 500, Phoenix, and Vegas you better get your s**t together for the remainder of the season.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I just looked at the owners points. If NASCAR only locked in 25 there would be 2 fully funded cars not locked in, Casey Mears and Kasey Kahne. If you count the BK Racing cars it's 4, although they are looking for sponsors as the investment team that bought it owns plenty of Burger Kings and that's why it's on the car.
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IF one of the asey's missed a race, do you think their sponsor would drop them? Would it kill their company to miss one race? Or would they simply expect to not have to pay for a race the car failed to race in? Does a sponsor decide to support a team because it's in the top 35, or because it's capable of doing better?

Isn't TV money shared only with the top 35? I read somewhere that teams get 30% of the TV money, and most of that comes in purse money, but some is payments that aren't talked about often. Anyone know anything about this?
 
I didn't like the provisional system but it's better than what we have now. Used to be that there were 38 positions up for grabs and there was a safety net for contenders. Realistically, if a Dale Earnhardt, Jr. or a Danica Patrick can't qualify inside the top 38 10+ times and uses all their provisionals, they shouldn't be in the race. Drivers shouldn't have to worry about qualifying 32nd out of 48 cars and going home because someone bought a top-35 spot.

The provisional system was complicated, the top 35 situation is even more complicated with all the points buying and points swapping. I was furious Timmy Hill was sent home at Phoenix because he outqualified two drivers that quite literally bought their way in to the race.
 
I would still prefer the old provisional system. Then again, I miss 2nd round qualifying too. Things change.
 
I'll wager that Earnhardt Jr. not qualifying for a race gets his sponsors more air time than does running 35th, 3 laps down or even crashing out in the opening laps.

Maybe it's time more incentive was added to qualify well.
 
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