Truck Series Rule Changes

BobbyFord

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New rules from NASCAR to help teams with costs: With the goal being to preserve the competitive racing that the Camping World Truck Series is known for among race fans, while at the same time help teams save money; NASCAR has issued new rules for the 2009 season. A brief synopsis is a follows:
-- After March 25th, teams will not be permitted to compete in more than three consecutive events without running a sealed engine. [Meaning teams cannot run four races in a row without using an engine that has been previously run by an engine builder and sealed by NASCAR.] Once a team uses a sealed engine, the count starts over again. For example, a team owner may decide to run only two races before using a sealed engine; at that point, the three consecutive count starts over.
-- Team owners make the initial decision what race they want an engine sealed, and at the discretion of the NASCAR Competition Director, the engine will be sealed. Seals will be installed and removed by NASCAR officials only.
-- Teams will be limited to five over-the-wall pit crew members for pit stops, whether under green or yellow conditions. Teams will not be allowed to fuel and change tires during the same pit stop. Teams can stop any time, under green or yellow conditions, and perform anything they would normally do during a pit stop; they just will not be allowed to do gas and tires at the same time. At one point, competition cautions were considered, however limiting the number of over-the-wall crew members seemed a more viable option. As a result, pit strategy may prove to be in the mix during many races.
-- The crew chief must designate a maximum of twelve active crew members to attend each race. Active crew members include the crew chief, driver, spotter, plus nine other people actively turning wrenches on the truck. Team owners, public relations representatives, and guests are not included in the numbers.(1-30-2009)
 
Gas or tires, what bar were they in when they come up with this brillant idea???

Trying to figure how a sealed motor is going to save owners money?
 
I could understand not fuel/tires at the same time, but at the same stop? WTF?

Agree with both of you...
 
Gas or tires, what bar were they in when they come up with this brillant idea???

:cuckoo:

How's that gonna work?

Are they going to go make one pit stop and fill up with gas and then pit for tires the next lap?

Sounds like someone hit the bong one too many times. :puffin:
 
:cuckoo:

How's that gonna work?

Are they going to go make one pit stop and fill up with gas and then pit for tires the next lap?

Sounds like someone hit the bong one too many times. :puffin:
like i said, i could understand if they went road racing style, where you fuel up, then change tires. but to have a gass and go followed by a tire change, what are they thinking? Going to make the good teams better, and bad teams worse. putting more load on pit row.
 
I really don't understand that rule makes no sense to me, it wil be mass confusion on pit lane.
 
I read somewhere earlier in the week that was being considered. Unless they are limiting the number of tires, these teams will pit once for tires, then come in again for fuel the next time around except late in the race. I don't see where that saves money.

The sealed engine is a good idea as long as no one bends the rules.:rolleyes:
 
I read somewhere earlier in the week that was being considered. Unless they are limiting the number of tires, these teams will pit once for tires, then come in again for fuel the next time around except late in the race. I don't see where that saves money.

The sealed engine is a good idea as long as no one bends the rules.:rolleyes:
Hendrick doesnt have a truck that i know of (Landon Cassill??) that would have reason to cheat. Plus Knaus/Letarte dont deal in pick em ups.
 
You would think but of course NASCAR isnt going to learn sealed engines means the owner finds out who is building the engines. Writes a check and the engine is built the same as every other engine the team has ran the only difference is there is a piss ass little lead seal on the head covers. Its what happens in every sealed engine race around no matter what you do the money will always talk with sealed engines. I know people in my area that do this for people who race with sealed engine rules.
 
what would have been a better idea, was allow gas/fuel during same stop, but still onyl 5 over the wall. THAT would make things interesting. Then it would be like grand am, where you have 2 fueling, 2 tire carriers, but only one guy with an impact gun.
 
what would have been a better idea, was allow gas/fuel during same stop, but still onyl 5 over the wall. THAT would make things interesting. Then it would be like grand am, where you have 2 fueling, 2 tire carriers, but only one guy with an impact gun.

Yes why don't they do it that way, the other way that they are suggesting makes absolutely no sense. It would put more traffic on pit lane. They should go back to the old way, a half way point time out where the teams get to work on their trucks. I believe they did this in the Craftsman truck series for the first 2-3 years. I thought it was kind of cool, plus it was like half time during a football game......lol. Keep the races relatively short 100-150 miles and do it the old way.
 
maybe they should do something really crazy and leave the truck series alone for awhile. it only provides their best racing at the moment. go screw up something else.
 
Thats what is eatting them alive. They cant stand that a "lower series" in there eyes has better racing on tv then there supposed to be best of the best CUP series
 
Am I getting this?

So now the best fastest TRUCK and the best fastest DRIVER don't matter any more.. It is all on the PIT CREW.. So now the pit crew will draw more salary than the driver or the engineers back at the shop..
Yep!, Nother great move by NASCAR..
Couldn't they have got near the same results by allowing only a 12 gallon fuel tank?
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Thats what is eatting them alive. They cant stand that a "lower series" in there eyes has better racing on tv then there supposed to be best of the best CUP series

Yep i agree, the trucks always put on a good show IMO.
 
So now the best fastest TRUCK and the best fastest DRIVER don't matter any more.. It is all on the PIT CREW.. So now the pit crew will draw more salary than the driver or the engineers back at the shop..
Yep!, Nother great move by NASCAR..
Couldn't they have got near the same results by allowing only a 12 gallon fuel tank?
Betsy:rolleyes:

Yeh you would think, but the only 5 over the wall is kind of weird too. I just don't see where this scenario will make this series better or save an exuberant amount of money.
 
Before and after the SB "da boys" where having a discussion regarding these changes. I readily admit there was a ample supply of adult beverages but discussion centered around the gas or tires rule. It needs a lot clarification.

The sealed engine rule, WTF? Does this mean I have to take a motor I've built to a approved builder so he can tear it down, check for it being legal, learn my super secret secrets then assemble and seal. What's going to keep him from spreading my secrets around or using them in motors he builds?

Most agree this will or might lead to a "crate" engine in the not too distant future. If it happens in trucks it'll find it's way into the Busch series then just a short leap into Cup.

Then we'll have the same motors in the same approved chassis with sheet metal that fits a common template. But they will have different paint schemes.:sarcasm:
 
Crate engine would mean nothing in the engine would be yours. You would have to buy a whole new motor off an approved builder that you know nothing about except what the dyno sheet it comes with says. At least that't how its done in alot of local asphalt tracks.

The problem comes when the owners find out who is building the motors and start sneaking checks saying "build it good" with a wink. :rolleyes:
 
Before and after the SB "da boys" where having a discussion regarding these changes. I readily admit there was a ample supply of adult beverages but discussion centered around the gas or tires rule. It needs a lot clarification.

The sealed engine rule, WTF? Does this mean I have to take a motor I've built to a approved builder so he can tear it down, check for it being legal, learn my super secret secrets then assemble and seal. What's going to keep him from spreading my secrets around or using them in motors he builds?

Most agree this will or might lead to a "crate" engine in the not too distant future. If it happens in trucks it'll find it's way into the Busch series then just a short leap into Cup.

Then we'll have the same motors in the same approved chassis with sheet metal that fits a common template. But they will have different paint schemes.:sarcasm:

Yep we were having this same discussion yesterday over a few cold ones down at the local pub. We too felt it wouldn't be long before the CRATE motors would be introduced. I personally don't think CRATE motors have a place in the upper echelon of NASCAR.
 
Crate engine would mean nothing in the engine would be yours. You would have to buy a whole new motor off an approved builder that you know nothing about except what the dyno sheet it comes with says. At least that't how its done in alot of local asphalt tracks.

The problem comes when the owners find out who is building the motors and start sneaking checks saying "build it good" with a wink. :rolleyes:

Or with a few $$$;)
 
Therein lies the problem. No two motors built as exactly as humanly possible will produce the same HP and torque.

Local guy, Nate Cheveton, who at one time built most of the V-6's for the Busch North series. It was not unusual to find one motor which produced more HP and/or torque built exactly the same as others. Those motors, which were legal, went to top teams who couild afford the extra $$$.

That's why I say crate motors won't work. Build your own motor, stay within the rules, (or try:) ) and accept the consequences if it fails tech.

My personel best, a 2.5 liter bored to 158 ci produced 278 HP. And it was 100% legal by Na$car specs and tests, :p

<edit> what they don't know won't hurt them,,,,,,
 
Therein lies the problem. No two motors built as exactly as humanly possible will produce the same HP and torque.

Local guy, Nate Cheveton, who at one time built most of the V-6's for the Busch North series. It was not unusual to find one motor which produced more HP and/or torque built exactly the same as others. Those motors, which were legal, went to top teams who couild afford the extra $$$.

That's why I say crate motors won't work. Build your own motor, stay within the rules, (or try:) ) and accept the consequences if it fails tech.

My personel best, a 2.5 liter bored to 158 ci produced 278 HP. And it was 100% legal by Na$car specs and tests, :p

<edit> what they don't know won't hurt them,,,,,,

Cool nice job!
 
If they went crate motors, i'd be wanting them at east be OEM built- a GM 5.7/350 crate, ford 5.7/351 crate, toyota 5.7 iForce crate, and a dodge 5.7 hemi crate.
 
I hope it never happens, i like the "grey area" myself. It provides more inovation, after all isn't that what racing is all about?
 
If they went crate motors, i'd be wanting them at east be OEM built- a GM 5.7/350 crate, ford 5.7/351 crate, toyota 5.7 iForce crate, and a dodge 5.7 hemi crate.

And what fun would that be?? Cookie cutter engines in a cookie cutter car running on cookie cutter tracks. I want to see ingenuity, I want to be able to put 351 Cleveland pistons in my 2.5 liter Chevy and alter the pin hole size and location. I want to be able to change the valve location and geometry by some ingenious back yard engineering, canting the valves making a faux hemi head. I want to call Lunati and tell them I want a cam with this lift, centerline etc not somethig off the shelve. If it works fine, if not it's my money. I want Barry Grant to to his voodoo that he does so well, a 350 cfm Holley that does 450+ cfm. That still passes Na$car guages too. At a cost however.

I want to play within the rules, extending them into the gray area if need be. Paying the penalty if caught.

That's was racing then. Not today however. We all have to wear suits and ties and be nice,,,,f that. Just my humble opinion of course,,,,,,,

FWIW built a mofified that when sittin in the shop only had 3 wheels on the ground,,but could that sumbeech run,,,, :)
 
And what fun would that be?? Cookie cutter engines in a cookie cutter car running on cookie cutter tracks. I want to see ingenuity, I want to be able to put 351 Cleveland pistons in my 2.5 liter Chevy and alter the pin hole size and location. I want to be able to change the valve location and geometry by some ingenious back yard engineering, canting the valves making a faux hemi head. I want to call Lunati and tell them I want a cam with this lift, centerline etc not somethig off the shelve. If it works fine, if not it's my money. I want Barry Grant to to his voodoo that he does so well, a 350 cfm Holley that does 450+ cfm. That still passes Na$car guages too. At a cost however.

I want to play within the rules, extending them into the gray area if need be. Paying the penalty if caught.

That's was racing then. Not today however. We all have to wear suits and ties and be nice,,,,f that. Just my humble opinion of course,,,,,,,

FWIW built a mofified that when sittin in the shop only had 3 wheels on the ground,,but could that sumbeech run,,,, :)
not that would be an image to see...
 
The other thing with crates is big money teams have been known to buy like 10 crate motors dyno them all out take the best one and sell the rest off. It wont be a money saving affair by any means but i guess nascar knows better than the rest of the racing world.:rolleyes:
 
http://autoracingsport.com/nascar/n...gine-be-ready-for-100-point-penalty-and-more/

NASCAR considers tampering with the engine seals a major offense and worthy of a penalty of “a minimum of 100 championship driver and truck owner points,” according to a bulletin available in the Camping World Truck Series garage today.

NASCAR added wording to its harshest penalty provision to include any alteration, modification or repair of any part that has been “sealed” by NASCAR in addition to the existing wording about altering or changing anything previously certified. NASCAR also added that it could confiscate race equipment as a penalty for messing with a sealed engine. Other potential penalties would be fines, disqualification, probation and suspension.

---

Guess they aint kiddin round? 100 points and 100K ya think?
 
ray dunlap just explained the sealed rule.

It's basically a cable padlock that prevents the removal of cylinder heads and water pump.
 
Well I do understand trying to make it cheaper to keep the series afloat, but not sure this is going to work out all that well.
 
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