Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by aunty dive, Apr 6, 2019.
@Kiante always the voice of reason. Totally agree with this post.
I appreciate it, but I will agree with @DaBiff1618 on one aspect. Bubba had opprotunties to win races in Xfinity, but he didn't capitalize on said moments. He got moved out of the way by Buescher at Dover in '15, had opprotunities to win at Road America and Mid-Ohio. Maybe about four or five races he could have won IMHO and if he would have won in that 6 car, his stock would be much higher in this case.
Just right now it sucks to see RPM and the King struggle. I know he hates it and honestly all fans would hate to see the 43 go away. Just continue to keep cars clean and do the best he can every weekend, if Bubba can keep the cars clean, I think RPM has a chance to stay open. Its just, I want to see this man succeed with them.
Something big needs to happen or RPM will be gone.
The drivers of today need to be so much more than just drivers. They need to be able to sell themselves, appeal to a diverse group of people, work a room and not be bothered by sponsor commitments. Even if they do all those things well it is still no guarantee they can obtain and maintain sponsorship.
Driving for a Nascar team is not a meritocracy as being able to ring the cash register is paramount. If Bubba is waiting for someone to find him a sponsor he may wait a long time. He needs to do his part and if driving in the top series is important enough he will need to work hard and find someone. If he can get a sponsor he can take them to a new team.
I don’t disagree with DaBiff either. I’m just disputing the narrative by a couple of posters here that the 43 would be up front with any driver but Bubba. Which is flat out wrong. The team is mired in 30th place because they’re on the verge of folding.
I like Bubba but he is where he is cause of himself to an extent. He never could capitalize on his success driving Kyle’s trucks. He had basically 3 seasons in Roush’s cars and couldn’t get to victory lane. If he would’ve won when the opportunities knocked, he’d have a better ride than he does. I hope it works out for him. He’s a talented guy and a personality the sport needs.
Unfortunately I think RPM is toast. Unless a sponsor shows up soon or something drastic happens.
I like Bubba, he has a great personality, and talent, but not sure he is a top tier driver, and it would be nice to see RPM get some better funding to make their cars a bit more competitive .
Charter cars have to run the full year
Naming the drivers who broke into Cup racing by buying the ride or bringing the sponsor...
1. ChevyTeams... Hendrick
Johnson = No
Elliott = No
Bowman = No
Byron = No
Childress plus affiliates
Austin Dillon = No
Hemric = No
Bubba Wallace = No
Ty Dillon = No
(Being born into a family team helps the Dillons like it helped Richard Petty in the 1960s, but it doesn't ring the cash register.)
Larson = No
Busch = No
Buescher = No
Preece = No
2. Ford Teams... StewRt Haas
Harvick = No
Bowyer = No
Almirola = No
Suarez = Yes sorta (sponsored foreign national)
Penske plus Wood Brothers
Keselowski = No
Logano = No
Blaney = No
Menard = Yes (the first true example)
Roush Fenway and affiliated
Stenhouse = No
Newman = No
McDowell = No
Ragan = No
So there's one good example... Paul Menard. I say Cup racing qualifies as a meritocracy.
Oops I forgot the Toyota teams... Busch, Hamlin, Jones, Truex, and Dibenedetto... no, no, no, no and no.
You can say it all you want but anyone with money to burn can go racing. Anyone with money to burn cannot play pro sports.
The question is, how long will he have it?
Pretty sure he was a part of the " drive for diversity " program, that should help keep him in a car.
I agree with your overall point and you make it well with the breakdown. The vast majority of Cup drivers are in their seats based on merit and performance, either previous or anticipated. There have been more ride buyers and / or undeserving nepotism cases at the Xfinity and Truck levels through the years. It's awfully hard to justify lack of performance at the Cup level for very long.
If I were playing devil's advocate, I would point out that Almirola brought significant sponsorship with him to SHR that likely helped him get that ride. However, IMO he has more than proven his ability to drive at a high level considering the team's prior performance.
The Drive for Diversity program is about increasing minority driver participation at the developmental level. Nobody has ever been assisted by that program to secure or keep a Cup seat.
Being part of that program is a plus for a driver and whether you know it or admit it, it does have an effect on decisions.
You can say it all you want but clearly, the only driver with a Cup seat purchased with burnt money is Paul Menard.
Seems to be a wild over-generalization. Which pro sports? Like tennis or golf or any number of individual athletics, where most modern pros and serious prospects are starting right out of toddlerhood with expensive lessons and training regimens? Other than soccer and perhaps basketball, which have been known for having a low barrier of entry, most team sports require major family investment if one is remotely serious about making a 'career' of it.
The Driver becomes the face of their NASCAR sponsor -- so I don't know how you separate the two or make the distinction. Teams need money to race -- two examples of no dedicated "outside" corporate sponsorship was Kurt Busch (becoming toxic for awhile, so Haas stepped in to fund the car) and Josh Wise who went the crowd funding source (probably with other small sponsors aboard, whatever).
From watching NASCAR coverage for decades, one thing appeared consistent -- drivers and their organizations/teams cultivated relationships and in later years applied dedicated resources to get sponsors and maintain those relationships to keep them providing resources for organization/team race programs. Tony Stewart has spoken about this -- having worn multiple hats.
I don't know if one can say that every driver in Cup is there due to being the top choice based on merit, and therefore the current field is the best the globe can offer. But you can say that every driver on the track is running the race because they were able to secure sufficient resources.
Menard had to earn everything from his family as well. Menard may have been born into a racing family, but he had to earn his dad's support.
That's quite hard to come by. The money made it easier, but Menard is no slouch of a driver.
Many drivers have forged strong relationships with team sponsors, and wind up sticking together. It's been going on from the beginning of sponsorship. That's why my post specified drivers *breaking into* Cup racing. Almirola arrived in Cup as an un-sponsored prospect.
As you point out, the minor leagues are a very different deal. Racing doesn't have a well developed system funded by taxpayers to nurture young athletes and develop their skills... which the mainstream stick & ball sports have. So the young athletes and their families have to pay the tuition. Many niche sports are the same, as you said.
You posted that getting a shot at Cup racing is based on bringing a pile of cash, not on racing merit. So back it up. Name your list of prospects that ought to have a Cup seat but don't have it because they can't ring the cash register.
But isn't Bubba wheeling a RCR car?
All I’m saying is that sponsorship is the number one thing if you want to go racing. If some wealthy individual has a child that wants to drive the 43 car all he has to do is write a check and Bubba is jettisoned. I never claimed that pay drivers are an everyday thing.
No amount of money is going to get you on the field of an NFL game as you have to be the best available athlete to play.
None of this is good, bad or controversial but just how it is.
I never thought that let alone said it. I never said that pay drivers were a regular occurrence but I did say that it is possible. The kid that drove the second Petty car was a pay driver as once he quit the funding went with him
Don’t make more out of this than it warrants.
The kid that drove the second Petty car..that's it?
You're not making your case with these hypotheticals that have no real world basis.
@LewTheShoe provided an actual example in Paul Menard of what Cup "ride buying" looks like. Instead of his Dad "writing a check" to take a Cup seat from someone else overnight, he spent years in regional series and more years in Xfinity building the requisite skills needed to race at the Cup level. Do you have another case study that has actually happened?
I am really looking forward to hearing about the record number of quality passes tomorrow.
that's it? the second kid that drove the Petty car..smh
All I said was it is possible to buy a ride in Nadcar but it is not possible to buy a position on an NFL team. If I had said that many drivers had bought rides I would be wrong but I never said that.
It’s one more than has ever happened in the sports I follow.
is that supposed to make sense? Do you not know those are two completely different sports?
Bubba don't go that easy ... not gonna happen
That is what I have been saying. If someone has the money they can buy a ride in Nascar. It isn’t a regular occurrence but it is something that has happened. Football is different as it doesn’t matter how much money you have the only thing that will get you on the field is talent.
This is not controversial so IDK why hackles are raised?
I think Bubba will remain with the ship until it sinks. However Bubba is an employee and serves at the pleasure of his owner. If the owner wants another driver he can make the switch.
Why would it not be hypothetically possible to buy a roster spot on the Jacksonville Jaguars or the Phoenix Suns? I'm sure there is an acceptable price that some owners wouldn't turn down.
You're making an unsubstantiated claim that is being challenged. That's it. I haven't seen anyone getting emotional.
I think it's about as close as you can get without being officially under the RCR banner - chassis, engineering support, ECR engines - which makes it a mystery as to why they're so much worse off than before. It's not like Roush chassis were blowing people out of the water, although Roush-Yates engines are probably better. But it seems like much more setup and handling than power. Dillon is trending up so far this year, so somewhere on the RPM side they're not doing enough with what they're given.
Yes, the owner can switch and stir up some controversy that sponsors don't want to be involved with.
Lucas Oil is killing STP
I don’t see anyone’s mind getting changed and since we have crossed over into the possibility of professional teams employing pay players I will respectfully agree to disagree.
Nascar has to test and approve any driver. Nobody has or can just write a check and drive a car. And no Sponsorship isn't the number one thing. Did you miss reading Lew The Shoe's list?
I’m very pleased with my thread.
It seems equally theoretical to me, since no convincing example has been provided. If your point was simply that auto racers depend on individual sponsorship and for sports athletes that's more of a perk than a necessity, you could have said that and not faced the same resistance. "If some wealthy individual has a child that wants to drive the 43 car all he has to do is write a check and Bubba is jettisoned" doesn't hold up and is your imagination running wild.
Separate names with a comma.