What a shame

4

4xchampncountin

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CHICAGO (Aug. 27) - A fired worker hunted down and shot to death six employees of an auto parts supply warehouse on Wednesday, then refused to surrender and was killed by police, authorities said.

"From the scene, it appears he went throughout the supply warehouse shooting them," acting Chicago Police Superintendent Philip Cline said. "They all suffered fatal gunshot wounds."

The gunman, identified by authorities as 36-year-old Salvador Tapia, had been fired six months ago for poor performance at Windy City Core Supply Inc., and recently made threatening telephone calls to one of the owners.

"According to management, he was fired six months ago for being a poor employee -- late, not showing up at work, causing trouble at work," Cline said. The phone calls were not reported to police.

When officers arrived Wednesday morning in answer to a call of shots fired, an employee with his hands tied behind his back, who had escaped, told them Tapia was inside and had shot several employees. Another worker who was caught in rush hour traffic also escaped the carnage.

Tapia may have arrived before some employees, then fired at arriving officers in two separate confrontations outside.

A team of heavily armed officers then stormed the warehouse -- which Cline described as a thicket of barrels, containers and auto engines -- and found Tapia hiding. He refused to put down his weapon, a Walther PP .380 pistol, and was killed by an officer, Cline said.

Police searched the warehouse for hours afterward, looking for any additional victims amid the maze of auto parts.

Tapia had been arrested a dozen times in the past 14 years on various charges, including illegal possession of a weapon, domestic battery and assault. He was convicted in 1989 of illegal possession of a gun and received a year's probation.

"The problem here is easy access to a firearm," Cline said. "I mean here's someone who never should have had a gun, that had a gun, and it's tragic results from it."

Chicago, which has one of the nation's highest murder rates, has been in the forefront of U.S. cities suing gun manufacturers, distributors and retailers. Mayor Richard Daley frequently rails against the influx of weapons into the city that bans their sale inside its borders.

Last week in Ohio, an automotive supply plant worker killed one co-worker and wounded two others before killing himself.

Other workplace shootings in recent years include the July 1999 slayings of nine people at two Atlanta brokerage offices by a stock trader, who earlier killed his wife and two children. In December, a copier repairman shot to death seven people at a Xerox Corp. facility in Honolulu.

In February 2001, a former worker at a suburban Chicago Navistar factory who was about to start a prison term returned to the plant and opened fire, killing four and then himself.

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I just don't understand how someone could follow through on something like this :unsure:
 
I agree. Thats very sad. How can anyone kill another human... :unsure:
 
What was he doing with a gun in the first place. Just like Australia has done, might be an idea to take guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them (everyone if you're not in a gun club). We had a gun buy back program, which seemed to work really well. These things aren't candy, it shouldn't be so easy to get them and it's making a joke of the police when people like this get ahold of them time and time again.

Six people...six people too many! How many more are to be killed before something drastic is done?

For us it only took one guy...but lost 25 people. Nothing since then because the buy back program was run after that.
 
How did that work exactly, buying the guns back from people?

It's horrible what happened... :(

:dual9mm:
 
Well basically everyone had no choice to the matter, if you had a gun and it wasn't registered and you really don't need it (farmer, gun club etc) then you HAD to sell whatever gun/s you had. Each gun had it's own set price, no idea what they were. All guns the Government collected would be destroyed on the spot in front of the owner. And now if you’re found with an unregistered gun there are hefty penalties, not sure what they are either though.

It cost the Government heaps of money but like I said, we haven't had anything happen since then.

It should only take one nutter for drastic action, how many are you guys up to now...or lost count ages ago? It's up to the Government to have the balls and do something because everyone should have the right to feel safe at work, walking down the street and even in your very own home.
 
Thats good what they did. Next theyll be taking knives.
 
Originally posted by Luv4Dale8@Sep 1 2003, 04:57 PM
Thats good what they did. Next theyll be taking knives.
Was that meant to be sarcasm?
At least we don’t have people going around shooting each other for stupid reasons on a day to day basis. You rather just except that these things just happen and there is nothing no one can do?
No where to go but down hill with that way of thinking.It must be a sad place to live if it’s as normal for a person to own a gun as it is to own a kitchen knife. Sad indeed. :(
 
Originally posted by Tiger@Sep 1 2003, 05:23 AM
Well basically everyone had no choice to the matter, if you had a gun and it wasn't registered and you really don't need it (farmer, gun club etc) then you HAD to sell whatever gun/s you had. Each gun had it's own set price, no idea what they were. All guns the Government collected would be destroyed on the spot in front of the owner. And now if you’re found with an unregistered gun there are hefty penalties, not sure what they are either though.

It cost the Government heaps of money but like I said, we haven't had anything happen since then.

It should only take one nutter for drastic action, how many are you guys up to now...or lost count ages ago? It's up to the Government to have the balls and do something because everyone should have the right to feel safe at work, walking down the street and even in your very own home.
NO offense intended on this matter but...

We have something called the 2nd ammendment of the Constitution which says "A well regulated malitia being nessesary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

I am a gun owner and I feel very strongly that noone has the right to tell me that I can not have a gun to defend my family and property. I also shoot guns for sport on occasion and used to be an avid hunter when my schedule was not so busy. No amount of government intervention is going to completely eliminate guns from our society. As long as there is a chance that someone can enter my home with a gun, I will be armed to prevent such an occurance.
 
I agree with you but then tell that to the family members and friends of those 6 people who worked with that nutter.

A true story...

My family car got broken into (while in our front driveway) and the keys to our house were stolen. We then got many late night calls from this person telling us that he was going to come into our house and do such and such (yes we changed the locks but he’s still a nutter)...my father owned a gun and I'm sure he wouldn't wait a second long to defend his family if this person would have broken into our house. We called the cops and they came around to speak to us once. My father off handedly said if this guy does break in 'I'll shoot him in the legs" to which the police officer replied..."Don't do that, he'll sue you, just shoot him dead".

So yes I couldn't agree with you more, which is why I think family members should join gun clubs to learn how to use them properly and to have the right to own them for the right purpose.

But these 6 people still got killed, and it could have been stopped.

You have to pass a few tests before you get a driver’s license, why? So you don't endanger those around you, yet any idiot can buy a gun and use it at will...

Or do they just give out driver’s licenses to everyone until they drive over 6 people and kill them?

It’s your right to have a test for a drivers license not a right to drive.
 
Yeah I agree tiger, there should be some sort of certification for gun owners. I don't believe the US will take most all the guns like the land down under and England. I for one, have two shotguns, I shoot clay targets about every weekend and when hunting seasons are in I go all the time. It would be truly a discrase if guns are recalled because a few. I believe people kill people but I am not blind to the fact that guns are a big motivator for the ease of it. Bigger actions should be taken for a person to gets their hands on a gun.
 
Gun buy backs are only for honest law biding people. Tiger I belive if you looked hard enought you will find plenty of guns in your country. I find it hard to belive people don't get shot down under. :D
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Sep 2 2003, 01:21 AM
Gun buy backs are only for honest law biding people. Tiger I belive if you looked hard enought you will find plenty of guns in your country. I find it hard to belive people don't get shot down under. :D
Why is that so hard to believe? We don't seem to have your 'gang' problems, like you do in major city areas. I happily walk around my city at night. Our army doesn't have a bad reputation like America and England to be trigger-happy. Sure we have gun owners, those who the Government allows to own guns, so yes of course I wouldn't have to look far. At least in our country it's still a matter of 'who has a gun' unlike yours, which is clearly out of control, is a matter of 'who doesn't have a gun'...much easier to count huh? :p

I guess you also believe I ride to school and work in a pouch of a kangaroo?

One day I hope Americans learn that movies aren't real ;) ...

...Australians are civilized people and that gun's aren't 'cool'!...

...or if you're going to live in that la la land...you should also believe in Wizards and Witches from Harry Potter movies! :p hahaaa
 
Look Tiger, you are treading on thin ice here, you may want to stop before you really get blasted, I for one own 5 shotguns and 1 rifle and don't think for a minute I would hesitate to shoot somebody attempting to do harm to my family. And by the way, I was trained since I was a kid on how to handle, carry, load, and shoot guns. I am definately not a killer, so you shouldn't think just because someone owns a gun that is the case. I think you are a little naieve (spelling) if you think that the only people in your country that have guns are the ones that the government says can.
Now about our armed forces, don't be so quick to talk about them, because as soon as someone invades Australia who will your gunless government will call??? Maybe expecting these trigger happy AMERICANS to come to their aide. Americans are very proud of our armed forces so don't even go there!!!! :salute:
I'll have to say this in closing, You say this must be a sad place to live where owning a gun is as easy as owning a kitchen knife, well Tiger this is my take on Australia, You better gaurd your kitchen knives because your government may take them next and so on and so on....... So don't knock the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA until you lived here and have been a part of what goes on here, and definately, definately don't knock the armed forces of the USA these days because that will get you in hot water. :salute: :salute:
 
Criminals, by definition, don't really care what the law says. Gun laws only make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get guns. It is utterly foolish to think that the government could possibly keep someone from getting a gun if they wan't one bad enough.
 
Some Intresting facts

Firearm Related Murders

USA:9,390
Germany:213
Canada:106
Great Britain:30
Japan:15
New Zealand:2

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1996

Many people say we have so many more murders then other countrys because of poverty, but canada has twice as much unemployment rate. Some people say its because we have more minortys then other countrys but canada has the same percent of minoritys as us. Also of course most know we have alot more population and think thats the reason, but the percentages are way higher.

Population and murder comparison

Country or state / population (in millions) / amount of murders

Germany / 82.1 / 381
France / 58.7 / 255
Canada / 30.6 / 165
Maine / 1.25 / 113
United Kingdom / 58.8/ 68
Japan/ 125.6/ 39
1999




Gunshot wounds are the second leading cause of death for all people aged 10-34. National Center for Health Statistics, 1993

In 1998, firearms were used in 2 out of 3 murders committed in the U.S. Handguns were used in 52% of all murders. FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1998

In 1998, 8 out of 10 of those murdered with firearms were murdered with handguns. FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1998
 
Triger are you trying to tell me you live in a country where the country controls you. And that you have no crimi.mals. And those crimimnals have no guns Must be nice to live in Heaven and walk on streets of gold. No I don't think you work in a Kangaroo pouch. But if you think you live in a country without illigal guns then you are the one in la la land. And another thing witches are real. they have been around form the dawn of man. nuff said.
 
As far as Australia goes they had 312 murders in 1996 total, not just gun related.
 
Originally posted by Tiger+Sep 3 2003, 09:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tiger @ Sep 3 2003, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Gollum@Sep 2 2003, 01:21 AM
Gun buy backs are only for honest law biding people. Tiger I belive if you looked hard enought you will find plenty of guns in your country. I find it hard to belive people don't get shot down under. :D
Why is that so hard to believe? We don't seem to have your 'gang' problems, like you do in major city areas. I happily walk around my city at night. Our army doesn't have a bad reputation like America and England to be trigger-happy. Sure we have gun owners, those who the Government allows to own guns, so yes of course I wouldn't have to look far. At least in our country it's still a matter of 'who has a gun' unlike yours, which is clearly out of control, is a matter of 'who doesn't have a gun'...much easier to count huh? :p

I guess you also believe I ride to school and work in a pouch of a kangaroo?

One day I hope Americans learn that movies aren't real ;) ...

...Australians are civilized people and that gun's aren't 'cool'!...

...or if you're going to live in that la la land...you should also believe in Wizards and Witches from Harry Potter movies! :p hahaaa [/b][/quote]
Ya know, I dont believe our military is trigger happy, we havent had any bad cases of numerous civilian deaths in combat. Our military here in the United States is the most instituted and disciplined and rigorously trained military in the world, second to none. Tiger, you're hearing from someone who's a member of a proud american military family, you need to get your facts straight.

Tiger, Are you trying to tell me that Australia doesnt have firearms and that Australia is a la-la perfect utopian society? Then in that case I think you just contradicted your own argument there. You said Australia was a civilized society, then why has your government mistreated aborigines by treating them as second-class citizens and destroying their villages for the past 150 or so years? :lol:
 
I for one own 5 shotguns and 1 rifle and don't think for a minute I would hesitate to shoot somebody attempting to do harm to my family.
If you read my posts correctly, I said pretty much the same thing in my true story about my father. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there?
And by the way, I was trained since I was a kid on how to handle, carry, load, and shoot guns. I am definately not a killer, so you shouldn't think just because someone owns a gun that is the case.
And never did I say that? Like I said my father owned a gun, so of course I don't think that!Once again if you read my posts correctly I said every family should be trained in how to use firearm correctly and for the correct purpose, so I'm guessing you're agreeing with me?? :p
I think you are a little naieve (spelling) if you think that the only people in your country that have guns are the ones that the government says can.
That's the way the Government would like it I guess, but no I don't believe that's how it really is and I never said that I was simply explaining how it worked. Once again like I said in my other posts it only took ONE nutter to kill 25 people in about 1 hour including children, mothers, everyone he saw he killed...and that was the last time it happened...it should only take ONE nutter! Losing 25 Australians made our Government make a drastic move, and I don't pretend that it wasn't!
Now about our armed forces, don't be so quick to talk about them, because as soon as someone invades Australia who will your gunless government will call??? Maybe expecting these trigger happy AMERICANS to come to their aide. Americans are very proud of our armed forces so don't even go there!!!!
You're 100% correct and through this WHOLE Iraq thing (which doesn't have anything to do with us) I have spent my whole darn time defending the actions of my Government to send Australians over WITH Americans to do what had to be done because I know in the future we will for sure need your help back, as most Australians don't look to the future and see that we could get in big trouble without you guys and I'm EXTREAMLY greatful that we can HELP YOU so as that we have peace of mind that you guys will back us up in the future. I have been abused in my very own county for sticking up for you guys the the actions you guys make, so please don't tell me I don't understand!
You say this must be a sad place to live where owning a gun is as easy as owning a kitchen knife, well Tiger this is my take on Australia
Nope I never, ever said that...
It must be a sad place to live if it’s as normal for a person to own a gun as it is to own a kitchen knife.
That's what I said...much different. knife in Kitchen = normal, every person having a gun = not so normal! :p
Triger are you trying to tell me you live in a country where the country controls you.
Nope. But much like you, we make the choice of who runs our country and when they make a choice for our best interests we should trust them, shouldn't we? like I said it only took one nutter, but 25, 25!!! people! To me twenty five Australian people is a HUGE amount, and maybe that's the scary part...you don't think one nutter killing 25 people in one day is such a big deal? Sensitized to the whole thing maybe?? :(
And that you have no crimi.mals. And those crimimnals have no guns Must be nice to live in Heaven and walk on streets of gold.
Did you mean criminals? Of course we have heaps of them. And it sucks because our jails down here are like bloody hotels with swimming pools and all that stuff...makes me sick but that's another matter all together ain't it :p And yes I'm sure criminals have guns but unlikes teenages who aren't popular in school and just decide one day to take a gun and kill their fellow students, criminals are more selective and it's more for their protection? Nutters just aim and shoot ramdomly...this I believe is the problem?
But if you think you live in a country without illigal guns then you are the one in la la land.
Never, ever did I say there were NO illigal guns in this country...that is the AIM of the Government. I was asked to explain what I meant by gun buy back program, so I explained...want to shoot the messenger? :p pefft.
Ya know, I dont believe our military is trigger happy, we havent had any bad cases of numerous civilian deaths in combat. Our military here in the United States is the most instituted and disciplined and rigorously trained military in the world, second to none. Tiger, you're hearing from someone who's a member of a proud american military family, you need to get your facts straight.
I didn't state any fact I made it pretty clear that I was going by reputation...and I said that. I here what I here, might not be fact but I wouldn't know, would I? You can't believe everything you hear in the media either, people still quote things out of papers like they are fact, when really it could be a load of bull. I wasn't putting you army down in any way just stating the way pretty much most Australians feel about the American army. My boyfriend is in the Australian army and they pretty much feel the same way...must be for some reason, don't ya think? :) But I have no idea of facts, maybe you can give me some?
Tiger, Are you trying to tell me that Australia doesnt have firearms and that Australia is a la-la perfect utopian society?
yes and I really do ride to work on rainbows and believe it or not there are pots of gold at the end...lol. There are many things I would love to see get better in this country but that sometimes means taking steps, drastic steps sometimes depending on what it might be. 25 Australians killed by a nutter Australian, things like that shouldn't happen. Laws need to move with the times. I was on a train once and there were three boys and I over heard them say they were only 13 years old...then they pulled out a plastic bag and started chroming then and there on the train for all to see. I was beside myself and very upset. As soon as I got to the main station I went to the police who have a station there and reported what I had seen and just as I did they saw them all go into the male toilets. You know what the police did...NOTHING...you know why? Because it's not illigal to chrom. It's probably wrose then many other illigal drugs you'll find in clubs and pubs but it's not illigal! At the moment our Government are in the process of moving with the times to stop this and see to that this is illigal...or should we let children do this? Kill themselves slowly because law doesn't know what chroming is?
You said Australia was a civilized society, then why has your government mistreated aborigines by treating them as second-class citizens and destroying their villages for the past 150 or so years?
We never used them as slaves and sold them like sheep and catle like you might have? Not that I know of. If you want to go down this road, you're very welcome because I'm well aware of what our Government has/hasn't down in this area. You have NO idea what process our Government is in to fix things. Oh and how do you give help to a group that doesn't want help? We offer education, health, training for jobs, jobs, homes, cars, etc... we can only offer...but if they want to live the way they have before we came, we can do nothing but respect their wishes. Unfortunately this means aborigines adv life expectancy is still low and the health of the children still bad. Unlike some countries we don't force people to become westernised?

I must say I apologise if this seems like I was 'out to get' anything you hold close to you like the army, guns, and your freedom and rights. I hope you believe that I'm a big fan of the American ways in some areas but then we are our own country and this gun buy back program worked for us and I did nothing but hope that this type of thing could bring the same result and hope to your country or to at least find something that works for your country to fix this CLEAR problem. Or have you lost hope in this problem so much so that you don't realise it's a problem?

I'm sorry if I upset anyone that wasn't my aim and it wasn't my aim to start a fight but I hope it's making people think about it at least?

I always enjoy a good debate (NOT fight) but if you can't handle it, just tell me that I'm over the line and I'll stop?... :)
 
Tiger, I respect your opinions on everything that you have said. There have been numerous "attempts" by the government to do exactly as you have stated regarding the gun buy back, without much success. In the United States, you must submit to a background check prior to ANY gun purchase. Therefore your name is tied to the registration number on that particular firearm. The only drawback to that is that there are way too many illegal guns on the street and they are being sold by individuals and not being registered in the "system". In my opinion, this was a little too late in being able to have any amount of success. The drug dealers and gang members have their "stash" of illegal weapons to protect their illegal "business" ventures. As it has been stated previously, the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution gives it's citizens the right to bear arms.

Until you have either lived in the United States or lived in Australia, you cannot honestly comprehend the other country's situation regarding guns and gun control.

:cheers:
 
Tiger I cant really speak for your actions. But when you say that our military is "trigger-happy" then you're picking a fight, because we're very proud of our military here in the states and in many opinions it's the greatest and most elite fighting force in history, you probably think the same about your military in Australia. Personally, I thinked you jumped the gun on that and just posted some slander and libel which just insults the very foundations my country was founded upon

All I'm saying is, if you're going to throw out completely false accusations that insult the very integrities and liberties my country was founded on and slander it's proud tradition then there will be some sort of repricussion via the members or me or someone else. No, I'm not trying to tell you what to do and I'm not picking a fight but I say you cant really comprehend what goes on in either country unless you've been there and done that. You cant really say anything unless you've actually seen what goes on here in the states and I cant say anything unless I've actually seen what goes on in Australia.

There it is, my thing is said and done
 
But when you say that our military is "trigger-happy" then you're picking a fight,
I apologise then. I was just stating that in the Australian media, the public and even the Australian army, the American army is known to have a reputation to be trigger-happy. Maybe I used the wrong words but that kinda sums up the reputation. I personally have a strong respect for the American army, but this is a free country, like yours, and our public and media are free to think what they like of your Army...or don't we get that freedom?
and in many opinions it's the greatest and most elite fighting force in history, you probably think the same about your military in Australia.
Nope I certainly don't think the same of the Australian military. America are by extream far, far ahead of any in the world in my opinion.
Personally, I thinked you jumped the gun on that and just posted some slander and libel which just insults the very foundations my country was founded upon
I apologise if you took it that way. Why do you care so much about what us Australians might think of your army any way? Since when do you care of the opinions of others ever also? And it's just that, our opinion...you might not like it but it's our freedom. Isn't freedom one of the things your country was founded upon also? It might surprise you but I as an Australian have the right to freedom also and the freedom to form my own opinion based on anything I wish. You can dislike it as much as you want, but it's my right.
All I'm saying is, if you're going to throw out completely false accusations that insult the very integrities and liberties my country was founded on and slander it's proud tradition then there will be some sort of repricussion via the members or me or someone else.
Listen, I apologised if you took things out of context wayyy too much, if me offering hope to your country (in ways of gun laws), which my original post was all about before you started jumping up and down about two words in that post you might like to take the whole thing into mind first! Why don't we just leave this whole army thing and get back to what this thread was all about? 6 Americans lost their life because someone who shouldn't of had a gun, did! So darn quick to defend your whole army, who I'm sure can take care of themselves, why don't you stand up for those 6 people first, Happy?
No, I'm not trying to tell you what to do and I'm not picking a fight but I say you cant really comprehend what goes on in either country unless you've been there and done that. You cant really say anything unless you've actually seen what goes on here in the states and I cant say anything unless I've actually seen what goes on in Australia.
I don't have to know millions of facts, and to have lived in the USA to form my very own opinion of the place and it's army. Who do you think you are telling me what I should do in my life before I form an opinion. Or should most of Australians move over there for how long happy before we can form an opinion?? You value freedom so much in your country, but when it comes to giving it? I'm sure you have many opinions on Australia and the people who live here and our army...have you lived here? Doesn't stop you from thinking? Surprise, Surprise but being about to think for yourself and form your own opinions is a FREEDOM we give here in Australia!

Or don't I, as an Australian, have that right on an American forum board? Do only Americans have that right?
 
If you don't mind, I think this thread has run it's course. If someone can give me a real good reason not to lock it, please do so. You have 12 hours from my post time to do so. After that, I will lock the thread. In my opinion, it will only result in discord.
 
Forget about the argueing and the rediculous acusation of our troops being trigger happy. But seriously why does our country have so much murders and gun related murders then all these other countrys. If you combine all of them it doesn't equall half.
 
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