What the HECK ? Dirty air ?

[Whizzer]

Target and Gnassi to hire Stewart ????

Can you imagine if this is is true ??? FIVE MILLION to drive a race car ??? Is Tony Stewart, or anyone else for that matter really worth FIVE MILLION plus bonuses ???

Fans P & M every opportunity about the sport, the sponsors, who did what to whom, and the price goes up, up and further up. Who pays ?? WE DO !!!

What makes Tony Stewart worth five million dollars per annum ??? His personality. His driving ability ??? His charm and wit ?? Same questions hold for Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt, Jr., or pick any driver and ask the same question. It has gottenso hired backpackers comand one million dollars a year in salary. NASCAR stars are falling into the same category as the high priced talent in the stick and ball sports, who upon realizing they are so valuable, spend less time with the fans and eventually will charge for autographs.

No, don't laugh. This is history. Repeating itself. The more things change the more they stay the same.

The rules have changed and it STINKS !!!!!!!!
GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLY !!!!!!!!!! Ryan Newman wins a race because he keeps the second place driver in "dirty air" ????
What kind of racing is that ?? Unless I missed something along the way, I always thought racing was about the best driver and the fastest car. When did "dirty air" ever play such a defining role !!!! ( )

Drafting at Daytona and the armpit, Talledega, were a necessary commodity but never at tracks like Pocono. What is this sport coming too?? And soon will short tracks be discarded in favor of intermediate tracks supporting larger numbers of fans?? More lemons to suck on if it comes to that scenario.

A recent report, excuse me, rumor, says NASCAR is considering a sale to FOX.
Whewweeeeeeeeee !!! Wouldn't that be something !!
FOX could control cautions for fuel factors, thus determining the outcome of a race, (some people suspect NASCAR is already doing this) they could do the commercial thing as is done at stick and ball sports, and become what major colleges havve become, whores that sold out to the big money to sustain a program for "the students".
To this I say MALE BOVINE DROPPINGS!!!!!!!!!!

The game is played every weekend and the sport has been so disguised, calibrated, manipulated, think of a negative term and it will most likely cover the changes.
Drivers like Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Jeff and Robbie Gordon, Dave Blaney, proved each week BEFORE they entered NASCAR Winston Cup they were good enough to be considered the best of the best. All through talent and ability to adapt to different and ever changing scenarios with mechanics and driving styles. Today, dirty air, one-quarter pound of tire pressure means the difference between winning and a top twenty, if the team is lucky.

The point is, this is not the way racing was intended to be. Yes, I'll still watch since the adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks applies here. Having been involved directly and indirectly since 1958, it is a hard habit to break. Besides, I get to take a nap Sunday afternoons. The local short track has as much entertainment in the mini-car race as all the real ingredients previously prescribed as defining "a race", apply. And they don't concern themselves with "dirty air", something my Mother (God rest her sweet soul) mentioned when a person of disrepute walked into the room.

Commments and opinions hesitantly requested!!!!!!

 

[Gollum]

I agree with a lot that you said Whizzer. How much longer will it take Na$car to become as predictable as WWE. And Darby and Helton are a genaric Vince Macmman.

 

[bowtie]

You summed it up pretty well Whizzer. I don't think Tony Stewart or anybody else for that matter is worth that kind of money, and as you said it will all come down to costing the Fans. Why do you think it cost so much to go to a Chicago Bulls game? Tickets went up to pay for Michael Jordon and so on and so on. The dirty air deal, well they are a victom of their own success, The cars had to be slick to win and drivers complained when their car just wasn't as aero but now they are all so aero sensitive that they can only win if they are out front and cannot race for the win from second on back and that is really a sad situation.

 

[Whizzer]

Originally posted by bowtie@Jul 28 2003, 01:39 PM
You summed it up pretty well Whizzer. I don't think Tony Stewart or anybody else for that matter is worth that kind of money, and as you said it will all come down to costing the Fans. Why do you think it cost so much to go to a Chicago Bulls game? Tickets went up to pay for Michael Jordon and so on and so on. The dirty air deal, well they are a victom of their own success, The cars had to be slick to win and drivers complained when their car just wasn't as aero but now they are all so aero sensitive that they can only win if they are out front and cannot race for the win from second on back and that is really a sad situation.

Possibly you heard Jeff Gordon try to explain how difficult it is to set up a car. One setup goes to being able to run in the pack and the other to run out front but to combine the two in the same package is nearly impossible.

The decision the teams must make is, where do we want to finish?? Where do we want the best performance. The ideal solution is to set the car up to run in the pack , try for track position through passing, attrition and pit strategy, once near the front change the car to run out front. Ideal. Realistic ?? Maybe in the Land of OZ. I think Busch had the best car for speed yesterday, but "dirty air" took his win. Newman was deserving however.

BAH HUMBUG !!!!!!!! Give'em all coal !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[boB]

Naw Whizz,
I don't call it racing. It has become simply a show for the fans, staged by a bunch of rich kids who figure that the solution to every problem is found by throwing around obscene amounts of money.

Racing? Isn't that what we saw when that Evans kid used to start in the rear of the field, pass cars where ever he found them, and win. All in about 35 laps on a 1/4, a 1/3 or a 1/2 mile oval?
Bugs Stevens, Fred DeSarro, Ed Flemke, Ernie Gahan, Ray Hendrick and so many others who raced because they were racers. Not someone's pretty faced, multi-million dollar whore.

Or how about Jim Shampine in his radical, homemade supermodifieds? He was so good that Oswego outlawed his last design. They figured that the sport couldn't afford to keep up with his talent.

Remember when that A.J. Foyt guy was racing anything with wheels, anywhere in the world, and winning more often than not?

Same thing with that little Italian kid named Mario. Even beat the world's very best in their own playground. Won Indy, Daytona and the World Driving title.

Only other American driver to win that World title was Phil Hill if memory serves me. We seldom even hear his name mentioned today.
One of my favorite, all-time racing photos is the one of Phil in his '61 Impala 409 at Silverstone, front tires pointing in all kinds of wrong directions, but still blowing the competition into the weeds.
(Have a pretty good shot of some young fool jumping into the air, waving a flag to start a race from the track, too. Wonder who the last was to do that?)

Whizzer, I really feel sorry for the youngsters who missed the racing that you and I, along with the others of our generation, were fortunate enough to have been a part of.
Homemade cars, wooden bleachers, lousey sound systems and worse track lighting, bad food and warm drinks and drivers who were still human beings, instead of some kind of idols to be worshipped.

Race cars were built from real cars, in some sort of garage, shed, lean-to. If you were lucky. Lots of shade tree, blue-sky and back porch steps in those days. No such thing as a "race shop."

Remember when an autograph was as easy to get as visiting the pits after the race?

A souvenir was either your ticket stub or this week's program?

Before show cars, souvenir trailers, die-cast toys and all sorts of other expensive junk?

Remember when racing was about racing?

Before big money turned the sport into big business.

 

[Gollum]

Bob I am old enought but I wasn't into racing then. I enjoy watching Nascar on Sundays. But what I enjoy more is making a trip up to the local dirt tracks around here and watching some real racing. Tracks where the motors are loud the dust is everywhere and it don't cost 3 or 4 bucks to buy a coke. Now that is fun.

 

[Whizzer]

boB, we could hash over the "good ole days" for hours, and the same thing pops up. The races at Victory Speedway in Middletown, NY and guys like Tasnady, Pickle, Schneider, Harwi, Carter. Heck, the list is endless. Nowadays, big money takes the fun out of the sport, just as it has in every sport there is. No one participates for the halibut anymore. Even the local little league has the kids buying cleat shoes, full uniforms and is completed by having Dad sitting in the stands acting like a first class horse's buttocks yelling and screaming at the kids. Parent's have gotten so bad there are laws regarding parental behavior at kids athletic events. The fun is supposed to be in the game or in the race and the win should be secondary. Today it is all too serious. Note the posts on this or any website when a driver is taken to task for screwing up. His fans jump up and down like they want to save the world, whether that driver is right or wrong.

Funny you should mention Mario. I raced in the same class as he did at the old Nazareth Speedway in Nazareth, PA.. I think the year was 1957 or '58. Mario drove a Hudson Hornet with Twin H power and was so fast, he blew by the competition. I could say I raced against Mario, but the truth of the matter is, it would be more honest to say I was on the track at the same time. That is the extent of my racecar driving career and solitary claim to fame.

It was just about that time I decided I didn't have the two male oval shaped sex glands contained within the scrotum to be a race car driver after having gone out on the track to practice when I wasn't supposed to, and a chap named Otto Harwi driving the modified #1, flew by me so fast the only person who knew I was scared was the one who washed my underwear. It was roughly a month or two later I decided there had to be a way to be in racing and not spend my own money. And to remain calm.
The foolish things we do in our youth.
Then we get married. But for me that was a good thing.
Growing up is the hard part. But I'm gaining on it. Maybe, just maybe, when I reach 75, I'll be a mentally full grown adult. But I ain't pushin' it 'cause I'm havin' to much fun the way things are right now. Growin' up might change them.

 

[17_Fan]

Originally posted by bowtie@Jul 28 2003, 07:39 AM
You summed it up pretty well Whizzer. I don't think Tony Stewart or anybody else for that matter is worth that kind of money, and as you said it will all come down to costing the Fans. Why do you think it cost so much to go to a Chicago Bulls game? Tickets went up to pay for Michael Jordon and so on and so on. The dirty air deal, well they are a victom of their own success, The cars had to be slick to win and drivers complained when their car just wasn't as aero but now they are all so aero sensitive that they can only win if they are out front and cannot race for the win from second on back and that is really a sad situation.

MJ was one of the lowest paid Bulls during their 2nd run of three straight championships. He made all his $$$ on pushing products like Oscar Meyer, Nike, Rayovac & Hanes on the boob tube.

 

[97forever]

Now THIS is a cynical post,Whiz.Stewart,Gordon,Speed Racer or Cole Trickle are like my old Falcon out back:worth EXCACTLY as much as someone will give.This nonsense will continue until the fans put a stop to it.Which they/we won't.

Keep supporting it=put up with whatever BS the powers that be want to shove down your throat.All green,remember?THATS capitalism at work!

This is an interesting post here....but way to obvious to even argue about:I'ts our fault if we choose to put up with it! Either overpaid drivers or mediocre racing.

 

[boB]

Whiz,

I guess if we admit it, racing is much more today than what we knew in that other lifetime.

It's a lot safer for both the fans and competitors; the drivers, owners, crew members and officials can all make a decent living instead of spending the groceries and half the rent in order to be there every weekend.

More drivers retire from the sport than die trying and the fans have the disposable income to spend on all those junk die-casts and other souvenirs.

Television now features all kinds of racing every day of the week; every type of racing imaginable including the Tour de France on bicycles.

Fans now number in the millions instead of merely the thousands and they support not only their favorite driver, but also buy whatever snakeoil his sponsor is selling this week.

And all is well and good in the land of auto racing. Well, almost all anyhow. There is still room for some improvement.

They never told me that I had to grow up; only get older.
I figure if I take off about 150 lbs, maybe get a heart transplant, a couple of new lungs, get some discs in the spine fused and the knees replaced, along with some stronger glasses and a couple of new inner ear assemblies, I might be able to do a few of those really foolish things again.

'Course the wife has some other ideas on that score, but I never have really paid much attention to her. 'Specially when things like racecars were involved.
Guess maybe it's a good thing she's kept me around all this time?
At least I'm growing old.

 

[Whizzer]

Not sure about the mediocre racing part. It would depend on what a person is interested in. The big names being paid the big bucks running in circles for a predetermined length of distance, the outcome of which might be the result of "dirty air".
It isn't about racing anymore. The technicalities and subsequent formulations are so slight, the difference between being superior and junk can be as little as one-quarter pound of air or one-eighth inch projection of the front fender. A race with lesser known participants on a dirt slinging beer covered in mud and front row spectators wearing goggles and where man-handling a race car like those mentioned had to do to get where they are today, is what racing is all about. Of course for those who don't like dirt in thier beer, there are many paved tracks for the more genteel.

Agree or disagree, NASCAR racing is not what it was ten years ago, it was changing rapidly then, and it is not getting any better as things progress.

Cynical ?? You betcherazz !!! Stand on the rooftops and scream cynical at the sky, because it must be a full moon. This is different than the Bill Lester discussion. This is cynical because the fans gripe but do nothing !!!!!!
I agree with capitalism in it's greatest strength since I am all for business as long as they practice good business.
I do not go to the tracks any more after thirty plus years of travel to no less than three or five races annually in addition to traveling the entire circuit from 1986 to 1992, with the exception of the Talledega and Sonoma race.
Neither do I any longer support a sponsor because thier name is on a race car, something done religiously until 1992 or shortly thereafter.
But I do like to discuss the sport, even in it's present state. And yes, 97Forever, even with you. That is what makes it fun.

 

[gordon24fan]

Originally posted by Whizzer@Jul 28 2003, 04:53 PM
Stand on the rooftops and scream cynical at the sky, because it must be a full moon.

You can't do that anymore, or else they might put that gate back up to stop drivers from celebrating on the roof.

 

[17_Fan]

"A race with lesser known participants on a dirt slinging beer covered in mud and front row spectators wearing goggles and where man-handling a race car like those mentioned had to do to get where they are today, is what racing is all about. Of course for those who don't like dirt in thier beer, there are many paved tracks for the more genteel."

Support your local tracks Whiz, I do! I'm lucky enough to have about 10 (some paved & some on clay) within an 1 1/2 hour drive...so that's a lot more supporting than I can do though.



"Cynical ?? You betcherazz !!! Stand on the rooftops and scream cynical at the sky, because it must be a full moon. This is different than the Bill Lester discussion. This is cynical because the fans gripe but do nothing !!!!!! I agree with capitalism in it's greatest strength since I am all for business as long as they practice good business."

It's also 'supply & demand'. For many years, up until NASCAR over saturated us with too many races & tracks over built stands at their tracks, every fan that decided they didn't need the hassle of going to a race, there was a least ten more that were willing to take the tickets off their hands. It's similar to the situation the Green Bay Packers have had over the past 40 years & won't let up any time soon. For every fan the bitches about the changes the Packers make or rasing of the ticket price & seat licensing...there is 35,000 people waiting to buy their tickets.

This is the first time in quite a few years that I remember Michigan Speedway advertising they have tickets for sale, especially during the week of the race. I don't believe they sold out in June. This is the first time ever I can remember seeing the Brickyard advertising tickets on tv. Supply seems to over taken demand now, yet up here they offer no discount tickets. The tracks down south have been doing it for a few years now. (Talladega, Atlanta, Lowe's, Darlington)