Where is Jeff Gordon?

[97forever]

Just rambling really.

It is said pretty often by the drivers and the media that the current WC field is the most competitive in history.That is ,with more cars potentially able to win at any given race.

I used to bristle at this idea.No way was this group of kids as good as the guys I grew up watching!Or so I used to think.

Now,I'm not so sure anymore.

This sport runs in cycles,and sometimes us fans are so caught up in the race to race dramatics,I think we dont realize that.It will have one or two really superstar dominators...and a few steady performers.At least it used to.

My opinion now is that the last 4 seasons have blown that status-quo all to pieces.And here is why I think that is so.
Winston cup racing is a very dominant/superstar driven sport.And when I say superstar I am talking Elliott in '85,Earnhardt in '90 or Gordon in '98 style.Or Cale back in the late seventies for instance.Somebody that comes in,kicks butt and hangs around for a while.

I think we pretty much had that up until '99(with Gordon).

But that hasnt been the case since the arrival of the Future 8.

The future eight are,of course:Stewart,Sadler,Kenseth and Junior,Harvick,Busch,Newman and Johnson.44 wins between these guys in four years.All these guys have multiple wins[execpt Sadler]and all have less than 150 starts.Pretty impressive.

So the questions I have are these:

1.Where is the Jeff Gordon of 1998?MIA without Ray?

2.Which of the Future 8 are going to fill the void left by Jeff's departure?
3.Does NASCAR even need just one superstar?Or can it support two?It certainly has in the past.

So just a little food for thought for the forum!

(And a disclaimer:I know Jeff will still win.I know he is still a contender.But 1998,this aint.)

 

[HardScrabble]

NASCAR should have the fan base to support several "stars". Might have to define the term a little more closely, but regardless it should be able to support at least four and maybe the whole eight you mention.

The single superstar phenom was probably born with Richard. Though it seems back in that day there was enough manufacturer loyalty among fans to offset some of its effects. The deal probably got its stranglehold during the Earnhardt years. And was further entrenched by the Gordon era (an era which truthfully has not necessarily reached its end). Not unrelated is the factor that during the Earnhardt years and agin during the Gordon years Winston Cup racing probably reached its peak growth stages. And for new fans it is so easy to follow a winner, and no one won like Dale and Jeff during their respective times. Add to this Dale's knack for marketing himself and the relentless marketing of Jeff by his sponsors and team owners, if you're new to the game during those times, you likely tend to just jump on the most visible wagon.

Fortunately many of the driver fans of those days have become or are becoming the race fans of today. We will see new batches of driver fans come along, and they too will possible become race fans. Those that do not will often simply drift away once the shine wears off the star they hitched their wagon to.

 

[toddgee24]

1.Where is the Jeff Gordon of 1998?MIA without Ray?

i think that is a big reason why jeff isnt dominating anymore, yes hes still competitive, i think gordon and evernham had the perfect chemistry, and jeff cant get that same chemistry with someone else, and evernham was a genious. something i always thought about, what would happen is jeff joined evernham? i know gordon has a life time contract, but really how much does a contract mean in this sport.

 

[Gordon Fan]

Bring back the softer tires, where the driver had more to do with saving tires to win. Todays tires take that almost entirely out of the equation. Rusty has faultered because of this as well. I do not think we will see a 98 season for a long long time.

 

[4xchampncountin]

I don't see anybody winning 13 races is a single season again. There is too much parity. Besides, I think NASCAR realized it didn't sit well with all of the other fans when Jeff won 1/3 of the races ran. I do see him competing for quite a few more cups year in and year out. He has a very good shot this year being 3rd in points at this point. I would love to see him break King Richard and Dale Sr's record of 7 cups. I don't really know if it will happen or not, but it could. I really think he has a decent shot at it. He is only 30 years old, and now he doesn't have a wife/warden slowing him down and keeping him distracted. Obviously, he does have a lot of competition in Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth and the herd of youngins who seem to have a lot of potential (Kurt Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Ryan Newman etc). Even Junior is now showing some consistency on different tracks. I do know, I wouldn't bet money against him winning a few more cups before he hangs it up.

 

[Betsy]

Comon guys, there are 45 or 46 cars that show up at every race... Of that many, how many are able to ru n to win? What? 6 or 7 at each race? Jeff is in that small group at EVERY track. One might say that to win a driver must first beat Jeff Gordon! Once Jeff is beat that driver has a chance to win. Think of the drivers that just circle the track from week to week and then from month to month.. They are just coasting in their trade. Jeff has been a contender since only a few races in the cup cars. The 98 season? Just a fluke! Not having the bad luck that is so common to racers, is what made that season.
Betsy

 

[barelypure]

...Add to this Dale's knack for marketing himself...

A clarification, Teresa's knack of marketing Dale. Without her Dale would have still been broke. He made several fortunes, but he didn't amass much wealth until he married Teresa and under her influence we saw the emergence of the DEI empire.

 

[Whizzer]

Originally posted by barelypure@Apr 14 2003, 01:40 PM

...Add to this Dale's knack for marketing himself...

A clarification, Teresa's knack of marketing Dale. Without her Dale would have still been broke. He made several fortunes, but he didn't amass much wealth until he married Teresa and under her influence we saw the emergence of the DEI empire.

In reality, the advice of Teresa and Richard Childress led to Dale hiring Don Hawk, who was the mastermind behind marketing Dale Earnhardt and DEI. Hawk subsequently left the organization, starting his own company, but had so firmly established the marketing with Dale Earnhardt, it remained successful.

Prior marketing efforts were virtually non-existent by comparison.

Teresa deserves a lot of credit for her activism and demeanor and business sense after the loss of her husband.

Back to the topic at hand, it is doubtful any other driver will win more than a handful of races in any one year. The ups and downs are predictible since the pressures associated with winning a championship are overwhelming and hard to followup on to win a second in succession.
This is more than driver ability. It is a variety of things all rolled into one. When a driver losses a race because of a mis-call by a crew chief on the shock package because cars are so sensitive in the setup mode, that is reason enough to see why repeats in individual races and championships are a rarity.
One bad day by a crew chief, or in the case of Jimmy Sopencer this past weekend when he had a fast enough car to win, but was screwed, not by his own actions, but by a shortfall in the gas depot area of the track services.
Things are so much different today and the drivers so much more athletically prepared, winnig as a drivr enters his mid-forties will get harder if not impossible.
It is doubtful the series will ever see another driver with the complete records set by Jeff Gordon. The credit goes to many people, but Jeff was the driver in each race and championship won.

 

[barelypure]

Originally posted by Whizzer@Apr 15 2003, 09:09 AM
Teresa deserves a lot of credit for her activism and demeanor and business sense after the loss of her husband.

Agreed. But, I think this recent spate of commercials she has been in is doing more to tarnish her image than it is to build it up. She has been the guiding force for years but now that we get to see her up close on the little screen is tantamount to Toto pulling back the curtain. Especially when she appears with that lovable goof Mikey. IMO, she would be better served to remain quietly in the background and only seen in the winner's circle. (Heaven forbid. Did I really say that about DEI. To the wood shed I go.)

 

[boB]

Whizzer,

You mention prior marketing. Was there any real marketing of either a driver or sponsor before the emergence of the making of the Dale Earnhardt legend?
Or how about the huge campaign NASCAR launched in 1996 and 1997 for their 50th year in '98? Check out the message boards and see how many fans claim they've been watching since those years.

While Winston did do a small amount of marketing (compared to the later years) in an effort to see a return on their investment, the only real marketing effort that I can recall from any of the teams were those of the Petty Engineering crew. I think Lee was one of the first folks in racing to realize there was money to be made from that aspect of the sport. Remember the old matchbook covers with Lee telling us how we needed to use VX 6 in the batteries of our passenger cars because it worked so well in his race car?
Then of course we all remember the "Plymouth by Petty" years, and the big deal when STP came along. There were certainly other driver endorsements over the years, but Lee's seemed to be one of the first that was really pushed in the national media.

I've often wondered if Jr. Johnson realized what a monster he was about to create when he sent RJR to NASCAR instead of just taking their money for his own teams.

Remember when it was "the Wood brother's Ford", or "Cotton Owen's Dodge", the "Homan & Moody Fords", and the "Smokey Yunick Chevrolet", or the "Jr. Johnson's Holly Farms Ford"? Almost forgot the "K&K Insurance Dodge" and the cars of Ray Fox and Banjo Mathews. Point is that the car owners were recognized and sponsors were only mentioned in passing, if at all.
My goodness, how things have changed in recent years.

Since then, the whole thing has become a giant marketing tool, aimed at selling product to the folks in the grandstands, and of course more importantly now, to those who are watching at home on television.

As far as any one driver being able to dominate as some have in the past? Seriously doubt that we will see that again. Too many teams have access to the money and more importantly, the technology today.
Parity don't you know? The show must go on.....

 

[HardScrabble]

The marketing back in the old days was not intense as it is now, but its importance should not be underated.

I seem to recallthat the first T-Shirt marketing was done by the Petty team as well, for Richard. Kyle used to sell 'em when he was youngster off the back of the family hauler.

And K & K Insurance made me think of Bobby Isaac and how he hated having to do the public appearance sessions that were required even back then. Some his closest racing buddies will tell you to this day that his shyness and lack of interest in these funtions hampered the career of one of the best hands to ever grip a stock car wheel.

And one of those friends was Ned Jarrett, Gentleman Ned. How hard he worked to mainstream the image of the NASCAR racer. The suits and ties he wore everywhere he went, unless it was into his race car. The Dale Carnegie courses to improve his public speaking abilities, all in a marketing effort both for himself and the sport. His cleancut lifestyle and soft spoken manner. All this was in stark contrast to more common image of the racers of his day.

There is a saying attributed to Harry Truman - - "The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know."

 

[boB]

HS,

Looking back now, it is amazing just how much foresight some of the early pioneers of the sport displayed.
One can only wonder if those gentlemen ever imagined what their sport would become.

I miss Ned in the booth and Glenn in the pits on racedays. Both seem to be true gentlemen and a credit to the business of bringing racing to the fans thorugh the medium of television.

If I might add just one other thought:
The quote of Teddy Roosevelt's has been a favorite of mine ever since I first read it back around the fifth or sixth grade. I've never been able to remember it word for word, but the meaning has stayed with me all these years.
That and the saying, "Those that can, do."
Something to keep in mind and aim for as we go through this life, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Whizzer]

Funny thing boB and Hardscrabble, but I do remember my first NASCAR race and watching cars being flat-towed across the track into the pit area. A big deal in those days was having a rig similar to the truck used by J.D. McDuffie prior to his demise, a simple set of rails to hold the race car, mounted on the chassis of a truck. Somewhere around 1957 or '58. I was part of a team in the old USAC late model series and we flat-towed a 1956 Ford to western Pennsylvania to a race. Got involved in a minor skirmish and had to do repairs to get it home again. Parts were available at the local Ford dealer.

As for souviners, tee-shirts etc., it really wasn't until the early-eighties the midway atmosphere became inundated with every conceivable thing to represent your favorite driver, and grew from there. No question there were trailers with souvenirs prior to that time but the major advent was the Skoal Bandit team owned by Hal Needham and Burt Reynolds, although it is understood Reynolds never really had any actual money invested, just the use of his name for promotional purposes. This was pretty much the advent of trying to outdo one another in the pit area with the painted haulers, tools, jacks and color coordinated designed pit crew uniforms to name a few.

I often wonder how many of the modern day fans would retain an interest if NASCAR had not worked to establish parity, instead leaving the race teams to thier own devices and watching the innovators such as a Smokey Yunick, Junior Johnson, Ralph Moody and later Gary Nelson, work thier magic.

Most likely the sport would still be viable, but the fan base substantially less, by more than one-half, as pointed out by Hardscrabble, people today want instant results, and watching a car 14 laps in front of the second place car ain't thrilling to most folks.
Just reading comments about any race with no acidents or few lead changes are dissed as being boring, while in the lapped cars or backmarkers, there are exciting races taking place.
But when you start talking about an old phart boB, well, just remember I am older than you are, been tied out in some bad weather but like fine whiskey, aged well. Thanks mostly, to a good woman who has put up with me by sharing our married life for almost forty years.

 

[boB]

Whiz, you ain't that much older than me! An' just for the record, my wife has tolerated me for over forty years now, she usually went along to the racetracks with the two kids in tow, (you wouldn't believe some of the junk VW's and rusty station wagons she drove around the country) and she always either chained me in the barn or made sure the chain was long enough so that I could crawl in under the porch and get out of the weather.
Woman has just been too kind to me all these years!!

As far as haulers go, the last year we ran the LMS series, we bought an old International school bus, cut the back end of it off and added some ramps for the car, converted what was left into a combination shop and living room, complete with a couple of chairs and an old sofa. Even had a 12 volt refrigerator to keep the beer cold. Such luxury...

How about Isky and STP tee shirts? Or the old Mr. Horsepower woodpecker with the cigar?

As for the aged whiskey...gave that up years ago. Lord did I enjoy good whiskey!!
But we don't mention that when the wife is around; she still has me on triple, double, secret probation for some of the stunts....but it sure was fun at the time.
I think??