Why aren't there more BIG teams in NASCAR?

K

KingGlamis

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Obviously the BIG teams win the most. Why aren't there more of them?

I'm talking Hendrick, Gibbs, RCR, Roush and Stewart Haas. These organizations field the majority of the winners year in and year out. They have the most money and resources so it makes sense that they do well.

It seems only about 25-30 drivers have a chance of winning anymore, and most of them belong to the BIG teams.

It just boggles my mind that we still have "also-rans" in NASCAR. Take Robby Gordon for example. Made a big name in off-road racing and he is very good at that type of racing. But he flat sucks at NASCAR. Maybe it's because he is not a part of Hendrick, maybe it's because he just isn't that good. I don't know. But my point is, why isn't there an XYZ Motorsports that is just as well funded as Hendrick or Roush that hires good drivers and fires bad drivers (for example, put Robby in the best possible cars for one season, if he fails, fire him, if he wins, great!).

I honestly think the BIG teams have a huge advantage over the small teams. And yet we have all these small teams trying to get by year after year with no hope of ever winning.

It's like an NFL team playing against a college team.

But my main point is, why don't we have more NFL-level teams? Why do we have teams that couldn't even win in Nationwide competing in Cup? And why aren't more rich guys stepping up to create teams like Hendrick or Roush?

Thanks for reading, rant off...
 
Because the big teams have big money for big R&D for big performance.

The way the economy is, you'll lose money before you make money in NASCAR. Look at Kyle Busch and Tony Stewart- Making their own teams, but only as satelites of others. Because they know they can't make money just starting out, so they borrow the big money to start out. When they make enough money, they'll split off, get their own shop and R&D Department, and be their own mega team. Tony is already laying the groundwork for that. I figure he will be his own entity here in a couple of years.
 
Three of the names you listed Hendrick, RCR, Roush have been in the sport for almost 3 decades now. They got that much of a head start on everybody else that wants to start a team. To me you can throw all the money around you want in a hurry to get the equipment those guys have, but you wont have the knowledge to manage it or the people to operate it with out time. A new team in the sport has to find chassis well if he buys them from another big team like Hendrick then Ricks boys already got the upper hand in that they know what Front Geometry will work and what wont work as well as drive train and everything else. While the new guy is trying to figure this out Ricks and Richards guys are running up front scoring the pay checks every week.


Robbie Gordon use to run pretty damn good when he ran the #31 for RCR. I remember him winning a few races and being pretty dominant on the road courses. Now he is off having fun doing his off road stuff and trying to make races in cup races for the quick cash. If he focused all his resources onto his cup stuff again he might start coming around but you cant help those who dont want to help themselves. He is happy how his shop is operating.
 
People like Childress, Rousch, Ganassi, Penske, Hendrick are rare gems, their skills just don't come around that often.


From a strictly business model one has to be most insane to try to make money at racing or even just survive. Racing somebody else's cars and money is almost always the first option, unless you are born rich.


Not exactly a match but Eddie Sharp racing is the newest or at least the latest to try some expansion with the trucks. He says he is pure racer, or in other words he doesn't have a fall back business to help pay the bills. Racing is the total deal.


I wish him the best, but that kind of model would scare me to death. I think the odds are incredibly difficult. I hope he proves me to be wrong.
 
KingGlamis said:
It seems only about 25-30 drivers have a chance of winning anymore, and most of them belong to the BIG teams.
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That line stood out to me the most. Only 25-30 drivers have a chance? That's a phenomenal increase over way back when I started watching this sport. Big teams, little teams, whatever the case. To think that more than half the field is a possible contender on a given Sunday, that's great IMO. Sixteen different winners over the course of this season with eight to go. I like what I'm seeing.
 
One reason is there isn't hardly any room left for another big team, think you got all the teams mentioned: Childress, Gibbs, Gnassi, Hendrick, Penske, Roush, & Stewart-Haas. Those teams alone account for half of a Cup field. Then you got RPM, Front Row, & MWR leaving only a little over 10 slots in the field for everyone else. You know back in the day, two cars on one team was considered a kind of super team & then when Hendrick showed up and started fielding three cars, it was like holy cow. Now having only two cars seems like a budget team. Starting a super team today would be very tough unless you had connections starting off & you owned a major company & could sponsor your own car or something like say John Menard. I'm sure if he wanted to, he could start his own Cup team with his son as driver #1 and hire 3 up and comming drivers for cars 2, 3, & 4. He has the money & for sure the connections but he already did that in CART, now he just wants to relax but at the same time fullfill his son's dream of racing so to do that he offers money to a well known & respected car owner like Richard Childress & in turn RCR puts him in one of his seats, only the joke was on all the Menards haters cause it paid off with a third Brickyard win as a car owner. If NASCAR came out & said two cars was the Max from now on, then things would change drastically...
 
KingGlamis said:
It seems only about 25-30 drivers have a chance of winning anymore, and most of them belong to the BIG teams.
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Most are from big teams, but not all. Bayne and Regan Smith come to mind. The big boys dominate every form of racing, but nascar has a better mix of winners than most.
 
Regardless of team size I would say competition right now is at an all time high in many ways. No one driver this season has tore out and dominated. Not to say that this won't happen in the last 8 (more than likely by the 48.) On any given Sunday there are MANY more drivers who have a shot at victory, more than there was even 10-15 years ago. I think some of this has to do with the number of fuel mileage decisions we have saw this year. However, there are many more cars that are fielded now that have a chance to win on speed alone. Many more than what there used to be anyway....
 
KingGlamis said:
But my main point is, why don't we have more NFL-level teams? Why do we have teams that couldn't even win in Nationwide competing in Cup? And why aren't more rich guys stepping up to create teams like Hendrick or Roush?

Thanks for reading, rant off...
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Okay I'll admit I don't really understand your complaint/rant? Here's a couple comments anyway.
First off you can't compare Winning in the NFL to Winning in NASCAR Cup. Each NFL game 2 teams show up one Wins one Loses and there's 16 games a week. In NASCAR sometimes as many as 48-50 show up 43 race and ONE Wins....there's also only One Cup race a week.
Secondly this year:
Kurt Busch
Jeff Burton
Trevor Bayne
Jeff Gordon
Carl Edwards
Kevin Harvick
Matt Kenseth
Jimmie Johnson
Kyle Busch
Regan Smith
David Ragan
Brad Keselowski
Denny Hamlin
Ryan Newman
Paul Menard
Marcus Ambrouse
Tony Stewart

17 different drivers Have Won.....thats not enough Winners SO FAR this season?
 
Restrictor Plate King! said:
Starting a super team today would be very tough unless you had connections starting off & you owned a major company & could sponsor your own car or something like say John Menard.
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Starting up any team in cup takes mega money. 20 mil plus is the last figure I heard needed to run competitivly. There's very few John Menards around.
 
Factory support is a biggy. The big 4 teams, Gibbs, Childress, Rousch and Hendrick have been around a long time and have been at the top of their games so long that they get the most support.
 
FlFlash said:
Jeff Burton Won the second qualifier at Daytona this year.
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He may be holding the trophy but those non-points races don't count towards Cup victories. That is, unless you're using some sort of convoluted Kyle Busch victory math. :D
 
I was counting the Number of Drivers who Won a Cup event this year, I counted the Shootout..Kurt Busch..both Daytona qualifiers..Kurt Busch and Jeff Burton.. the Allstar race .. Carl Edwards..and the Showdown..David Ragan. Jeff Burton just happens to be the only one who did'nt Win a regular points event.
 
Only 25 to 30 teams have a chance to win? And whats the problem? It wasnt to many years ago that only 5 to 10 teams had a chance to win. Big teams have been around for years and have spent a ton of money. Red Bull Racing I thought could of been a big team with time and it seemed a couple years ago they were on the right track with Vickers winning a race and getting a chase spot. But it appears they arent fully invested in the sport and there pulling out so its no suprise there cars arent winning races although Kahne has been competitive at a few tracks.
 
basscatcher89 said:
Three of the names you listed Hendrick, RCR, Roush have been in the sport for almost 3 decades now. They got that much of a head start on everybody else that wants to start a team. To me you can throw all the money around you want in a hurry to get the equipment those guys have, but you wont have the knowledge to manage it or the people to operate it with out time. A new team in the sport has to find chassis well if he buys them from another big team like Hendrick then Ricks boys already got the upper hand in that they know what Front Geometry will work and what wont work as well as drive train and everything else. While the new guy is trying to figure this out Ricks and Richards guys are running up front scoring the pay checks every week.


Robbie Gordon use to run pretty damn good when he ran the #31 for RCR. I remember him winning a few races and being pretty dominant on the road courses. Now he is off having fun doing his off road stuff and trying to make races in cup races for the quick cash. If he focused all his resources onto his cup stuff again he might start coming around but you cant help those who dont want to help themselves. He is happy how his shop is operating.
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This says it all. To be dominate you need more than money, you need the experience as well. There have been teams that have come and gone that have had deeper pockets than HMS, RCR, and Roush put together. Does Red Bull come to mind? Yet they can't make it in this sport. Money may buy you some success and win you a race here and there (like red bull has), but it wont make you dominate. It wont win you 5 championships in a row. Give Red Bull a decade or two and maybe they will compete for championships year in and out. However they are already folding.
 
I'm pretty sure it was Junior Johnson that once said "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start out with a really big one".

I'm sure there are some old timers who would know if my memory is correct on that one.

It would not only take a ton of money to start a race team that could eventually compete with the big teams, it would take a really long time. You would have to build a really strong team of builders, R&D guys and facilities, administrative staff, and many more before you even get to the point of finding great pit crew guys and eventually drivers.

Also, you certainly couldn't build a competitive team with only guys who don't currently have jobs in the sport. So, you'd have to convince these guys to leave their current positions to take a chance on you and your organization. Part of that convincing would have to come in the form of seriously overpaying for these people.

It would take way too much money to see an operation like that through until the point where it would actually start turning a profit. The only people who have the kind of money it would take also have way too much sense to spend that much money on such a bad business idea.
 
It kind of shocks me that Red Bull is already pulling the plug. I thought for sure they would eventually be one of the better teams to beat down the road because of the deep pockets and what the learned in F1, you got to spend money to win races. There is no telling what they spend in F1 so why not NASCAR?
 
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