Will Hendrick's (Chevy's) dominance hurt Nascar?

[RobbyG Fan]

Hendrick has taken 7 out of 10 wins so far this season.

Chevy has taken 9 out of 10 wins so far this season.


Think it will hurt Nascar? Will TV ratings/fan attendance/audience interest drop due to what seems to be a common cycle now being played out with it basically being Hendrick (and to a much lesser extent RCR) versus the field?


Discuss.

 

[N2racin44]

Sure it will if it continues. What can NASCAR do about it though? I mean can they really punish a team by giving to others just because Hendrick is on a roll right now? Hendrick has the people. At most that can happen will be over time other teams will start overpaying some of the Hendrick employess to lure them away from Hendrick however the key associates will still be around to keep the teams rollin.

 

[BobbyFord]

Hendrick has taken 7 out of 10 wins so far this season.

Chevy has taken 9 out of 10 wins so far this season.


Think it will hurt Nascar? Will TV ratings/fan attendance/audience interest drop due to what seems to be a common cycle now being played out with it basically being Hendrick (and to a much lesser extent RCR) versus the field?


Discuss.

In a word....

No.

There are currently more Chevrolets in the field than any other manufacturer. It's always been that way. Main reason being that Chevrolet parts are far cheaper than parts for the other manufacturers. It's not a "common cycle", there are simply more Chevrolets. It's the same as in local racing at any level. People choose Chevrolet for drag racing, local circle track racing, whether it be dirt, concrete or asphalt. Simply put, Chevrolets are cheaper and more economical to build and run than any other manufacturer.
That's what makes me a Ford guy
When NASCAR implemented the car cap rule it was admittedly implemented (by NASCAR) to hinder Roush's dominance of the sport. Roush had 5 cars in the chase, 60% of the Fords were in the chase. At the time there were only 9 Fords in the field.
Statistically Chevrolet should win more races because the majority of the cars in the field are, in fact, Chevrolets.
Will it hurt the sport? No.

 

[Magnethead]

from a non fan, i'd imagine it's looking Formula 1ish. Same people keep winning.

from a fan, it's called "who cares, racing is racing, long as (one of) my team(s) win(s)".

 

[This Buds For Me]

from a non fan, i'd imagine it's looking Formula 1ish. Same people keep winning.

from a fan, it's called "who cares, racing is racing, long as (one of) my team(s) win(s)".

i was out playing around yesterday and didnt get a chance to cut the tv on until late in the race...when i did...i saw that Hendrick was 1 2 3....turned the channel to the Braves game.

I"m not watching that crap.

 

[kam]

what is the real difference between manufacturers in the cot? Engine?

 

[barelypure]

If you look at a lot of sports you will see times when certain teams appear to dominate. Did the Yankees hurt baseball? NE Pats football? Bulls NBA? Or does it bring in new fans, some to pull for the champion but many more to pull against them?

 

[tkj24]

If you look at a lot of sports you will see times when certain teams appear to dominate. Did the Yankees hurt baseball? NE Pats football? Bulls NBA? Or does it bring in new fans, some to pull for the champion but many more to pull against them?

You nailed it BP.

 

[This Buds For Me]

If you look at a lot of sports you will see times when certain teams appear to dominate. Did the Yankees hurt baseball? NE Pats football? Bulls NBA? Or does it bring in new fans, some to pull for the champion but many more to pull against them?

I think the Yankees hurt baseball for awhile in the late 90's, before the season started you already knew that they had bought err i mean won the WS. I dont know that the Pats hurt the NFL.

The Bulls helped the NBA, but the Lakers have had a lot of success in the early 2000's and i cant say they have helped the NBA.

It's hard to compare sports with salary caps verses sports that dont have salary caps.

When teams dominate in sports that have salary caps you have to respect them a whole lot more simply because you have to place the right people here and there and make things work. In sports that dont have salary caps you will typically see the richer teams win most of the championships and games. In Nascar you see the same thing. Although in Nascar i dont think it would be remotely possible to create a salary cap because there are so many people and things that go on a race team.

I have a lot more respect for the Pats then i do the Yankees...simply because the Pats were only allowed to spend so much money (same as all other teams) and they figured out a way to put the best team on the field.

The Yankees have a bottomless check book...much like Hendrick and can afford to spend much much more than their competition. The sport becomes more about who can spend more money than who can assemble the best team and win championships.

Salary caps create a mindset that if all teams are only allowed to spend so much money....then a fan thats in a small market can realistically believe that at some point their team will be a playoff team and can compete for championships. In sports without salary caps you have teams in the larger markets that typically dominate the sport which in turn turns off the fans in the smaller markets because they know that their team will never be able to compete with the bigger teams.

Nascar will probably loose more fans than they will gain if one team dominates as much as Hendrick has lately simply because its not fun when you know who is going to win the race week in and week out.

But, money makes the world go round.................

 

[N2racin44]

I am thinking more along the lines of Hendrick domination. a 70 percent win ratio? Sorry but if Jeff, Kyle, and Jimmy when 70 percent of the races this year there will be a negative reaction from the fans.

 

[Mopardh9]

It would be nice to see a salary cap in Nascar.

 

[This Buds For Me]

It would be nice to see a salary cap in Nascar.

yes it would....but how could you do something like that in nascar?

The only way i could see even considering that is by franchising...even then it would be hard.

 

[Mopardh9]

yes it would....but how could you do something like that in nascar?

The only way i could see even considering that is by franchising...even then it would be hard.

Pretty simple really you set x amount as the spending limit per owner per year.

 

[This Buds For Me]

Pretty simple really you set x amount as the spending limit per owner per year.

Yea i see what your saying...but with the way nascar is ran...i think that it would be very hard to keep track of...nascar is different in the fact that their expenses arent mainly personal, it's mainly equipment and research.

 

[barelypure]

That would be might hard to do. Some teams tear up more cars which I suppose leads to them having to spend more money either fixing those cars or building new ones. Or, are you saying well if you tear up the cars and run out of money even tho you're running for a championship tough. I don't see them ever going for that.

 

[Mopardh9]

Yea i see what your saying...but with the way nascar is ran...i think that it would be very hard to keep track of...nascar is different in the fact that their expenses arent mainly personal, it's mainly equipment and research.

Well each team and owner would have to make public what is spent just like the NFL, of course this will never happen without the UNION. Nascar will continue on its' merry monopolistic way, i don't forsee anything or anyone changing it.

 

[Whizzer]

So many questions and so little time

What kind of logic is this about money spent by HMS vs. other teams??

And please tell me why a race fan would turn off a race because one team won regularly??

It makes me wonder if those same people turned off races when an Earnhardt won ?? Or Tony Stewart ??
Or is that different ??

By way of example, did the same people turn off races in the decade when RCR was top dog and the driver won repeated championships ?? Did they use similar logic and level charges RCR had a bigger budget ??

By definition, a race afficianado watches races for the pleasure of seeing strategies and driver skill play out with hopes the other race team (the unfavored team) gets their a$$ kicked on track.

What we are seeing today is no different than what was seen in the days of Richard Petty being scorned by the multitudes, for consistently winning. The argument from Petty nay-sayers during that period in time was the same as today, BIG money.

Partially true, but mainly, Richard Petty made sure his cars were properly prepared BEFORE they went racing. Richard himself, was always prepared and demanded nothing less from his employees.

Note what happens to many of the teams these days and why they are not as consistent as HMS cars.
A perfect example being, on Friday, one of the fastest cars at Richmond had a part fall inside the engine. The part was "fished" out and the engine left in the car.
Failing to replace the engine was a decision made by those in charge on this well financed, factory backed team.
That decision, right, wrong or indifferent, is why HMS consistently goes to the winners circle. Other teams decisions, or lack thereof, many times, permit this to happen.
IMO, had this engine situation taken place in the HMS garage, that engine would have been replaced.
BUT, Do not fault HMS for doing things right.
RCR and Roush and soon to be Evernham, have high dollar sponsors, outside partners, factory support and access to nearly anything necessary to win, just as does HMS.
Part of the difference between HMS and other teams is getting the right people to make decisions and making sure things are done right.
No matter how much money is spent, without the right people making sound decisions and making sure things are done and done right, there will not be consistency.

 

[Mopardh9]

That would be might hard to do. Some teams tear up more cars which I suppose leads to them having to spend more money either fixing those cars or building new ones. Or, are you saying well if you tear up the cars and run out of money even tho you're running for a championship tough. I don't see them ever going for that.

Yeh well they have enough spare parts they would have to fix the car. Make it fair and the competition would be much better, it wouldn't be boring watching Hendrick cars 1,2,3 all the time.

 

[Mopardh9]

So many questions and so little time

What kind of logic is this about money spent by HMS vs. other teams??

And please tell me why a race fan would turn off a race because one team won regularly??

It makes me wonder if those same people turned off races when an Earnhardt won ?? Or Tony Stewart ??
Or is that different ??

By way of example, did the same people turn off races in the decade when RCR was top dog and the driver won repeated championships ?? Did they use similar logic and level charges RCR had a bigger budget ??

By definition, a race afficianado watches races for the pleasure of seeing strategies and driver skill play out with hopes the other race team (the unfavored team) gets their a$$ kicked on track.

What we are seeing today is no different than what was seen in the days of Richard Petty being scorned by the multitudes, for consistently winning. The argument from Petty nay-sayers during that period in time was the same as today, BIG money.

Partially true, but mainly, Richard Petty made sure his cars were properly prepared BEFORE they went racing. Richard himself, was always prepared and demanded nothing less from his employees.

Note what happens to many of the teams these days and why they are not as consistent as HMS cars.
A perfect example being, on Friday, one of the fastest cars at Richmond had a part fall inside the engine. The part was "fished" out and the engine left in the car.
Failing to replace the engine was a decision made by those in charge on this well financed, factory backed team.
That decision, right, wrong or indifferent, is why HMS consistently goes to the winners circle. Other teams decisions, or lack thereof, many times, permit this to happen.
IMO, had this engine situation taken place in the HMS garage, that engine would have been replaced.
BUT, Do not fault HMS for doing things right.
RCR and Roush and soon to be Evernham, have high dollar sponsors, outside partners, factory support and access to nearly anything necessary to win, just as does HMS.
Part of the difference between HMS and other teams is getting the right people to make decisions and making sure things are done right.
No matter how much money is spent, without the right people making sound decisions and making sure things are done and done right, there will not be consistency.

Yeh i hear what you are saying Whizz but you would have to agree to make it equal all around what an owner could spend per team, would make it pretty interesting. It is getting out of hand all the money that is being spent these days, even at the local levels of racing. The right people do make a difference , but when you have a ton of money to dangle in front of these people then it becomes unfair in my opinion. I find the racing very boring this year, maybe it is just me, yesterday i watched the Red Sox game more than i did the race. In years past it would have been the other way around. I really think Nascar is becoming a ho hum sport with too much predicatability as to what team will win every week. Variety makes life interesting just like it makes Nascar interesting. Knowing Hendrick or a Chevy is going to win every week is boring as hell. At least last year we had different winners, come on 7-10, yeh sure they are good...but boring.

 

[tkj24]

I heard DW and Larry McReynolds talking yesterday about HMS. They say there is very little turn over there. Rick treats his people right. The right people in the right place and they promote from within. Some people are just better at business. DW said Rick's strategy was get the right people then build around them.

 

[N2racin44]

Today's fan is much different then the days of the Earnhardt and Petty dominance. It is all about entertainment now which is proven given the way we are now fed races compared to the old days. People today will grow sick of the same thing over and over again. Short attention span, know what I mean? Sure we will continue to tune in and watch every week. I know I will. The original question was would it hurt NASCAR. As I have stated I think it will but only for a little while. Hurt in what way? Predictability maybe? I mean at this rate the Hendrick camp will have a nice cushion of bonus points when the chase starts.

 

[muggle not]

I heard DW and Larry McReynolds talking yesterday about HMS. They say there is very little turn over there. Rick treats his people right. The right people in the right place and they promote from within. Some people are just better at business. DW said Rick's strategy was get the right people then build around them.

I tend to agree with DW on this.

 

[barelypure]

Besides I wouldn't be so quick to count out the other teams.

In fact, team owner Jack Roush talked Ford into increasing its support of the team this year. Roush said on Wednesday that Ford is paying some of the additional $10 million Roush says he had to add to his research and development budget.

NASCAR Could Find Itself Wrapped In Automakers' Wreckage
This article if from January.

 

[barelypure]

And this from Jayski

Ford's investment in NASCAR, including its marketing budget, is estimated to be just under $100 million. The company is focusing more and more on stock cars, pulling its marketing support from the struggling Champ Car World Series this season. Things won't get any easier this year for Ford in NASCAR's Nextel Cup, with Japanese rival Toyota joining DaimlerChrysler's Dodge brand and General Motors' Chevrolets as Cup rivals. "I feel like all we really need is 10 good cars, and we have nine now," said Davis, director of Ford Racing Technology. "They're not all as strong as we'd like them to be, but we feel like we're close. We would like to win 25 percent of the races on a consistent basis, and I feel like we're within striking distance."(Associated Press)(2-19-2007)

 

[This Buds For Me]

So many questions and so little time

What kind of logic is this about money spent by HMS vs. other teams??

And please tell me why a race fan would turn off a race because one team won regularly??

It makes me wonder if those same people turned off races when an Earnhardt won ?? Or Tony Stewart ??
Or is that different ??

By way of example, did the same people turn off races in the decade when RCR was top dog and the driver won repeated championships ?? Did they use similar logic and level charges RCR had a bigger budget ??

By definition, a race afficianado watches races for the pleasure of seeing strategies and driver skill play out with hopes the other race team (the unfavored team) gets their a$$ kicked on track.

What we are seeing today is no different than what was seen in the days of Richard Petty being scorned by the multitudes, for consistently winning. The argument from Petty nay-sayers during that period in time was the same as today, BIG money.

Partially true, but mainly, Richard Petty made sure his cars were properly prepared BEFORE they went racing. Richard himself, was always prepared and demanded nothing less from his employees.

Note what happens to many of the teams these days and why they are not as consistent as HMS cars.
A perfect example being, on Friday, one of the fastest cars at Richmond had a part fall inside the engine. The part was "fished" out and the engine left in the car.
Failing to replace the engine was a decision made by those in charge on this well financed, factory backed team.
That decision, right, wrong or indifferent, is why HMS consistently goes to the winners circle. Other teams decisions, or lack thereof, many times, permit this to happen.
IMO, had this engine situation taken place in the HMS garage, that engine would have been replaced.
BUT, Do not fault HMS for doing things right.
RCR and Roush and soon to be Evernham, have high dollar sponsors, outside partners, factory support and access to nearly anything necessary to win, just as does HMS.
Part of the difference between HMS and other teams is getting the right people to make decisions and making sure things are done right.
No matter how much money is spent, without the right people making sound decisions and making sure things are done and done right, there will not be consistency.

I'm not sure you can compare RCR and PE to this...i mean has a team ever started out winning 8 out of 10 races? we are 10 races in and HMS has won 80% of the races.

 

[barelypure]

I'm not sure you can compare RCR and PE to this...i mean has a team ever started out winning 8 out of 10 races? we are 10 races in and HMS has won 80% of the races.

7 of 10. Harvick, Kenseth and Burton are the other 3. Or IOW, OH MY STARS, RCR has won 2 out of 10 does this mean the end of the World as we know it...

 

[This Buds For Me]

7 of 10. Harvick, Kenseth and Burton are the other 3. Or IOW, OH MY STARS, RCR has won 2 out of 10 does this mean the end of the World as we know it...

nice sarcasm........

 

[barelypure]

no offense meant

 

[Magnethead]

you can't cap money directly. You can cap testing (by tire rule). You can cap cars per team. You can have an engine rule. You can cap manufacturing cost (long term, COT common chassis). You can partially cap engine costs (illegial materials, engine restrictions). But that money can always get moved around from department to department.

The only way to further reduce the costs is by dropping compression ratio and making a "two weekend per engine" rule. Short of that, it's open range for spending.

 

[Digger]

This season it's been the same cars up front: Ky. Busch, Johnson, Gordon, Harvick, Hamlin, Burton, Kenseth.

The Hendrick cars are good and consistent as some of the other teams. They've also had the luck to stay out of trouble (minus Busch).

Sure, Gordon and Johnson are really great drivers, and I won't say they aren't. But any racefan knows that there's an element of luck.

Sterling Marlin in 2002.

Matt Kenseth in 2003.

Up until 2005, the best cars weren't winning the championship. Now, they are. IF Harvick had better luck, he'd have three or four more wins this season - but he's had terrible luck.

IF Junyer had better luck, he'd have two or three wins.

The front runners are getting wrecked by lapped cars and making pit road mistakes, and Hendrick's there at the end.

Ways to stop it is to start penalizing lapped cars for racing aggressively - but is that fair, they're racing to.

I would say get rid of the free pass - but then, good lapped cars aren't there in the end (but that would've also cost Johnson 10 top 10s last year).

More caution consistency. Ever since the Tony Stewart flap - I've noticed there aren't 5 or 6 debris cautions a race anymore. NASCAR's getting there.

GWC - let them race back. If they could, the result would've been different at Talladega in the fall last year and this spring. They made the right call at Daytona, they made the wrong call at Talladega on two different occassions (Spring 2004, Fall 2006).

There's a couple of NASCAR policies that have played into Hendrick's hands. Mosly, it's been good cars and good luck. All the other teams are lacking either the cars, luck, or talent.

I don't know if there's anything NASCAR can or should do, Hendrick's on a roll. I don't think it'll last the entire year (if it does, fans will leave in a big way). They've got the COT figured out as does RCR, DEI and JGR.

Oh, having a 4 car team doesn't hurt. Cap the number to 3. Why they capped at 4 and not 3 is beyond me - but they wanted to hurt Roush.

On another note, I think NASCAR needs to look at helping Toyota somewhere. They've helped Dodge and Ford on a number of occassions, but not Toyota. Why?

 

[Digger]

you can't cap money directly. You can cap testing (by tire rule). You can cap cars per team. You can have an engine rule. You can cap manufacturing cost (long term, COT common chassis). You can partially cap engine costs (illegial materials, engine restrictions). But that money can always get moved around from department to department.

The only way to further reduce the costs is by dropping compression ratio and making a "two weekend per engine" rule. Short of that, it's open range for spending.

They've tried this. Hendrick worked around it.

EVERY TEAM should have an equal amount of testing.

 

[Digger]

Today's fan is much different then the days of the Earnhardt and Petty dominance. It is all about entertainment now which is proven given the way we are now fed races compared to the old days. People today will grow sick of the same thing over and over again. Short attention span, know what I mean? Sure we will continue to tune in and watch every week. I know I will. The original question was would it hurt NASCAR. As I have stated I think it will but only for a little while. Hurt in what way? Predictability maybe? I mean at this rate the Hendrick camp will have a nice cushion of bonus points when the chase starts.

America likes to see an underdog win. This happens frequently in NFL, MLB and other sports. The way NASCAR is setup now, that's not possible. If you have more money to spend, you will dominate. If you have a low bodget, you won't. COT was supposed to help this - so far, it's done the oppositte.

For one, the top 35 rule - is complete and utter bull. Don't give the lower budget teams a long shot in hell at making races - that'll fix it. :eyeroll:

I thought they changed the testing rules, but clearly they didn't.

 

[Magnethead]

America likes to see an underdog win. This happens frequently in NFL, MLB and other sports. The way NASCAR is setup now, that's not possible. If you have more money to spend, you will dominate. If you have a low bodget, you won't. COT was supposed to help this - so far, it's done the oppositte.

For one, the top 35 rule - is complete and utter bull. Don't give the lower budget teams a long shot in hell at making races - that'll fix it. :eyeroll:

I thought they changed the testing rules, but clearly they didn't.

Here's how testing works. You can only run the official tests for tracks on the cup circuit. Other tracks like kentucky are free game. BUT, you must go to goodyear and they supply tires with a CLOSE, BUT NOT EXACT compound to what would be used in competition. That way you can get seat time, but the setup wont trransfer much due to the different compound.

 

[Mopardh9]

you can't cap money directly. You can cap testing (by tire rule). You can cap cars per team. You can have an engine rule. You can cap manufacturing cost (long term, COT common chassis). You can partially cap engine costs (illegial materials, engine restrictions). But that money can always get moved around from department to department.

The only way to further reduce the costs is by dropping compression ratio and making a "two weekend per engine" rule. Short of that, it's open range for spending.

Why can't you cap the money spent??? Like i said before the books must be made public, pretty simple concept, that way everyone knows including the fans , how much is spent during a season. This would keep owners from fielding 4 cars and most likely limit them to 2 possibly 3 teams. It would spread out the wealth a little and give the smaller teams a chance to field cars. Get rid of the top 35 rule, its' time this has gone to the wayside, only the fastest 43 make it period....no provissionals. Make these guys actually earn a qualifying spot rather than giving them one if they are off on speed.

 

[This Buds For Me]

Why can't you cap the money spent??? Like i said before the books must be made public, pretty simple concept, that way everyone knows including the fans , how much is spent during a season. This would keep owners from fielding 4 cars and most likely limit them to 2 possibly 3 teams. It would spread out the wealth a little and give the smaller teams a chance to field cars. Get rid of the top 35 rule, its' time this has gone to the wayside, only the fastest 43 make it period....no provissionals. Make these guys actually earn a qualifying spot rather than giving them one if they are off on speed.

because race teams are creative...in order to get around the rule all they have to do is create another company to either pay people or purchase parts and do research. In all other sports your salary cap only includes the people that are on the field, not what is behind the scenes. In nascar the people behind the scenes and everything else is what makes a team good. And to police what goes on behind the scenes is almost impossible.

 

[barelypure]

Like i said before the books must be made public

These are private entities. You do not have a right to examine their books. If they were public corporations and you owned stock then you would have that right and they would be legally required to release the numbers. But, there are plenty of accounting methods to hide the true numbers even then.

If you really want to even the field between the 5, 24 and 48 with all the rest of the teams there is really only one way. Put in a passenger seat and have Jimmy Spencer ride along with them...

 

[kat2220]

If you really want to even the field between the 5, 24 and 48 with all the rest of the teams there is really only one way. Put in a passenger seat and have Jimmy Spencer ride along with them...

Include some Krispy Kremes!

 

[Mopardh9]

These are private entities. You do not have a right to examine their books. If they were public corporations and you owned stock then you would have that right and they would be legally required to release the numbers. But, there are plenty of accounting methods to hide the true numbers even then.

If you really want to even the field between the 5, 24 and 48 with all the rest of the teams there is really only one way. Put in a passenger seat and have Jimmy Spencer ride along with them...

Why can't you make it public? Make it a Nascar rule, they make up rules about everything else!

 

[be9ak7ts16]

Is it going to hurt NASCAR? I doubt it. It didn't hurt when Petty, Elliott,DW,The Allisons and a host of others dominated. What keeps me watching is who's going to knock them off the top. Little more tweaking with the COT and you never know whats going to happen.

 

[vanzetti]

Little more tweaking with the COT and you never know whats going to happen.

Exactly... so HMS has it figured out... So what. Someone was BOUND to 'get it' first. It won't last forever. It's not like the other teams aren't working just as hard, if not harder now....

It won't be too long before someone figures 'something else' out.