L
LoTTaJohnSoN6369
Guest
vote
H
Harry P. Nass
Guest
martin s**ks
S
slick-nick
Guest
Whats up with you trolls today? 
Don't feed them slick!Originally posted by slick-nick@Mar 10 2004, 01:46 PM
Whats up with you trolls today?
S
slick-nick
Guest
LOL - good point.
H
Happy29
Guest
No, Roush will most likely divert all his resources to Kenseth, so that would leave Burton out, it would probably force Martin into retirement or another ride as Roush does have plans to replace him with Carl Edwards within the next few years.
R
redrock
Guest
I would like to see it for the sport, but I doubt it can happen...
E
EatMorePossum
Guest
He's already won one. 1990. Only thing is, NASCAR gave it to Earnhardt.
R
RobbyG Fan
Guest
What is the story behind this? Ive always wondered about this because Ive heard it mentioned before but never really knew what happened or what were the reasons behind it. I didnt follow Nascar much back then, so can anyone inform me?
It has to do with the points taken away for an unapproved engine part --- if memory serves.
Mark was given a 46 point penalty --- DE won the WC by 26 points.
Found it --- Race #2 Richmond 1990
Following a lengthy post-race inspection performed by NASCAR, Martin and his Roush team were fined $40,000 and 46 WC points for an infraction in the carburetor.
Technial director Dick Beaty said the carburetor on Martin's Ford was mounted on the engine's intake manifold with an aluminum block spacer half an inch thicker that the two inches allowed.
Team manager Steve Hmiel said spacers more than two inches thick have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin's engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor.
Mark was given a 46 point penalty --- DE won the WC by 26 points.
Found it --- Race #2 Richmond 1990
Following a lengthy post-race inspection performed by NASCAR, Martin and his Roush team were fined $40,000 and 46 WC points for an infraction in the carburetor.
Technial director Dick Beaty said the carburetor on Martin's Ford was mounted on the engine's intake manifold with an aluminum block spacer half an inch thicker that the two inches allowed.
Team manager Steve Hmiel said spacers more than two inches thick have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin's engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor.
de7xwcc
Anarchist
yada, yada, yada
E
EatMorePossum
Guest
In short, Martin was penalized for an engine part that was not proven to enhance performance and was not illegal. NASCAR somehow decided he would have finished 9th at a race instead of winning. How, I don't know. It cost him 46 points. Earnhardt won the title by 26. Martin's race win was allowed to stand though, another curiosity. I guess he was legal enough to win the race but so illegal he should have finished 9th. Either way, it stank to high heaven.
B
bowtie
Guest
R
RobbyG Fan
Guest
46 points? Has that been the stiffest point penalty that Nascar has ever made?
As far as losing by 26 points, Nascar would never have imagined what the outcome would be 10 months later, so you cant exactly blame Nascar directly.
Damm, that must have sucked. Was it Roush or Martin's crew chief at the time who ordered that alteration?
As far as losing by 26 points, Nascar would never have imagined what the outcome would be 10 months later, so you cant exactly blame Nascar directly.
Damm, that must have sucked. Was it Roush or Martin's crew chief at the time who ordered that alteration?
S
slick-nick
Guest
Well said, my friend.
97forever
Team Owner
That was the largest penalty ever accessed by Nascar up to that point. It was decided and admitted by Nascar in the end that no performance edge could be gained by the spacer ---and the main problem seemed to be it was bolted, rather than welded on.
True, Nascar had no way of knowing how the penalty would have affected Mark at the end of the season but the fact remains Mark Martin outpointed Dale Earnhardt that season.
Just a tough break for Mark. The younger guys might not realize it, but Mark Martin was a helluva driver back in the day!
Heres to the REAL 1990 WC Champ!
True, Nascar had no way of knowing how the penalty would have affected Mark at the end of the season but the fact remains Mark Martin outpointed Dale Earnhardt that season.
Just a tough break for Mark. The younger guys might not realize it, but Mark Martin was a helluva driver back in the day!
Heres to the REAL 1990 WC Champ!
F
Flametamer
Guest
Hey, Mark Martin is still a great driver. and Dale Earnhardt is the true 1990 Champion.
97forever
Team Owner
G
Gollum
Guest
Mark Martin is a classy guy. I wiuld like to see him win one. But I don't think he will. I belive he has reached the age that his days in Nascar are numbered. 
W
Windsor377
Guest
Not exactly. Had the spacer been welded on, no problem would have existed. Total height was OK.
W
Windsor377
Guest
I thought it was the other way around?
F
fordroush
Guest
I think will retire within the next two years, but it would still be nice to see a championship before he goes.
And as for Roush forcing Mark out, Mark owns the #17 car. So even if he retires he would still be working for Roush.
D
DE_Wrangler_2
Guest
I don't think Mark will win one. The reason? He drives for Jack Roush. And that, my friends, is a shame.
97forever
Team Owner
I thought it was the other way around? [/b][/quote]
?You may be correct, Windsor. All I am going on is memory since I am one of those folks who can't find anything online.
My understanding was that Nascar's point of contention was that rather than being welded on as was standard, Hmeil and company bolted Mark's spacer on. Thus, Nascars 'point' at the time was that it could have in theory have been switched at some lapse in the inspection process. At least thats how I recall it...someone more adept at net research could probably answer it more accurately. I do recall that it was very close to the proper height and the method of how it was mounted was the ONLY complaint. Again, all this is according to what I read and heard at the time....and the old memory ain't what it used to be. 
D
DE_Wrangler_2
Guest
The short of it was that it was a rules violation. Yeah it could have been petty, but it was not mounted according to the rules and it was caught by the inspection team. I never did understand the reasoning behind some saying that NASCAR took points from Mark so that Dale would win.....guess that conspiracy thing has been going on for a long, long time!! 
W
Ward Burton
Guest
Sadly enough, I said no, even though I wish he could have done it earlier, I dont see it happening now...
97forever
Team Owner
WAY before Mark and Dale, in fact , Wrangler.
But it is a little revisionist to say that 'some' say that Nascar took points away from Mark to give Dale the title. What most agree on is according to finishes and points awarded-----Martin technically accumulated more points in 1990 than did Dale Earnhardt. THEN the matter of the violation and the subtraction of points can be factored in: Giving Dale the title.
Far from being a rallying cry for the lucid--uhh---I mean the 'conspiracy theorist'---it is really an often overlooked incident except when post like these come up.
<---Here! Have one on me, anyway! :lol:
But it is a little revisionist to say that 'some' say that Nascar took points away from Mark to give Dale the title. What most agree on is according to finishes and points awarded-----Martin technically accumulated more points in 1990 than did Dale Earnhardt. THEN the matter of the violation and the subtraction of points can be factored in: Giving Dale the title.
Far from being a rallying cry for the lucid--uhh---I mean the 'conspiracy theorist'---it is really an often overlooked incident except when post like these come up.
<---Here! Have one on me, anyway! :lol:
T
Tommy29
Guest
the only Nextel cup Martin will be attached to is the one Kenseth won and as Martin as part owner of his team other than that he's seen his better days in Nascar.
D
DE_Wrangler_2
Guest
I'll take that beer!!Originally posted by 97forever@Mar 10 2004, 08:06 PM
Martin technically accumulated more points in 1990 than did Dale Earnhardt. THEN the matter of the violation and the subtraction of points can be factored in: Giving Dale the title.
Far from being a rallying cry for the lucid--uhh---I mean the 'conspiracy theorist'---it is really an often overlooked incident except when post like these come up.
And I'll offer one post on this thread (and it's really a little off topic anyway). Mark did not accumulate more points than Dale in 1990.......he was 26 pts shy (actually 27 since 26 would have tied him........and then the tie breakers would have kicked in and I don't have the stats to say who would have won then). Mark was credited with the win, but his team had an illegally mounted carburetor. The team was fined and points were deducted from the championship points. In short, they cheated and were caught (yeah I know, there was no advantage........but the rules were violated none the less). To say Mark won that year, is just not true. And I say the reason "some" say he won is because those "some" are doing one of two things: Twisting facts to meet their desires or buying into the age old "conspiracy theory". Both, in my opinion, are incorrect. Now, lets drink that beer!!! Next round is on me.
2
24thunder
Guest
I voted no,but sure wouldn't mind seeing Mark win one b4 His driving days are over,has such a Championship demeanor anyway,must be from winning all those Busch Championship and races
W
Windsor377
Guest
?You may be correct, Windsor. All I am going on is memory since I am one of those folks who can't find anything online.
My understanding was that Nascar's point of contention was that rather than being welded on as was standard, Hmeil and company bolted Mark's spacer on. Thus, Nascars 'point' at the time was that it could have in theory have been switched at some lapse in the inspection process. At least thats how I recall it...someone more adept at net research could probably answer it more accurately. I do recall that it was very close to the proper height and the method of how it was mounted was the ONLY complaint. Again, all this is according to what I read and heard at the time....and the old memory ain't what it used to be. [/b][/quote]I think we said the same thing. I mis-read your original post. I didn't look it up either. I remembered from a discussion a buddy and I had after the race.
97forever
Team Owner
Whew! Then I can quit acting like I'm not confused now, eh? :lol: :lol:
W
Windsor377
Guest
LOL!
J
judas1
Guest
I agree, and dont forget he has greg biffle too. Mark will hang out so he can get his son a ride
G
Goodwrench3
Guest
Yeah, Matt Martin will come about in a few years, well, he's still a pup but he'll be replacing the very long vacated ride of the 97. We could only hope.