Discontent with Nascar

Wow sure is a lot of discontent there. It was said , and I agree, that for the most part all of this was self inflicted . Nascar reinvents itself , monthly . We get a steady diet of new rules and gimmicks. No other sport feels the need to do this. Golf is golf , football is football , baseball is baseball . Tweeking a rule should require almost universal consent . Every fundamental part of the structure of auto racing has been turfed or changed . There is no intergrity left in this sport. Old fans don't recognize it and new fans don't care about it .
 
I'd like to see a reporter solicit opinions about some of the stick and ball sports. Betcha the old fan base there feels the same way. We do realize that the World Series would be over by now 25 years ago, right? It's not. Why? Rule changes. Money. The NFL has declining ratings, but nobody seems to care. Nobody cares about the NBA. The big difference is that NASCAR tries to listen, and then they react. In so doing, there is a perceived recognition that something is wrong. There isn't. The one fan who targeted Toyota made me laugh. Nobody gave a **** when my cars were failing to qualify. Toyota treats this sport the way Chevy and Ford used to, but those guys got complacent.
 
ted@economy said:
Wow sure is a lot of discontent there. It was said , and I agree, that for the most part all of this was self inflicted . Nascar reinvents itself , monthly . We get a steady diet of new rules and gimmicks. No other sport feels the need to do this. Golf is golf , football is football , baseball is baseball . Tweeking a rule should require almost universal consent . Every fundamental part of the structure of auto racing has been turfed or changed . There is no intergrity left in this sport. Old fans don't recognize it and new fans don't care about it .
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Football is football? They change the definition of a 'completed pass' every other year, varying between one foot in, both feet in, one knee. Pass interference is like pornography: "I'll know it when I see it." The kick-off and extra point change from yard line to line; now there's talk about eliminating the kick-off entirely. There's plenty more examples, but football AIN'T football consistently from year to year. Why else would there be a rules committee?

Ya know, for all my griping about plate races and the Chase formats, I'd still rather watch a Cup race than any other sport, televised or in person. Just this idjit's opinion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Ya know, for all my griping about plate races and the Chase formats, I'd still rather watch a Cup race than any other sport, televised or in person. Just this idjit's opinion.
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Still remember my first race....Could not believe how nothing was lost in translation between the experience in front of my TV v. live. In the stands, I have everything I need to watch with the intensity I want PLUS I can hear it, and smell it. Can't say the same with stick and ball experiences.

aunty dive said:
^ not hand-written in pencil.
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Wasn't a fat crayon.....that says something.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Football is football? They change the definition of a 'completed pass' every other year, varying between one foot in, both feet in, one knee. Pass interference is like pornography: "I'll know it when I see it." The kick-off and extra point change from yard line to line; now there's talk about eliminating the kick-off entirely. There's plenty more examples, but football AIN'T football consistently from year to year. Why else would there be a rules committee?
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I get that rules need to be tweeked . Like the rules for how and when crewmen in Nascar go over the wall to service a car . Doesn't change the game . Football doesn't change the number of downs , that would be stupid . Nascar fundamentally changes the game for no reason.
 
Revman said:
I'd like to see a reporter solicit opinions about some of the stick and ball sports. Betcha the old fan base there feels the same way. We do realize that the World Series would be over by now 25 years ago, right? It's not. Why? Rule changes. Money. The NFL has declining ratings, but nobody seems to care. Nobody cares about the NBA. The big difference is that NASCAR tries to listen, and then they react. In so doing, there is a perceived recognition that something is wrong. There isn't. The one fan who targeted Toyota made me laugh. Nobody gave a sh!t when my cars were failing to qualify. Toyota treats this sport the way Chevy and Ford used to, but those guys got complacent.
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As a fan of several other sports, I can say that none of those major sports has made changes that so radically undermine and ignore what made the sport great. MLB doesnt replace Wrigley Field with cookie cutter baseball stadiums because it is outdated. The NFL does give the losing team points in a blowout (eg fake cautions, caution clock). College football implemented a new playoff system, but took great care to fit it in with the tradition of bowls rather than destroying the system that had worked for decades. I don't spend much time critisizing these other sports I watch because it doesn't feel like the leadership is constantly trying to destroy them.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Football is football? They change the definition of a 'completed pass' every other year, varying between one foot in, both feet in, one knee. Pass interference is like pornography: "I'll know it when I see it." The kick-off and extra point change from yard line to line; now there's talk about eliminating the kick-off entirely. There's plenty more examples, but football AIN'T football consistently from year to year. Why else would there be a rules committee?
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True, football isn't consistent with its rules from year to year, but NASCAR isn't consistent with its rules from week to week. There may be others, but NASCAR is the only sport I can think of that makes rules changes in the middle of a season.
 
I 100% get where the guy who stated too many races are boring is coming from. As someone who use to never miss a lap I can honestly say the amount of races I "have" to watch isn't that big anymore.
Daytona
Talladega
Martinsville
Darlington
 
Read the article and many of the comments.

My favorite was from the guy who said he needed a "slide rule" to figure out the Chase format.

Hey, us old timers have got to stick together !!!
 
Revman said:
I'd like to see a reporter solicit opinions about some of the stick and ball sports. Betcha the old fan base there feels the same way. We do realize that the World Series would be over by now 25 years ago, right? It's not. Why? Rule changes. Money. The NFL has declining ratings, but nobody seems to care. Nobody cares about the NBA. The big difference is that NASCAR tries to listen, and then they react. In so doing, there is a perceived recognition that something is wrong. There isn't. The one fan who targeted Toyota made me laugh. Nobody gave a sh!t when my cars were failing to qualify. Toyota treats this sport the way Chevy and Ford used to, but those guys got complacent.
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As an NHL, NFL and NCAAF fan I can't say that I am thrilled with every change made over the years but overall I am very happy with the leagues and association. I don't care when the World Series begins or ends as that has nothing to do with how the game is played and all I know about basketball is that traveling is never called and it has a good demographic.

You say there is nothing wrong with Nascar and you may be correct however do you think it is advisable for Nascar to continue being right yet lose fans?
 
Revman said:
The NFL has declining ratings, but nobody seems to care. Nobody cares about the NBA.
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I don't think we inhabit the same world. The NFL's sudden ~10% decline after two decades of meteoric rises has drawn constant weekly media attention, and is the biggest television story of the year so far, let alone the biggest sports television story of the year. The NBA is probably more popular and in the best shape it's been in since the Jordan era.

NASCAR has lost half its audience in less than a decade. The "listening" it engages in has worsened the problem dramatically. No other major sport has experienced anything like this. Perhaps baseball compared to its heyday, but baseball has somewhat successfully morphed into a regional / local sport with intense interest and popularity on those levels.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
The Chase is by far the biggest issue for me and many other NASCAR fans. However, the writer barely mentioned our disgusting playoff format. He spent much more time talking about other reasons people are discontent.
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I think most former Nascar fans don't care enough to complain as they have moved on.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
The Chase is by far the biggest issue for me and many other NASCAR fans. However, the writer barely mentioned our disgusting playoff format. He spent much more time talking about other reasons people are discontent.
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I read through many of the comments following the article and it seemed to me that the majority of the complaints were about the Chase.

and Toyotas . . .
 
Watched the 2002 Pop Secret 500 @ Rockingham, and the racing was superb, there was a points battle, but not shoving "playoffs" down our throats all the time, more of a focus on good racing. Now all we get is "well in OTHER sports, such and such does this, and such and such rule such as so this validates the playoff format!"

There is a few tracks that should only have 1 date a year for attendance. Attendance would look better with 1 Sprint Cup date.

Let's ditch a Kansas, Michigan, Charlotte (fall) race that have 2-3 race weekends a year in favor of going to some new markets - Gateway, Road America, maybe build a track in the Denver or Seattle area that replicates Rockingham.
 
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Just get the cars off the ground. They're too aero dependent anymore, it's the reason sprint car racing IMO is much better, the amount of passing is ridiculous.

As for sport growth, market your damn stars. Just as baseball fails to, you have a ton of great drivers in the game, they just aren't showcased properly by NASCAR.

Lastly go to the chase format we used to have, but make wins be 12 extra points or 55. You want to
make guys win? In today's sponsor crazy day it's all about points titles, so give a crap ton of points away to the winners
 
the empty seats today is all about the discontent with nascar. how can their be that many empty seats at a chase races?
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Just get the cars off the ground. They're too aero dependent anymore, it's the reason sprint car racing IMO is much better, the amount of passing is ridiculous.

As for sport growth, market your damn stars. Just as baseball fails to, you have a ton of great drivers in the game, they just aren't showcased properly by NASCAR.

Lastly go to the chase format we used to have, but make wins be 12 extra points or 55. You want to
make guys win? In today's sponsor crazy day it's all about points titles, so give a crap ton of points away to the winners
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Agreed. Dirt track racing is much better in general.

Gen6 has been garbage the past couple years.
 
AuzGrams said:
Watched the 2002 Pop Secret 500 @ Rockingham, and the racing was superb, there was a points battle, but not shoving "playoffs" down our throats all the time, more of a focus on good racing. Now all we get is "well in OTHER sports, such and such does this, and such and such rule such as so this validates the playoff format!"

There is a few tracks that should only have 1 date a year for attendance. Attendance would look better with 1 Sprint Cup date.

Let's ditch a Kansas, Michigan, Charlotte (fall) race that have 2-3 race weekends a year in favor of going to some new markets - Gateway, Road America, maybe build a track in the Denver or Seattle area that replicates Rockingham.
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Rockingham ... :(
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
Rockingham ... :(
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ISC has been wanting to build a track in the Denver area for a number of years, and basically "rebuilding" this track in Colorado to similiar specs to Rockingham would make sense. I don't think there's any saving Rockingham anymore.
 
BobbyFord said:
I watch about 15-20 races per year. I lose no sleep if NASCAR goes away.
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I try and keep my expectations low but generally look forward to the road courses, Martinsville, Phoenix, Darlington and hope I can get 1 good race from the 2 each at Bristol and Richmond. IMO Richmond has fallen off the map. If Nascar is around I will watch some of it but like you if it disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't be upset ot inco
gnomesayin said:
I don't think we inhabit the same world. The NFL's sudden ~10% decline after two decades of meteoric rises has drawn constant weekly media attention, and is the biggest television story of the year so far, let alone the biggest sports television story of the year. The NBA is probably more popular and in the best shape it's been in since the Jordan era.

NASCAR has lost half its audience in less than a decade. The "listening" it engages in has worsened the problem dramatically. No other major sport has experienced anything like this. Perhaps baseball compared to its heyday, but baseball has somewhat successfully morphed into a regional / local sport with intense interest and popularity on those levels.
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I agree and when anyone tries to compare a ratings decline in the NFL to the gutting that Nascar has experienced over the last decade all you can do is shake your head.
 
Revman said:
I'd like to see a reporter solicit opinions about some of the stick and ball sports. Betcha the old fan base there feels the same way. We do realize that the World Series would be over by now 25 years ago, right? It's not. Why? Rule changes. Money. The NFL has declining ratings, but nobody seems to care. Nobody cares about the NBA. The big difference is that NASCAR tries to listen, and then they react. In so doing, there is a perceived recognition that something is wrong. There isn't. The one fan who targeted Toyota made me laugh. Nobody gave a sh!t when my cars were failing to qualify. Toyota treats this sport the way Chevy and Ford used to, but those guys got complacent.
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The on field product hasn't changed drastically though.

If the NFL went from playing on a 360 foot field to a 1,080 foot field and if every tackle resulted in an injury, you'd see a pretty large revolt.

That's essentially what's happened with NASCAR.
 
I've been a NASCAR fan for over 35 years.

Rusty Wallace was my all time favorite and I liked guys like Davey Allison, Ricky Rudd, never was a Earnhardt fan but respected him

Had a group of friends and we'd hit up a few races a year (Michigan mostly, chicago land few times, ORP for busch series)

For daytona we'd get a pool going drawing numbers placing money

Every Labor day weekend we'd get together for darlington and cookout, same for coca cola 600(which was a long day with indy)

Past few years my buddies have drifted off from nascar "Nah timmy i'm just not interested in anymore"

I kept going though I hated the changes though

I think this year has done it though. I honestly have only watched 3-4 races in full. I usually just dvr now and fast forward to last 40 or so laps

I just feel out of place watching it

This damn chase format is a joke. It's a ****tier version of the ncaa tournament

That damn caution line is a joke, just end it under caution like the ol days

that damn double file restart was great till teammates started playing games

It's a shame what they have done to it Sort of liek country music. being southern ain't cool. Put gel in your hair and marry a model wife and drink wine

Thats cool

except it's not
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Football is football? They change the definition of a 'completed pass' every other year, varying between one foot in, both feet in, one knee. Pass interference is like pornography: "I'll know it when I see it." The kick-off and extra point change from yard line to line; now there's talk about eliminating the kick-off entirely. There's plenty more examples, but football AIN'T football consistently from year to year. Why else would there be a rules committee?

Ya know, for all my griping about plate races and the Chase formats, I'd still rather watch a Cup race than any other sport, televised or in person. Just this idjit's opinion.
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But rule changes in the NFL are pretty insignificant. Football is still football. And it's still entertaining, unless you're a bitter, angry Jaguars fan. :mad:

Bottom line, people watch sports to be entertained. Football is entertaining. NASCAR, simply put, is not.

I wouldn't give a damn about the Chase if the races were entertaining. They're not. So NASCAR has a new playoff that's designed to create drama in itself and it worked for a year.
 
timmyholton said:
I've been a NASCAR fan for over 35 years.

Rusty Wallace was my all time favorite and I liked guys like Davey Allison, Ricky Rudd, never was a Earnhardt fan but respected him

Had a group of friends and we'd hit up a few races a year (Michigan mostly, chicago land few times, ORP for busch series)

For daytona we'd get a pool going drawing numbers placing money

Every Labor day weekend we'd get together for darlington and cookout, same for coca cola 600(which was a long day with indy)

Past few years my buddies have drifted off from nascar "Nah timmy i'm just not interested in anymore"

I kept going though I hated the changes though

I think this year has done it though. I honestly have only watched 3-4 races in full. I usually just dvr now and fast forward to last 40 or so laps

I just feel out of place watching it

This damn chase format is a joke. It's a ****tier version of the ncaa tournament

That damn caution line is a joke, just end it under caution like the ol days

that damn double file restart was great till teammates started playing games

It's a shame what they have done to it Sort of liek country music. being southern ain't cool. Put gel in your hair and marry a model wife and drink wine

Thats cool

except it's not
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that's the thing, nascar is not for the masses. only a small part of the people are going to be fans, no matter what they do.
 
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