Its the Pits

H

HardScrabble

Guest
Much ado about the crashes, mostly Elliott and Jimmy but others as well. But that is a part of draft dependent racing. And lots of it was jsut as bad before the plates. And not the problem which extends further than the plate tracks but now has spread to every track.

Something is wrong in the pits. Cars are going every which way all too often. Too much contact is being made both in and out of the pit boxes and in out of pit road itself. It is not acceptable to continue having crew members scattered along the road like old newspapers. Something will have to address this issue. And soon before teams are going to another funeral.

You could, of course, freeze the field during cautions and not allow any postiional change due to the efficiency (or lack of) pit work. This would not address green flag stops, where we had problems both at Indy and again yesterday, (though yesterday was hardly even mentioned the potential for disaster was there). Nor IMO is this the best way to go. I can't think of any other racing body which has to go to this length from the bullrings to F1, so I see no reason to take this competitive aspect completely out of the equation. It would not contribute to the racing, but take away from it. And there would be a huge inequity in penalizing a team for managing to avoid the need for a stop, and benefitting ateam which needed major adjustment during a stop.

Would lowering pit road speeds even more help? In some ways, but many of the problems occur on entry into or out the pit stall itself when the cars are nowhere near the pit road speed limit as it is now. Neither the deal with Sadler yesterday nor the deal with Gordon a couple weeks ago have been affected at all by a lower speed limit.

No passing on pit road seems not to have helped. And yesterday was the cause of much of the problem on entering pit road under green flag conditions.

So gotta back up and find the cause. Why? Why are we seeing so many problems on pit road now? What has changed? And if the cause can be identified, how can it be nullified?

I have an idea of the cause, and it is the same root cause for the demise of the gentlemens agreement and the need for the caution rule change. The problem is there are so many variables in the pit process to deal with, that one rule may not fix it all. Indeed no rule may be capable of fixing it.

NASCAR may be have to take off the gloves and get real heavy handed and perhaps somewhat arbitrary to deal with it. Some drivers, teams, and fans would be very upset. They would all scream fixing, conspiracy, manfpulating, favoritism and all the other accusations which fly antime NASCAR makes a call. So be it.

You (a driver) do something stupid, reckless, inconsiderate or plain pig headed on pit road which endangers anyone, you sit a lap or two. End of story, no appeal. It does not matter what that driver thinks of his move, they, both veterans and young 'uns. are demonstrating that the capability of making sound judgements has totally bypassed them. If the competitors have become so wrapped in the cocoon of their world that they can't see outside of it.......too dem bad.

Pay attention, or pay the price.
 
Maybe no crew members over the wall until the car stops in the box.

And, the car doesn't move until all members are back over the wall --- jackman included. The crew chief tells the driver to go.
 
The pit crew over the wall rule would help in some of the situations, but it seems like there are several where the crew was hit by other cars. Maybe if they made the pit boxes a min length, all 4 tires inside the box and also put another box inside each pit that the car would have to be in might help. At least then the cars wouldn't be blocked as much getting in and out of their pits.
 
HS,

After being called ignorant and having the old yellow BS flag thrown for me after posting my opinion about yesterday's on track antics, I figure what the heck, I might just as well see what folks will have to say if I express myself on this issue as well.

Is not a large part of the current problem the driver's limited peripheral vision, caused not only by the use of full face helmets, but also the drivers sitting lower and further back in the cars, the mandated use of either the HANS or Hutchin's restraints, the added head restraints on the sides of the seats, more safety nets on both sides of the driver's head and the current size and shape of the greenhouse of the cars?

Perhaps it is time for another spotter located in a position where he/she has a clear view of the pit road as well as the entrance and exit of the pit box? Make it this persons responsiblity to direct the driver SAFELY into and out of that area?

OR simply use "competition yellows" to allow all the teams the same amount of time to complete repairs/service, freeze the field and restart in the same order they were running before the yellow?

Now I realize that this solution is nowhere near as exciting as the current situation, but it might save one of those people who are working in an already dangerous position either serious injury or worse.

Of course we have to remember that the ancient Romans felt that Gladitorial Games and feeding Christians to the lions were pretty entertaining and exciting past-times too.
In light of this, maybe NASCAR should change its thinking and consider becoming a real "blood sport"?

Just think of the media hype, the new fans, the excitement and marketing possiblities!!
Not to mention the openings created for "new talent" every week.
Sounds like a winning solution to me.

Hey, you listening Bill, Brian and Mike?
 
Old goat,

There are actually drivers in the sport who will try to see how close they can come to pitcrew who are working in the boxes next to theirs in order to intimidate them.

Of course no one would ever admit to behavior of this sort, but I have seen it myself on more than one occasion and know of one jackman who has had rather confrontational conversations with a driver or two who thought it was great sport to "buzz" him during pitstops.

But, as I said, no one would ever admit such things happen in our "dearly beloved" sport of racing, NASCAR style.
 
boB, you make some valid points about the restricted vision making it difficult to see. And, a very valid point about "buzzing" the competition to make them a little nervous.

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe an extra spotter would be of benefit.
 
maybe they should expand the pit road and the pit boxes because you almost always see some pit road wrecks, or some pit crew member getting hit or someone getting blocked in. And if you stall there is little room to push start the car. there is numerous problems on put road space.
 
Bob - I think you may well be onto something with the peripheral vision thing. It goes back to that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Safety has been increased by the new helmets/neck and head restraints, but there very well could be a loss of peripheral vision, and they are going to have to find a way to make up for that.
 
boB...

Antics? Yep there were a few yesterday and I happen to agree that Jr was over his head. Enough so that it would not surprise me he has a conversation with Mr's Helton and Darby sometime this week. Not one any fan will ever hear about unless Jr decides to show his butt and talk about it.

There is little doubt that the driver's restricted field of vision of a part of the problem. Not usre that another spotter would help much, I mean exactly what else does the spotter they have now need to be doing while the car is in the pits?? Doesn't seem likely he has so many things to watch at that point that he couldn't handle it. Maybe he's checking to be sure he was shortchanged at the concession window........

I have found myself on a bit of a rant lately with the teams and the drivers (more particulary the drivers) and the "new" attitude of "make a rule". It just seems they do not want to be accountable for what they do. make a rule they cry, I am incapable of using any judgement myself. Look at it this way, if the restricted vision prevented them from winning a race, they would figure a way to see in about a day and a half. Ya notice they had no problem working out "blocking" mirrors did they?

This issue for me is on the drivers and how much they want to take care of their teams and each other. If they have no motivation to do so, NASCAR can't help them. And I have no patience with them..........
 
HS,

I think there is the possibility the spotter's line of sight might not always allow a clear view and conception of the cars actual position on pit road and its relationship to other cars entering and leaving at the same time. Don't forget that they are actually a pretty fair distance from where the action is taking place; especially at a track like Talladega or Daytona. Another spotter closer to the action with a clearer line of sight might be (notice I say might be) at least a partial solution.

RE: the driver's attitude.

I hear exactly what you're saying and on giving the situation a bit of thought have to say that us old pharts are most certainly to blame.

We have to consider that these kids have been subjected to the "live life in the fast lane, get it all right now no matter what" attitude since the day they were born. We gave them whatever they wanted simply because we did not want our kids to face the same hardships most of our generation lived through.

Now our kids have handed their youngsters even more, for less effort, and we continue the whole viscious circle, passing the mess onto the next generation, the next generation and the next.....well, I guess you can figure out what I mean here.

The whole thing boils down to a complete lack of respect for having to work for whatever one achieves in life.
Why bother to set goals, expend the effort to achieve said goals, when it's possible to take whatever shortcuts you can find, no matter what the consequences?

Why not take whatever advantage you can find? Make it work for you until someone makes a rule against it? What the hell, if you don't do it, someone else will, won't they?

Maybe that tiger of the Whizzer and Tom Clancy has decided he didn't care for being kicked in the ass after all?

Maybe we simply forgot to plan on handling the teeth?
 
We beat on this horse last week and I gave a way to fix this problem. Hardscramble has got the idea,excatly what I said. It would not take away from racin but put racin on track and not the pits. Hold positions durning yellow is great idea and should be imposed. You still would have green flag stops and are much more important than yellow.
 
personally , i think there were less incidents on pit road when they used to come in at full throttle......
.......granted , that is even more dangerous , but i still say they should let 'em come in at full speed under green flag conditions.........
 
How about, no pit road speed limit, no one over the wall until the car is stopped, and do away with the jackman - let them use pneumatic jacks like F1? Also, they could do away with the gas cans/catchcan man and just use a fueling system like most other series' do.
 
Driver accountability.

To me that is the key. You can get into specifics, but until the driver/car/team is held accountable, the motivation of the teams to avoid the problem simple isn't there.

The most frightening thing about the Robby Gordon/ Jeff Green contact int he pits is that niether team was in the wrong by the rules.

Pit road isn't the front stretch. Contact between cars shouldn't be allowed.

Establish a series of "right of way" rules. Maybe car to the right always has "right of way" and car in front always has "right of way." The specific don't really matter. Just establish what it is. Then anytime 2 cars make contact in the pits, determine which one had the "right of way" and hold the other one for 5 laps.

Want to bet that the issue almsot disappears?

---

By the way, "HI". I'm new to the forum.
 
Hi, TonyB. Glad to have you visit us. :)

The thing that upset me about the Sadler/Green problem was that Elliott didn't even slow down when he hit the 43. Just kept on pushing.
 
Originally posted by TexasRaceLady@Oct 2 2003, 04:53 PM
Hi, TonyB. Glad to have you visit us. :)

The thing that upset me about the Sadler/Green problem was that Elliott didn't even slow down when he hit the 43. Just kept on pushing.
Click to expand...
I agree very upsetting.

The days of "gentlemen" racing are over. It has come to the point where NACAR has to hold these gusy accountable because they won't do it themselves.
 
I thought of Texas Race Lady's idea a while back and think it is the answer. Should be easy to enforce since NA$CAR has an inspector in every pit box.
 
One prime factor is that there are alot more cars on the track now. 43 cars is way too many for places like Martinsville, Bristol and Richmond to name a few. I can't remember when the field was increased to 43, but the point is that there used to be fewer cars in the same size pit roads. This allowed for more room for each team. Add to this that attrition is not as high as it used to be. Nowadays it is not uncommon for nearly all the cars to finish the race. Once again more cars on pit lanes that were designed 30 years ago to handle less traffic. My suggestion... cut the field to 35.
 
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