Jeff Gordon black flagged

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Was the Jeff Gordon Ryan newman incident a good call?

It did not seem like a good call to me. Not only have there been alot more agresive wrecks this season, also towards the end of the race ryan newman wrecked ken shrader, which looked alot more aggresive.

Is it just me or has nascar made alot of bad calls this season. Tony and sterling get penalized for going under the yellow, dale jr doesnt and they have been alot more leniant on it since then.

Was the black flag on jeff right? Also is it just me or has nascar made alot of bad calls this season???
 
Two wrongs do not make a right. What Jeff did is what alot of sports figures do. Retaliate. Punishment for such actions are not limited to NASCAR. Happens in nearly every NFL game, NBA game, etc. It is how it is. If you were pushing me around and I decided to punch you that probably would not be the right thing to do.
 
Watch the replay of the race and tell me that what jeff did to ryan was worse then what ryan did to shrader. Jeff was black flagged ryan was not. Also theres been alot of other wrecks then were just as aggresive that got no black flags.
 
NASCAR does seem inconsistent at times with thier calls. In this case, what Gordon did was retaliate, and made it obvious. Gordon called his crew and apologized for losing his temper and getting the black flag.

Others are aggressive and are more subtle.

If NASCAR were to give everyone the black flag for aggressive driving there wouldn't be any racing. Like $h!t, it happens.

NASCAR is aware of aggressive driving and keeps an eye on it, they call the most obvious. In effect, by making the call against Jeff Gordon, they stripped him of an opportunity to finish second in points. But did they ???

It turns out Jeff Gordon screwed himself out of the opportunity to be second in points by losing his temper and retaliating. If there is any responsibility here for the issuance of a penalty, it belongs to Gordon, not NASCAR.

He committed the offense, he ain't got no defense.
 
I also wonder if the fact that the two were so close in WC points and the drivers had been warned about team mates being careful not to cause a problem with point contenders was also in the deal. Maybe they saw it as Jeff taking Ryan out to help himself in the points standings. I didn't see much wrong with the start of the incident, but it did seem like Ryan got squeezed up into the wall a 2nd time and side swiped Jeff afterwards. It seemed like more of a racing deal until Jeff turned into him and spun him.
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Nov 11 2003, 08:17 AM
NASCAR does seem inconsistent at times with thier calls. In this case, what Gordon did was retaliate, and made it obvious. Gordon called his crew and apologized for losing his temper and getting the black flag.

Others are aggressive and are more subtle.

If NASCAR were to give everyone the black flag for aggressive driving there wouldn't be any racing. Like $h!t, it happens.

NASCAR is aware of aggressive driving and keeps an eye on it, they call the most obvious. In effect, by making the call against Jeff Gordon, they stripped him of an opportunity to finish second in points. But did they ???

It turns out Jeff Gordon screwed himself out of the opportunity to be second in points by losing his temper and retaliating. If there is any responsibility here for the issuance of a penalty, it belongs to Gordon, not NASCAR.

He committed the offense, he ain't got no defense.
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I pretty much agree with this statement. I think there is a difference between intentional and aggressive. Gordon's move was intentional (good thing ryan was lucky enough to not hit anything). Newman's move on schrader was just stupid aggressive (and I am a fan of Newmans).

I don't quite agree with the penalty of lossing a lap. I think end of the longest line would be more fair of a penalty. There are a number of other instances where end of longest line vs. held on pit road for a lap should be debated.
 
I really can't blame Jeff for what he did! Ryan acted like a classless driver out there. He ran over Jeff, ran over Kenny, the only thing he didn't hit was the pace car!
 
I didn't really see anything there worth a black-flag,of course I'm biased :lol: :D
Whether a bumping act is intentional or not by the driver though,the results are still usually bad to the bumpee? <_<
 
Originally posted by slick-nick@Nov 11 2003, 10:19 AM
I really can't blame Jeff for what he did! Ryan acted like a classless driver out there. He ran over Jeff, ran over Kenny, the only thing he didn't hit was the pace car!
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;)
 
Well I thought it was appropriate. I mean after all he did purposefully spin him out correct? Jeff Gordon purposefully spinning someone out is no different than Todd Bodine purposefully spinning someone out, both should be penalized and levied the same penalty.

But then again Jeff Gordon is one of only two drivers that I dont like on the entire WC circuit so I may be biased. :)
 
1 YEAR (365 DAYS) smoke free! (10/28/03) woohoo!



Congratulations majestyx,that's quite an accomplishment,keep up the good fight there,it's a very hard habit to break,continued success. :mellow:

I know I'm off topic,excuse Me People :lol: Not the first time it's happened :D
 
Originally posted by Whizzer@Nov 11 2003, 08:17 AM
It turns out Jeff Gordon screwed himself out of the opportunity to be second in points by losing his temper and retaliating. If there is any responsibility here for the issuance of a penalty, it belongs to Gordon, not NASCAR.
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I don't know, I think it was more bad luck that cost Gordon a shot at 2nd in the points. He was able to make up his lap after the penalty. But he was caught a lap down twice when cautions flew after making green flag stops.
 
Originally posted by 17_Fan+Nov 11 2003, 12:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (17_Fan @ Nov 11 2003, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Whizzer@Nov 11 2003, 08:17 AM
It turns out Jeff Gordon screwed himself out of the opportunity to be second in points by losing his temper and retaliating. If there is any responsibility here for the issuance of a penalty, it belongs to Gordon, not NASCAR.
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I don't know, I think it was more bad luck that cost Gordon a shot at 2nd in the points. He was able to make up his lap after the penalty. But he was caught a lap down twice when cautions flew after making green flag stops. [/b][/quote]
Exactly what I was thinking. Gordon, Jr., and some others had bad luck with cautions.
 
I bet if he got a warning, things would have cooled off right then and there...but, then again we don't hear or know about everything going on behind the scenes...still seemed like too much though.
 
Originally posted by Windsor377@Nov 11 2003, 01:55 PM
I bet if he got a warning, things would have cooled off right then and there...but, then again we don't hear or know about everything going on behind the scenes...still seemed like too much though.
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too much as in the black flag?
 
"Newman got in the wall in (Turn) 2 and bounced off the wall and hit us accidently. Then Jeff went down in (Turns) 3 and 4 and Newman was up on the outside and Jeff got under him and Newman body-slammed him," Loomis said.

"So we ran down into Turn 1 and Jeff said, 'That's not how we race' and he spun him, and then we got the penalty."

Asked Gordon's response to the penalty, Loomis said: "Jeff wasn't happy about the penalty, but it was pretty obvious it wasn't no accident."


Robbie Loomis' comments after the race, that's why Gordon was pennalized in my opinion. No different than Harvick's deal at Martinsville last year.
 
Well, Ryan hit Jeff 3 or 4 times before Jeff punted him. IMO They both should have been blackflagged if 1 was. By blackflagging Jeff and not even giving Ryan a warning it let Ryan go and continue the race in this aggressive manor. In light of the prior incidents Ryan was involved in, and the penalty assesed to Jeff when Ryan put Kenny in the wall he should have been black flagged then and lost a lap.

Ryan has a "little" better car control than he did in his ABC year, but not much more.
Yes, he can damn sure make one go fast, (staright ahead) but he got a lot of work to do to really learn how to race with control.
Ryan is a major disaster just waiting for the time and place to happen.
 
Still no comment on ryans hit on kenny shrader, looked to me like that was on purpose.
 
Looks like Ryan diserve the punt fron Gordon. But Gordon could have been more sneaky about it. :lol:
 
Originally posted by majestyx+Nov 11 2003, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (majestyx @ Nov 11 2003, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Windsor377@Nov 11 2003, 01:55 PM
I bet if he got a warning, things would have cooled off right then and there...but, then again we don't hear or know about everything going on behind the scenes...still seemed like too much though.
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too much as in the black flag? [/b][/quote]
Yeah. The both of them were busy trying to lean on each other. Penske straightened out Newman. A similar comment would have worked for Gordon in my opinion. So, no I don't think Black Flag was necessary.
 
Dinoforth3 I can't belive a Earnhardt would make a statement like that. I am by no means bashing Dale. But all of us know he did alot of intentional stuff. Example: Terry Labonte - Bristol
 
Originally posted by Mustang@Nov 11 2003, 06:52 PM
Still no comment on ryans hit on kenny shrader, looked to me like that was on purpose.
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Good point there,agreed.
Larry McReynolds was asked that very question(on FOX site)in an e-mail from a fan,"why was JG penalized for rubbing Ryan Newman,but Ryan wasn't penalized for wrecking Kenny Scrader?"
Sounds like Ryan Newman is one of NASCAR's new faves IMO :D NASCAR needs to be more consistant with Their calls,on the other hand,I guess any major sporting events are subject to some questionable calls/non-calls that leave a lot of fans scratching Their heads,JMO ;)
 
Originally posted by Windsor377+Nov 11 2003, 06:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Windsor377 @ Nov 11 2003, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -majestyx@Nov 11 2003, 02:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Windsor377
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@Nov 11 2003, 01:55 PM
I bet if he got a warning, things would have cooled off right then and there...but, then again we don't hear or know about everything going on behind the scenes...still seemed like too much though.
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too much as in the black flag?
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Yeah. The both of them were busy trying to lean on each other. Penske straightened out Newman. A similar comment would have worked for Gordon in my opinion. So, no I don't think Black Flag was necessary. [/b][/quote]
That's what I thought you were saying. Just wanted to make sure! ;)
 
Ryan likes to lean on people when he races, but doesn't like it when people lean on him. IMO, he drives like an ape (kinda resembles one too). Most drivers feel like if you're going to race a certain way, expect to be raced the same. I can't fault Jeff for what he did. If every driver would have punted Ryan when he was leaning too hard on them...I doubt Ryan would have won eight races this year.
 
Originally posted by 17_Fan@Nov 12 2003, 02:04 PM
Ryan likes to lean on people when he races, but doesn't like it when people lean on him. IMO, he drives like an ape (kinda resembles one too). Most drivers feel like if you're going to race a certain way, expect to be raced the same. I can't fault Jeff for what he did. If every driver would have punted Ryan when he was leaning too hard on them...I doubt Ryan would have won eight races this year.
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Good points 17 fan.

If Ryan's attitude don't change, he might find himself in as much favor of the other drivers as Kurt Busch has.
 
Originally posted by tkj24@Nov 16 2003, 06:46 PM
Guess Ryan got leaned on today.  Way to go Harvick.
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I'm not a big fan of Ryan's by any means...but what was Yap-Yap thinking??? He knew he was loose, he knew he didn't have radio contact with the crew or spotter. Why drive it hard into the turn, making it three wide and take out two cars in the process. Ultimate stupidity only nine laps into the race. One of those cars had a chance to make the top 10 in points and the other had a chance to make 2nd in points? This guy is a punk & drives like one too. I'm convinced he'll never win a Cup championship...attitude is everything & so is brains behind the helmet!
 
Originally posted by tkj24@Nov 11 2003, 10:24 PM
Dinoforth3 I can't belive a Earnhardt would make a statement like that. I am by no means bashing Dale. But all of us know he did alot of intentional stuff. Example: Terry Labonte - Bristol
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What the hell are you talking about, Earnhardt did'nt make that statement :wacko:
 
Originally posted by tkj24@Nov 11 2003, 10:24 PM
Dinoforth3 I can't belive a Earnhardt would make a statement like that. I am by no means bashing Dale. But all of us know he did alot of intentional stuff. Example: Terry Labonte - Bristol
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next time try hittin that little edit button next time
 
Originally posted by 17_Fan+Nov 17 2003, 12:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (17_Fan @ Nov 17 2003, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tkj24@Nov 16 2003, 06:46 PM
Guess Ryan got leaned on today.  Way to go Harvick.
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I'm not a big fan of Ryan's by any means...but what was Yap-Yap thinking??? He knew he was loose, he knew he didn't have radio contact with the crew or spotter. Why drive it hard into the turn, making it three wide and take out two cars in the process. Ultimate stupidity only nine laps into the race. One of those cars had a chance to make the top 10 in points and the other had a chance to make 2nd in points? This guy is a punk & drives like one too. I'm convinced he'll never win a Cup championship...attitude is everything & so is brains behind the helmet! [/b][/quote]
1 Win
12 top 5's
18 top 10's
5th in points
no DNF's in 40 races
99.5% of laps completed.
4.5 million in earnings.

Not bad for a guy with a attitude no brains behind the helmet. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Gollum+Nov 18 2003, 09:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Gollum @ Nov 18 2003, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -17_Fan@Nov 17 2003, 12:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--tkj24
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@Nov 16 2003, 06:46 PM
Guess Ryan got leaned on today.  Way to go Harvick.
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I'm not a big fan of Ryan's by any means...but what was Yap-Yap thinking??? He knew he was loose, he knew he didn't have radio contact with the crew or spotter. Why drive it hard into the turn, making it three wide and take out two cars in the process. Ultimate stupidity only nine laps into the race. One of those cars had a chance to make the top 10 in points and the other had a chance to make 2nd in points? This guy is a punk & drives like one too. I'm convinced he'll never win a Cup championship...attitude is everything & so is brains behind the helmet!
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1 Win
12 top 5's
18 top 10's
5th in points
no DNF's in 40 races
99.5% of laps completed.
4.5 million in earnings.

Not bad for a guy with a attitude no brains behind the helmet. :lol: [/b][/quote]
It will catch up to him.
 
Originally posted by steveluvs3+Nov 18 2003, 08:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (steveluvs3 @ Nov 18 2003, 08:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--tkj24@Nov 11 2003, 10:24 PM
Dinoforth3 I can't belive a Earnhardt would make a statement like that.&nbsp; I am by no means bashing Dale.&nbsp; But all of us know he did alot of intentional stuff.&nbsp; Example:&nbsp; Terry Labonte - Bristol
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next time try hittin that little edit button next time [/b][/quote]
:( EXCUSE ME :(
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Nov 19 2003, 05:36 PM
Maybe- Maybe not. It remains to be seen.
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It did catch up with him in 2002. With some of his antics this season, you have to sit and wonder if he learned anything from 2002? He must have been 'just blowing smoke' up the media's rear when he said that he did learn from his past mistakes.
 
Yep he had a bad year in 2002. I say he will be just fine. Dont everybosd like Harvick. Dont everyone like Kenseth. Dont everyone like Jarrett and so on. That is what makes this sport great. And your opinion is no more important than mine. And neither mount to much. :lol:
 
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