Kyle Busch says Toyota teams are “idiots” by not working close together

I tend to agree, Toyotas lack of a championship may be proof ....................................... Kudos to Kyle for having the stones to say so
 
I dont see how you would force it?

The Stewart-Hass and Hendrick collaboration was seemless. There cant be no egos or a number 1 company when you work together.
 
Reck said:
I dont see how you would force it?

The Stewart-Hass and Hendrick collaboration was seemless. There cant be no egos or a number 1 company when you work together.
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I've read somewhere else on the forums that SHR is basically a Hendrick's satellite team, how true is that?
 
SpeedPagan said:
I've read somewhere else on the forums that SHR is basically a Hendrick's satellite team, how true is that?
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Umm I doubt that very much. They're just that close.

I dont think Stewart nor Hass would think of themselves as lackies for Hendrick.

Didn't Tony decide to make his own team for the freedom of it?
 
SpeedPagan said:
I've read somewhere else on the forums that SHR is basically a Hendrick's satellite team, how true is that?
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they kinda are, the main reason is SHR gets its chassis and engines from HMS. I am pretty sure SHR hangs its own bodies, these days with the templates the bodies of the car don't make much different. SHR does have access to the best wind tunnel in the business. I would assume their cars might even have a slight aero edge because of that. but then again I don't think there is much that can be done to tweak the aero anymore.

The biggest obstacle IMO for a gibbs/MWR close relationship is MWR I think and I am not sure builds their own chassis. Gibbs builds their own. they both use TRD motors in the cup series so that is at least the same. This does matter because they do little things different. Its not so simple as just put this part in the car and its fast, HMS and SHR work so well together because the cars are the same pretty much. I also feel hendrick has what I call an abundance mentality, meaning lets give everyone we work with the best info out there. Then let the driver and team with the best skills win, which might not be them, kinda weird I know, but there is power in abundance mentality I think. It seems to be working. It allows HMS to have more money to spend on chassis design and engine design. gibbs is more secretive about things. We have seen RCR do better once they took on the furniture row car. again that car is basically an RCR car. MWR might consider buying cars from gibbs too. but then again they probably feel they have significant investments in what they already have. spingate at richmond really really hurt MWR, they were really a rising star before that. I hope they get the ship righted and end up back in victory lane.
 
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I am very proud of Kyle Busch and his leadership in this context. However, this is a very complicated situation. The media doesn't correctly set the context because they still don't understand the unique relationship TRD has with its teams and how it got there. TRD is the primary builder for Toyota--just the way Hendrick is for Chevy. The difference is that Toyota funds TRD while Chevy writes the check to Hendrick, This was the scenario that Jack Roush feared....that Toyota would dump cash into NASCAR and destroy the sport. Didn't happen. TRD has to answer to a a board for funding. The pocket book has never been wide open....but I digress. Toyota came into the sport with MWR (and Red Bull) in 2007 and struggled huge. At that time Chevy was refusing overtures from JGR to become the favored son--that was reserved for Hendrick. Unhappy, Coach looked around, and found TRD. TRD would jump at the chance for JGR to become the favored son of Toyota. The deal was sealed. JGR continued to do their own thing until 2011 when Cronquist build Toyotas started detonating. In Fontana of 2011, Coach reached out to TRD for help. TRD was happy to oblige, but the problem was there were many Cronquist loyalists (Mr. Kyle Busch among them) who bristled at the idea of going outside of JGR. By 2012, the relationship between TRD and JGR had grown to the point where it made sense to combine resources under the TRD banner. It was done, but there were and still are loyalties to Cronquist and the JGR exclusive way of doing things. Ironically, Cronquist has remained with JGR and works with TRD. Even though, JGR joined the TRD umbrella, they remained elusive in their approach--again, supported by Kyle Busch. The idea had always been...."What the hell could MWR give us?" Understandable. It became apparent last year that data needed to be shared. Now, Kyle Busch is insistent. The point I am making is although I agree with him, his current stance is not consistent with his history.
 
With so many teams working together, it would make sense for JGR to work with MWR. But like someone else said, maybe they can't offer much help as it is.
 
JGR only wanted to work with MWR when MWR was outrunning them. Now that JGR is outrunning MWR they don't want to work together. At least that's the way it seems to me.
 
Revman said:
I am very proud of Kyle Busch and his leadership in this context. However, this is a very complicated situation. The media doesn't correctly set the context because they still don't understand the unique relationship TRD has with its teams and how it got there. TRD is the primary builder for Toyota--just the way Hendrick is for Chevy. The difference is that Toyota funds TRD while Chevy writes the check to Hendrick, This was the scenario that Jack Roush feared....that Toyota would dump cash into NASCAR and destroy the sport. Didn't happen. TRD has to answer to a a board for funding. The pocket book has never been wide open....but I digress. Toyota came into the sport with MWR (and Red Bull) in 2007 and struggled huge. At that time Chevy was refusing overtures from JGR to become the favored son--that was reserved for Hendrick. Unhappy, Coach looked around, and found TRD. TRD would jump at the chance for JGR to become the favored son of Toyota. The deal was sealed. JGR continued to do their own thing until 2011 when Cronquist build Toyotas started detonating. In Fontana of 2011, Coach reached out to TRD for help. TRD was happy to oblige, but the problem was there were many Cronquist loyalists (Mr. Kyle Busch among them) who bristled at the idea of going outside of JGR. By 2012, the relationship between TRD and JGR had grown to the point where it made sense to combine resources under the TRD banner. It was done, but there were and still are loyalties to Cronquist and the JGR exclusive way of doing things. Ironically, Cronquist has remained with JGR and works with TRD. Even though, JGR joined the TRD umbrella, they remained elusive in their approach--again, supported by Kyle Busch. The idea had always been...."What the hell could MWR give us?" Understandable. It became apparent last year that data needed to be shared. Now, Kyle Busch is insistent. The point I am making is although I agree with him, his current stance is not consistent with his history.
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Your only touching on the engine aspect of things. there is way more to it than that. gibbs and cronquist still do the nationwide and truck engines. The big thing help is needed on is chassis setups and development with that.
 
This is strictly supposition on my part and it could all be a fantasy in my mind. Anyway, I think Hass asked Rick for help
with his team. With GM's blessing, I think they made the offer to Stewart. Tony has shown he had a good background for business.
For Hass, he gets a new management team for his racing business and he only gives away half of his team say 2 million. Tony still gets his drivers pay and 50% of the profits less anything he invested. Rick helps his buddy, gets Tony back in a chevy and has 2 race cars and a test car on the track. Plus he makes a ton of money selling engines and chassis. Hass now makes more money with 1/2 a team than he did onwning it all and having thoseWIN WIN
 
With only two wins all last year, something is definitely amiss in the Toyota camp. I still don't think MWR has fully recovered from Spingate, so I'm not sure how much they could really help JGR right now. Seems like JGR could lend some assistance going the other way, however. Hopefully they'll all get it figured out.
 
Figure it out. I want to see all the manufacturers up front, it's always nice to see competitive racing up and down the field.
 
Marcingak said:
JGR only wanted to work with MWR when MWR was outrunning them. Now that JGR is outrunning MWR they don't want to work together. At least that's the way it seems to me.
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MWR outran JGR said no one ever.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
Your only touching on the engine aspect of things. there is way more to it than that. gibbs and cronquist still do the nationwide and truck engines. The big thing help is needed on is chassis setups and development with that.
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Indeed, but the thinking is the same. Kyle Busch has never wanted to lose a competitive advantage in the name of teamwork....until now apparently.
 
The other issue here is TRD's role in the collaboration. David Wilson has talked about the interaction amongst the teams being organic--not forced. I agree because if JGR feels that MWR is siphoning off of them without anything in return, they will bolt. Remember they came to Toyota for exclusivity that they couldn't get from Chevy. The reality is that MWR was raising an eyebrow at JGR until NAPA bolted. It
 
Another thing on this topic.....When we talk about working together, what are we talking about? JGR builds chassis for MWR? Build together? Share sim software? The Hendrick-SHR "alliance." All of that requires a huge paradigm shift in addition to resources and re-organization. You don't just say, "Hey, let's hang."
 
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To be clear.....All of Toyota's eggs are in Kyle Busch's basket. He is the face of the company. There was separation early between the teams in large part because Kyle wanted it to be so. The evolution between now and then has everything to do with the fact that KBM exists because of Toyota. Kyle has accepted his role as Toyota's guy, and is now trying to lead and change the culture of the way TRD supports teams. I......******.....applaud.....the.......hell.....out......of......that!!!!!!!
 
the other thing about those 2 wins last year. the first was at california and jimmie johnson blew a tire very late in the going after dominating the race. I think harvick was also good in that race. basically it was kinda a luck win on the part of the 18, they did not dominate that race at all. the other race was denny at talledega. thats it own animal and frankly a front row motorsports car probably had just as good a chance to win that race. so even the 2 wins they had were not won in the kinda fashion a driver or team would like.
 
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If kybu is the face of Toyota then they need to see a plastic surgeon quick.
 
Revman said:
The other issue here is TRD's role in the collaboration. David Wilson has talked about the interaction amongst the teams being organic--not forced. I agree because if JGR feels that MWR is siphoning off of them without anything in return, they will bolt. Remember they came to Toyota for exclusivity that they couldn't get from Chevy. The reality is that MWR was raising an eyebrow at JGR until NAPA bolted. It
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I was under the impression that JGR bolted as you say from General Motors because they were so low on the list of what help they could get running GM cars.
 
MWR reacts to Kyle Busch's 'idiots' statement

"No doubt, more data points would be potentially more helpful," MWR co-owner Rob Kauffman said. "That's something that if we can work with our fellow Toyota teams to collaborate in that regard, we'd certainly like to do that. It's really a three-legged stool between MWR, JGR and Toyota TRD as they call themselves. That's kind of how we're organized amongst ourselves as we look at all of those three points and what can you do to raise the level of those three together."

Michael Waltrip agreed with Kauffman that more could be done between the two teams.

"Could we collaborate on more? Yes, and I think that's ultimately the goal," Waltrip said. "I think everyone sees the success that organizations have by working together." 



But Waltrip pointed out that the super-team approach isn't the only way to reach success in Sprint Cup.

 "Well, then you look at Roger's (Penske) two cars and they do pretty good and there's only two of them," Waltrip said. "We feel like that there's going to be some advantages by collaborating with Gibbs more and we continue to work toward that."


Of course Bowyer, in his own tongue-in-cheek way, had a suggestion for better cooperation between the teams.



"If we could get Kyle to work better with us, I think it would be beneficial for sure," Bowyer said with a laugh.

from here
 
FLRacingFan said:
JGR was probably the fastest team period in '13. Reliability was a bit of an issue until early June but they were fast as hell the whole season.
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Maybe it was 2012, then. I definitely remember MWR outrunning JGR for a while.
 
Marcingak said:
Maybe it was 2012, then. I definitely remember MWR outrunning JGR for a while.
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In 2012, Gibbs cars won 7 races. 3 for Waltrip ... their biggest year by far.

I think MWR outran Gibbs for approximately 3/4 of an hour in 2011. Naturally, I could be wrong.
 
Kyle Busch says Toyota teams are “idiots” by not working close together

That is the pot calling the kettle black. I don't think there is a driver in the field that is more selfish, childish and a poorer sportsman than Kyle Busch. And if you think Edwards is all of a sudden going to work like a teammate because he is hanging with Kyle and Denny, not to mention Kenseth, I got some swampland in Florida for sale. ridiculous. That bunch is the biggest bunch of "I am's" in the garage. Shut your mouth, get your whiny butt in the car and drive the thing. You haven't won spit in cup, don't own a car or the team and your average rank in cup is 10.5
 
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StandOnIt said:
Kyle Busch says Toyota teams are “idiots” by not working close together

That is the pot calling the kettle black. I don't think there is a driver in the field that is more selfish, childish and a poorer sportsman than Kyle Busch. And if you think Edwards is all of a sudden going to work like a teammate because he is hanging with Kyle and Denny, not to mention Kenseth, I got some swampland in Florida for sale. ridiculous. That bunch is the biggest bunch of "I am's" in the garage. Shut your mouth, get your whiny butt in the car and drive the thing. You haven't won spit in cup, don't own a car or the team and your average finish in cup is 10.5
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Did you read the article? It's abit misleading as he says "we"re idiots." He included himself in there as well.
 
StandOnIt said:
Kyle Busch says Toyota teams are “idiots” by not working close together

That is the pot calling the kettle black. I don't think there is a driver in the field that is more selfish, childish and a poorer sportsman than Kyle Busch. And if you think Edwards is all of a sudden going to work like a teammate because he is hanging with Kyle and Denny, not to mention Kenseth, I got some swampland in Florida for sale. ridiculous. That bunch is the biggest bunch of "I am's" in the garage. Shut your mouth, get your whiny butt in the car and drive the thing. You haven't won spit in cup, don't own a car or the team and your average rank in cup is 10.5
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Here's the thing.....From a Toyota fan's (of which you are not) perspective, Kyle is completely right regardless of his past position, and has the balls to say it the way he wants to. That's why guys like me love him, and guys like you hate him. Hate away....guys like me don't care.
 
Team Penske said:

I was under the impression that JGR bolted as you say from General Motors because they were so low on the list of what help they could get running GM cars.
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Uh, yeah. I think that's what I posted my man!
 
StandOnIt said:
he called everybody idiots, don't know about you, but if I worked in either organization...
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You'd be happy he was saying what he was saying because Kyle Busch is badass.
 
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