Nascar fan support

S

smack500

Guest
I talk to alot of people about nascar, today again I herd someone else say they are sick of the way nascar has been run and dont watch the sport anymore. I have to say this is about the 8th or 9th person I have talked to, in the last couple months that said they have stoped watching the sport. I noticed most of them were in the 30-45 age range, note I said most not all.

Has anyone else noticed this??
 
It does seem to be a 'man on the street' movement among some fans in that age bracket.

Being in that group I can see some validity with it.

Nascar has changed and I am not so certain it has changed for the better. One reason seems to be the constant revenue orientation that Nascar has taken recently. Along with a growing chorus of voices that whisper things like 'rigged' and 'fixed'.

Let me be open on my feelings on this. These Internet message boards are a little misleading as to what a lot of everyday tv and race-going fans feel. The 'silent' majority is a little sick of Nascar and the TV networks blatant bias and apparent favoritism. While on HERE you face ridicule and being labled a 'conspiracy theorist' for holding certain views, in the stands and in the waffle houses the opinion is a little different. Sure, it's great to see a sea of red in the stands---but it's not so great when you read a list of Nascar's most influential people and see names like Earnhardt Jr. Teresa Earnhardt, Richard Childress,etc, etc. It's not so great when everyone with their own eyes can see something.....and interpret it 50 different ways due to their own bias.

Now as soon as this is posted and read some will come along towing the company line: 'they do as good as they can, it is a tough job, blah damn blah blah....'

But thats BS. It isn't hard to write and distribute a concrete set of rules and hire officials to check and enforce those rules. Every sport on earth can do it...why can't Nascar? BELOW a yellow line is BELOW it. Period. Simple. Not racing back to the caution. Simple. If it is your favorite or mine! Third graders could do it. The problem----and in my opinion a source of irritation among a lot of fans-----lies with 'fluid' rules which seem to smack of favoritism.

Thats the main thing I hear everyday. Some secondary issues are cookie cutter tracks, the abandonment of the traditional fan base, the ever increasing cost of attending a race.

But reason number one is a lot of fans simply doubt the integrity of the sanctioning body. Hard to believe favoritism doesnt exist...when a thousand examples of it can be seen or pointed too. And don't be fooled: it's pure cowardice to pretend the problem cant be identified and corrected. It can be and should be.....but Joe Average doubts it ever will be.

Whew. Thats my opinion anyhow. ;)
 
Nope...........haven't noticed it with real life people I know. I have, however seen a pretty good group of online people say it. I have no idea if they are truly following up on their threats to quit...........just their online promise. But, I have noticed that a few of those "quitters" have commented on events that have taken place this year (so I have some doubts :) ).

Actually, I have a possible answer for your new phenomenon. There has been a huge push by NASCAR and fans to get this sport out in the mainstream for the last 5 or 6 years. That push has been rather successful. However, as with any rapid growth in a sport (or business, for that matter), there is almost always a correction a little later on. Many of those people you are speaking about possibly are the types that jump on the latest "fad" or "in thing"..........follow it with great enthusiasm for a while, then bore with it and drop it.

I think we had this same conversation a couple years ago. There will be a weeding out, so to speak, and a true number of fans will be found...........that fan base will be larger than it was before the push, but not as large as the peak. The "quitters" most likely are not real fans and probably never were.......just the "fad' chasers.

I wouldn't be too worried about it. :)
 
Actually most of the fans Im talking about, have been fans for a long time. The guy I talked to today has been going to races for the last 23 years. He told me this newest change of sponser and points system was it for him. He said he had been getting 8 tickets to each richmond race for those last 23 years aslwell. He went on to say that this will give him more time to fish and more money to save for his retirement.

All I asked was if he was a nascar fan, he blabed on about it for half an hour sounded verry bitter towards nascar.
 
Good points Wrangler...but I cant in honesty agree. :)

Lets assume the fans that remain are not the kind of fans that spend money on the lifeblood of Nascar endorsed products or drivers? They use other than Nextel, they like John Andretti, they drink Old Milwaukee...what happens then? Just something to think about, right?

The fact is: Nascar could not have the above scenario happen and survive without serious re-structuring. It would not be financially viable. Thus...a vested interest MUST exist. To deny that is to deny the capitalistic way of doing buisness.

It isnt going to be fad chasers that leave...I am afraid it might be the fad chasers that STAY.
 
Then NASCAR is digging it's own grave..........I'm not ready to bail yet. Are you?

That's my opinion I posted...........I've been watching for over 23 years. There is always something that has fans mad.........but in reality, that is part of what makes those same fans stick with it.

Good grief.......the world fell apart when they dumped North Wilkesboro. The sport was never going to recover..........everyone was going to stop going. Blah, blah, blah....................same story, different age.
 
To be honest, you are right: I am not personally going to bail. Not yet. I have faith in the concept of the sport in it's purest form---men strapped into machines like modern day chariot racers! The essence of the sport is sound.

The sanctioning body is a different story. Yeah, it is easy to critisize, maybe----but then it isnt like anyalyzing sheep-cloning 101. It's clear for the CASUAL fan to see some shortcomings and baffling to the long time fans like me and you as to why those shortcomings arent addressed.
 
I think that one reason some of the older fans are getting out is because the drivers that they watched and enjoyed have gotten out. Petty , Waltrip ,Elliot and Eanhardt. Only a few are left. And they may not like this new breed of young guns. But that is only an opinion and milage may vary. :D
 
Wanna bet they will be addressed? :) Love em or hate em, the Frances know their sport and their market. :D
 
IMO NASCAR is a business and to survive in this world you have to take care of business or you won't survive, if the rumors come true there will alot of pissed southerners cause they are talking about taking away rockingham,darlington,watkins glen races dates and giving them to maybe texas,phoenix,and vegas until the new tracks in seattle and nyc are ready, all I got to say is please don't another 1.5 mile track, why don't they race at the texas world speedway? Has anybody seen this track? It has a road course and 1.5 and a 2.0 high bank track
 
I'm not a happy camper. I find myself wandering off to do other things in the middle of the race and just coming back to watch the last 15 or 20 minutes. If I miss anything, I can always tune in to INC on Monday nights. :D
 
I hope you are right,Wrangler. I admire your optimism,old buddy. :cheers:

I just pray they know their true target demographic. I am pretty certain they don't but hopefully I am wrong.
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Mar 29 2004, 07:56 PM
I think that one reason some of the older fans are getting out is because the drivers that they watched and enjoyed have gotten out. Petty , Waltrip ,Elliot and Eanhardt. Only a few are left. And they may not like this new breed of young guns. But that is only an opinion and milage may vary. :D
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That's true Gollum.........many are getting tired of it because they can't find a new driver to replace their long time favorite. That's shame but that happens in any sport that the person you cheer leaves for various reasons. Maybe that's why I quit watching football years ago...........no more Roger Staubuck to watch...........Terry Bradshaw left..........and Broadway Joe. But the team watchers stuck. I found a new driver to replace mine. And in the process, I found a few others to watch too! Some are more adaptable than others I guess. :)
 
Im 22 and Ive been watching Nascar (well really racing in general) since I was like 10 when my grandfather got me into it.

The first type of racing I ever watched were those off-road truck stadium races that they showed Friday nights on ESPN. Since then Ive been a Robby Gordon fan, since he raced in that series. Ive pretty much followed his career to every type of racing he's done. I watched Nascar off and on throughout this time until 1997 when Robby was in his rookie year. Since 1997 I have watched Nascar regularly. And since 1997, although the exposure is better, the racing has improved, and the level of competition is better, the "front office" of Nascar has really headed downhill. As a fan Im not happy at all at how Nascar as a whole is run, and if Robby were to leave Nascar, I would probably stop watching also for the most part. I wouldnt have said that 5 years ago, but the way things are run now it just really turns me off of it.
 
I quit watching the NBA when Bird left.
I am one of the few in favor of dropping Darlington and the Rock. Darl. was not built to race at the speeds of today. I think one race there a year is enough. If a track has empty seats, something is wrong and needs to be fixed. If 150,000 shows up in the middle of nowhere, they should have a race. Nascar has to go where the fans are. This is a huge money making machine, and that is what it all about.
I know more people that have started watching races since the FOX and NBC deal took place than have quit. I haven't heard anybody come to me and say"That's it, I watched my last Nascar race Sun." Nascar is growing weather we like the way it is going or not.
 
Wow........I was beginning to think I was alone!! :D

Thanks, Tab!! :cheers:
 
It may keep growing....but the grass roots on HERE seems to indicate a lot of frustration. It will rise, peak and eventually fall. The Roman Empire rose pretty good for a while there.

I frankly think the sport has already peaked......next comes the decline, sadly.
 
Now, I'm going to say something really serious here 97.

We do have relatively new fans here........some started the NASCAR thing in the last few years and I'm sure they love it as much as we did when we started. They are us some 15 or 20 years ago. Now, think clearly and honestly. Would you be enthusiastic about a sport where the "old timers" wanted things to go on forever the way they have "always been"? Basically, many of us "old timers" are telling the "newbies" that they are ruining the sport.........and that, my friend, is very good way to guarantee its decline.

I'm not picking on you personally...........but, I really do think us old time NASCAR fans do more to run off the new fans than NASCAR could ever do.
 
Here is a good question: If you think Nascar has already peaked, then what year did you feel it had peaked?
 
I would say about '01 or '02. And by 'peaked' I mean fans still had a certain level of confidence in the sanctioning body. Seems like looking back on it, I for one certainly had a little more anyway.

It may seem convuluted to imply the sport 'peaked' before the network contract---but as far as being taken seriously I feel that is exactly the case. In fact, the TV contract will only quicken the rate of decline ,IMO.

But you bring up a very good point Wrangler and it's ironic that Robby G Fan posted in this thread and Smack started it.

See, these guys are actually the future fan base that Nascar is counting on-----and I will be honest in saying some of these young guys impress me . I have chatted with Smack a few times and the kid has a true passion for the sport. And read some of the posts by RG or Slick-Nick or Lappy or some of these other young folks and you have to be impressed.

But you will see posts from THEM expressing a degree of cynisism and disappointment. And I swear to God---that was lacking back when you and I were young fans hungry for any race related info or news or publications we could get in the days before Nascar was 'cool'.

Something has changed or shifted in the credibility level of the sport, I think. Not 5 minutes ago, I heard 'no penalty whatsoever' regarding the intentional spin, for instance. Such as that---as one of the younger fans pointed out in a different thread----is where the biggest problem lies. One of credibility.

I dont blame the new fans at all, I dont blame the drivers or sponsors or teams. I think we have every ingredient to make this a new golden era of Nascar except one:

The sanctioning body is biased and prejudicial in enforcing the interpretaion of the rules. Old fans can see it but more importantly so can the newer fans. That is a bad thing.

You(wrangler) and I always 'disagree' civily and I respect your opinions and consider your POV before I respond .But In no way do I feel the older, longer fans are to blame for the lack of confidence that is being expressed by some nor do I think the younger fans would really agree with you.

The blame lies squarely on the guys running the show. In terms of quality and reputation , history might reflect the late 90's or early in this century as the last years of the credible Nascar.

TV ratings are dropping, fans both young and old are disgruntled and what we have now is the possum swelling in July sunshine on the side of the road after being hit by a Lincoln:getting bigger----but still on its way to the after life.

Only one way to fix this as unpalatable as it is for many: Make the sea of red a sea of many colors by eliminating the apparent bias and the problem is solved. Otherwise in x years only the Earnhardt faithful will be left to enjoy this sport----the rest of us will have already left.
 
I have been watching Nascar for almost 20 years and have never thought that, like any other sport, it's perfect. Of course mistakes are made and there's always been a few drivers who seem to be " teacher's pets". However, times have certainly changed and if it is indeed Nascar's wish to grow into a larger demographic then to me it's simple - Make sensible rules and ENFORCE them. As was posted earlier, going below the line is just that - the reason why makes no difference. I have no problem with change but some of the rules nascar changes really make no sense and they offer no reasonable explanation. The biggest one for me is changing the point system - I believe I said way back in another post that a team could win over 20 races and still not win the Cup. So how is winning races being rewarded?
 
Originally posted by Patrick9999@Mar 30 2004, 07:30 AM
I have been watching Nascar for almost 20 years and have never thought that, like any other sport, it's perfect. Of course mistakes are made and there's always been a few drivers who seem to be " teacher's pets". However, times have certainly changed and if it is indeed Nascar's wish to grow into a larger demographic then to me it's simple - Make sensible rules and ENFORCE them. As was posted earlier, going below the line is just that - the reason why makes no difference. I have no problem with change but some of the rules nascar changes really make no sense and they offer no reasonable explanation. The biggest one for me is changing the point system - I believe I said way back in another post that a team could win over 20 races and still not win the Cup. So how is winning races being rewarded?
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You did make that remark and I agreed with it then and agree with it now. After reading over this whole thread, I see I came across a little cynically :p . But in my gut-level honest opinion I am to the point where I view almost EVERYTHING the sanctioning body does as suspicious. I think they had an ulterior motive for changing the points system and think that could be argued pretty convincingly.
 
Good thread, really enjoyed both DE & 97's POV,
I guess I'm in the middle.
I'm a pretty old fart, in the 50's and 60's we went to races 5 nights a week every week. I raced myself in the 70's and 80's.
Absolutly loved it when ESPN started covering the NASCAR races, now I could watch them rather than just listen on the radio. But time moves on and I'll always be thankful for ESPN I do not wish them back. As much as I bit** about the TV guys, the coverage is superior. I've watched some of my old tapes (at the time wishing ESPN was still covering the sport) and realized how much better the coverage is now. How many more camaras are being used each week.
I feel NASCARs greed of trying to suck as much money out of the sport is one of the big problems. Most all of the "Official NASCAR".........(fill in the blank) would be sponsering cars and teams, but why should they? They send their money to Daytona and get exclusive advertising rights. So in my opinion NASCAR is competing against the teams needed to make the racing possible. Why not make sponsers support teams #1 then if they want to be the "Official NASCAR" whatever, the pay ?? Additional 10% of sponser dollars to Daytona to become the "Offical NASCAR"... Oil or whatever BUT they must sponser teams or no chance to be there. JMO

I'm disenchanted with NASCAR, not the racing or the sport, but NASCAR. I could miss a race and not get all in a tizzy over it, a few years ago that wouldn't have been true. It was a joke in my family that anything that required my attendance, ie marriages,births, deaths etc. etc. either took place in the off season, or on Wedsdays.

It's not because my favorite drivers have retired, because I really like most of the new young guns and think as far as competitors are concerned the support is very healthy.

Oh well enough rambling, JMHO
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In the nearly 45 years as a participant and spectator of NASCAR, the changes I've noted, have been for the most part , beneficial to the sport. The money end of things and so-called greed are by-products of anything driven by sponsorship monies. NASCAR is a business. A very big business.

I look at the way NASCAR does things as a business, and having had a small amount of experience in both owning and operating small and large operations, feel NASCAR is doing the right thing. Expanding into new markets was hailed and encouraged by Junior Johnson and Richard Childress years ago and today, all directly involved want and approve further expansion by NASCAR. Many fans are the exception yet even they can't seem to explain why. The history angle is out since in business you can't make money with history if the historical site has empty seats.

Credibility problem within NASCAR ???????
The organization is more focused and fair than at any other time in thier history. In modern day NASCAR I do not see the flagrant favoritism of the past. Things are changing, for the better.

Like Eagle1, there was a time when I could miss a race and not get in a lather but that was not always the case. The television coverage is better although there are numerous complaints. I know enjoy racing more today, knowing the inspections and tear downs are open and fair.
Knowing the assessed penalties are more even-handed, in turn making the decisions by NASCAR, easier to accept. There are still calls that appear to show favortism, but no where near as many as there used to be in the "good ole days", and that itself is an improvement with more to come.

I do not see NASCAR going away or losing the fan base, at least not in the near future. If NASCAR has any problem, it will face competition from a Bruton Smith or someone else starting another series.

One major problem within NASCAR is, NASCAR must get the message to establish a set of rules with as few gray areas as possible and then cover those grey areas with instant replay or some other method to make a fair ruling. No more of the EIRI rules. Those are things of the past and create doubts of credibility.
 
There ya are Whizz! I was wondering when you would show up. :cheers:

I disagree on a couple of points----but then you and I have done the old 'sport vs. business' dance before, no need to rehash that old dog again.

This has been a pretty good thread . :cheers:
 
I can understand why people are getting fed up with Nascar. My Husband and I aren't renewing our Sept. tickets for Dover.
 
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