NASCAR planning horsepower reduction for 2015

OHC would be way more expensive for teams so that is not going to happen. Bad idea to reduce power. I dont like it. Take away the grip, aero, or anything else but dont take away power. This is what seperates the men from the boys(and girls) and dumbing down the sport even more. This is supposed to be racing and not riding around flat footing it. This is why I despise restrictor plate tracks so much.
 
Every year the teams make more power, tweaking the equipment . The tracks have remained the same , making the speeds ever more dangerous to drivers and fans . Nothing wrong with dialing back the horsepower to what it was a couple of years back . It would make the cars handle better.
 
ElliottFan said:
OHC would be way more expensive for teams so that is not going to happen. Bad idea to reduce power. I dont like it. Take away the grip, aero, or anything else but dont take away power. This is what seperates the men from the boys(and girls) and dumbing down the sport even more. This is supposed to be racing and not riding around flat footing it. This is why I despise restrictor plate tracks so much.
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Horsepower has increased substsntially over the past decade. It's time to reign it in a bit. We obviously don't need cars hitting 210 getting into the turns.
 
Maybe all the track records we are seeing set this year is making NASCAR brass nervous. I agree with you Matt.
 
Right now Sprint Cup cars are 820-850hp right? So basically we'll be seeing Nationwide type racing with the reduced horsepower, and then Nationwide cars will probably be toned down to Late Models level.

Today's V6's has an amazing horsepower capacity, it was demonstrated in the late 70's and throughout the 80's in F1- 1400-1500hp with twin turbo setup for qualifying and 650-700hp during races. Also Audi with the 5 cylinder rally racing Quattro S1 was an amazing machine with ~600hp in the 80's.

A lighter engine that can put out nearly the same amount of power a common V8 can will make for more responsive race cars. For years I've been expecting NASCAR to go V6, they tried it once and it didn't pan out too well but technology is much better for smaller engines now.
 
With the right gear, a 200 HP engine will run 250 MPH.

I say give the teams a max on CID and let them have at it.
 
I like NASCAR's bare bones approach to racing. No traction control, no ABS, no AWD, no turbos. Just HP and a driver. As long as they dont start adding in stuff like this I think it will be ok. I would like racing in rain at road courses.... 8)
 
FenderBumper said:
I agree for NW, but plenty of manufacturers make OHC V8's. Maybe 6 cylinder OHC for cup super speedways and toss the plate.
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I know Busch North ran V-6's for years then in order to "contain" costs they went to the 350 format. The thinking being smaller Busch teams could recycle parts and pieces from cup motors.
I'm not sure if V-6's were across the board in the Busch series or just the North. Nate Chaveton was the engine builder for the series here.

Funny how every time Nascar steps up to save teams money it costs them more,,:rolleyes:
 
Cut the cams’ lift and duration down. Couple that with reduced valve size and the horsepower will drop. Easy to write, easy to police.

Get rid of the aero.
 
Bobw said:
I know Busch North ran V-6's for years then in order to "contain" costs they went to the 350 format. The thinking being smaller Busch teams could recycle parts and pieces from cup motors.
I'm not sure if V-6's were across the board in the Busch series or just the North. Nate Chaveton was the engine builder for the series here.

Funny how every time Nascar steps up to save teams money it costs them more,,:rolleyes:
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Do you know if the V6's were OHC?
 
How they going to take this HP away? Restrictor plate, tapered spacer? I don't want to see the garbage 36 times a year. Teams have spent millions and millions of dollars developing the engine they race today, especially getting that 100 HP NASCAR wants back. I say, leave it alone. Outside of the teams using Triad motors, every team uses a engine from a big engine builder. (Hendrick,Childress, TRD and Yates/Roush) I don't see any cost cutting being accomplished. It'll actually cause more cost because they will spend much more R&D to get that 100 hp back. I don't want to see them able to flat foot it all around the track, it doesn't make for good racing or take a whole lot of driving skill.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
How they going to take this HP away? Restrictor plate, tapered spacer? I don't want to see the garbage 36 times a year. Teams have spent millions and millions of dollars developing the engine they race today, especially getting that 100 HP NASCAR wants back. I say, leave it alone. Outside of the teams using Triad motors, every team uses a engine from a big engine builder. (Hendrick,Childress, TRD and Yates/Roush) I don't see any cost cutting being accomplished. It'll actually cause more cost because they will spend much more R&D to get that 100 hp back. I don't want to see them able to flat foot it all around the track, it doesn't make for good racing or take a whole lot of driving skill.
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Good point on the flat foot thing, but IF nascar also takes away the aero do-dads, they will have to slow in the corners. The speeds will be lower, but we'll be back to mechanical grip and softer tires that wear. That could be good for the racing.
 
FenderBumper said:
Good point on the flat foot thing, but IF nascar also takes away the aero do-dads, they will have to slow in the corners. The speeds will be lower, but we'll be back to mechanical grip and softer tires that wear. That could be good for the racing.
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That would be weird to see them have to lift in the corners @Talladega.

But cool at same time.

Wonder if they could get rid of the plate...
 
DanicaFreak said:
That would be weird to see them have to lift in the corners @Talladega.

But cool at same time.

Wonder if they could get rid of the plate...
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I doubt it. the plate cars are about 450 HP, and nacar will never cut engines to that HP level.
 
FenderBumper said:
Good point on the flat foot thing, but IF nascar also takes away the aero do-dads, they will have to slow in the corners. The speeds will be lower, but we'll be back to mechanical grip and softer tires that wear. That could be good for the racing.
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I'm all in favor of aero changes. The cars are way aero dependent, have been for years. Unfortunately though we race at tracks that are 1.5 miles or bigger for over half the year, so the tracks would have to change also, and I don't see NASCAR making changes at their expense. These teams have spent 100's of millions of dollars on R&D to compete under NASCAR's rules. I just think it's a little late in the game to change it. Almost unfair. Especially when they're talking about a 2015 change. It just screams easy fix like restrictor plate of tapered spacer.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
How they going to take this HP away? Restrictor plate, tapered spacer? I don't want to see the garbage 36 times a year. Teams have spent millions and millions of dollars developing the engine they race today, especially getting that 100 HP NASCAR wants back. I say, leave it alone. Outside of the teams using Triad motors, every team uses a engine from a big engine builder. (Hendrick,Childress, TRD and Yates/Roush) I don't see any cost cutting being accomplished. It'll actually cause more cost because they will spend much more R&D to get that 100 hp back. I don't want to see them able to flat foot it all around the track, it doesn't make for good racing or take a whole lot of driving skill.
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Displacement and throttle body size are among the options.

Chevy and Toyota want 5.0-liter engines, Ford wants tapered spacers.
 
The V-6 motors used in the Busch series were pushrod motors. Racing versions of the V-6 stuff available from Ford and/or GM in that time period. No OHC motors.

Basically, they were V-8s with two cylinders cut off. They had an exhaust note all their own.
 
GM had the 229 and 231. They weren't OHC. The 229 was Chevy and IIRC had the distributor behind the carb, just like a small block Chevy. The Buick was 331 ci and had the dist up in front of the carb, like a Ford. IIRC it was the Buick 231 that was the preferred block. Had the same bore as a 350 IIRC.

That 331 evolved into the 3800.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I'm all in favor of aero changes. The cars are way aero dependent, have been for years. Unfortunately though we race at tracks that are 1.5 miles or bigger for over half the year, so the tracks would have to change also, and I don't see NASCAR making changes at their expense. These teams have spent 100's of millions of dollars on R&D to compete under NASCAR's rules. I just think it's a little late in the game to change it. Almost unfair. Especially when they're talking about a 2015 change. It just screams easy fix like restrictor plate of tapered spacer.
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So much needs to be fixed. The France siblings have messed things up pretty good. The format change was another quick fix, but it's good to see points racing fading to the background. 1.5's can be redone by shortening the straights and adding 2 corners. An even cheaper way at some would be to make turn 3 wider and tighter so they exit on a new section that heads straight for the top of the dog leg, which becomes turn 4. Then 2 of the 4 turns would be too unique for momentum racing. Cars would set up for their best turn, and others would be faster in the other turns and catch up. Unique corners would keep the field closer together.
 
R Clarence said:
The V-6 motors used in the Busch series were pushrod motors. Racing versions of the V-6 stuff available from Ford and/or GM in that time period. No OHC motors.

Basically, they were V-8s with two cylinders cut off. They had an exhaust note all their own.
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Bobw said:
GM had the 229 and 231. They weren't OHC. The 229 was Chevy and IIRC had the distributor behind the carb, just like a small block Chevy. The Buick was 331 ci and had the dist up in front of the carb, like a Ford. IIRC it was the Buick 231 that was the preferred block. Had the same bore as a 350 IIRC.

That 331 evolved into the 3800.
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OHC would be key to cost cutting, IMO. Some of the OHC V6's these days sound pretty good, and it's become the stock performance engine in many cars. Pushrod is becoming a museum piece. It sure isn't stock anymore.
 
Less HP will probably make AERO even more critical.

There is something special about watching a car with more power than aero and handling. It makes them a raw beast I do not want to loose that.

The Indy 500 lost some thing when they had to slow there straightaway speed down. Aside from the RP tracks the cars are staying on the ground with the current HP. Why not just enjoy it as long as we can.
 
FenderBumper said:
You mean lower gears with a higher top end? Rear gear terminology always confuses me.
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They could figure what ring and pinion and transmission high gear combo and tire hight would allow the car to run a certain speed at a certain rpm. The teams can only turn the engine rpm so high before they will start damaging them. They can also set the rpm with a chip.
 
Greg said:
Less HP will probably make AERO even more critical.

There is something special about watching a car with more power than aero and handling. It makes them a raw beast I do not want to loose that.

The Indy 500 lost some thing when they had to slow there straightaway speed down. Aside from the RP tracks the cars are staying on the ground with the current HP. Why not just enjoy it as long as we can.
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How? Less HP = lower speed. Lower speed gives Goodyear the chance to get back to more mechanical grip and less aero (downforce) grip.
 
I wasn’t arguing OHC’s vs. push rods, FB, I answered your question.

My 4Runner is has V-6, four cams, two in each head, and thirty two valves. I’ll keep it until something better for my usage comes along.

Cost cutting isn’t going to happen. The specs go out and cubic dollars will be spent to wring every last drop of power of it to make it faster.
 
Nitro Dude said:
They could figure what ring and pinion and transmissions high gear combo and tire hight would allow the car run a certain speed at a certain rpm. The teams can only turn the engine rpm so high before they will start damaging them.
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I don't think it would work. Everyone's top speed would be fixed at the same number, even in a pack.
 
R Clarence said:
I wasn’t arguing OHC’s vs. push rods, FB, I answered your question.

My 4Runner is has V-6, four cams, two in each head, and thirty two valves. I’ll keep it until something better for my usage comes along.

Cost cutting isn’t going to happen. The specs go out and cubic dollars will be spent to wring every last drop of power of it to make it faster.
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:confused:I wasn't arguing either. Just pointing out the difference's between yesterdays V6 and todays.

Thanks for the info.

Twin cam and 4 valves are pretty much standard today. That setup gives you HP or torque at a wide range of RPM's. I typically have 3 gear choices on my 5 speed Hyundai, which allows me to drive it like a 2 speed most of the time.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Yep, it would. They would fix one problem and create another.
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When I talk about nascar racing, I tend to exclude plate racing because it's unique and won't change much. I would be all for a 2 spec frame rule where shorter tracks can run a lighter frame and softer tires, but that would be expensive.
 
Its too expensive to develop a new engine like OHC. I am all for it but it wont happen. The only way I can go along with this is to lower displacement. No spacers, plates or any other quick fixes and I dont even like this idea all that much. Plate racing has opened up a whole new can of worms 4 times a year that I hate. I have said it a million times but if the car wont stick in the turns they will let off and slow down. The key ingredient of racing is big power and how to harness it. Bias ply tires made for great racing back in the day and allowed the cars to slide around. We dont need another IROC series.
 
Greg said:
Less HP will probably make AERO even more critical.

There is something special about watching a car with more power than aero and handling. It makes them a raw beast I do not want to loose that.

The Indy 500 lost some thing when they had to slow there straightaway speed down. Aside from the RP tracks the cars are staying on the ground with the current HP. Why not just enjoy it as long as we can.
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I don't see why NASCAR feels they need 3 divisions with horse power restrictions. What's next? They go sports car on us and run the classes together? :sarcasm:
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
I don't see why NASCAR feels they need 3 divisions with horse power restrictions. What's next? They go sports car on us and run the classes together? :sarcasm:
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I just feel the cup cars are too heavy and fast for good racing. At the speeds they run, the tires have to be hard and not wear. The splitter is a major cause of aero-push, because no air gets under the car and to the front of the car closing from behind.

I see it this way. The closing car has to drive the wheels off to get to the leader once the air is off his front end. Take off the aero do-dads and let them all drive the wheels off it, even if it's at a lower speed in the corners.
 
Reducing horsepower should reduce speeds and possibly getting rid of the restrictor plate. I didn't see anything in the article about reducing the weight of the car but some mentioned it and that would offset the power reduction (power to weight is the golden rule in racing). Smaller engines won't save money, everyone will develop new engine technology. It's not just reducing displacement, engineering will want to explore how engine components can be changed for a smaller displacement. Over time the clever engineers will probably find a way to get some of the lost power back.

Aerodynamics is the biggest challenge; reducing speeds reduces the aero problem but the quest is to control air flow so cars can run close together competively.
 
FenderBumper said:
I just feel the cup cars are too heavy and fast for good racing. At the speeds they run, the tires have to be hard and not wear. The splitter is a major cause of aero-push, because no air gets under the car and to the front of the car closing from behind.

I see it this way. The closing car has to drive the wheels off to get to the leader once the air is off his front end. Take off the aero do-dads and let them all drive the wheels off it, even if it's at a lower speed in the corners.
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The key to slowing the cars down in the corners is not restricting horsepower. The real effects of less horsepower is going to slow the straightaway speeds, the slower the straightaway speeds the less they have to let off or brake in to the turns. By the time you slow the cars down to take aero push and aero out of the equation you'd have the best drivers in the world racing street stocks.
 
FenderBumper said:
How? Less HP = lower speed. Lower speed gives Goodyear the chance to get back to more mechanical grip and less aero (downforce) grip.
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I doubt they will soften up the tires, and the rock characteristics will only magnify if they dont. I expect more two tire and gas only pit stops.
Track position will mean more because you and machine have become just a little more neutered and there is less of a beast under the hood to exploit the openings.
Less HP means less corner acceleration.

It will only be a psuedo improvement, the cars will stay closer together, just more synchronized protecting a spot that will be a lot more difficult to regain.
Brian, and Pemberton will boast about the BS improvements too. And there namby pamby fluffers will say yes sir lest they be fined.

But there is a real loss in this slow transformation. When we were kids there was something raw and shocking about the power of the cars. They were an outrageous shock to the senses and thats what got the racing blood flowing in our veins (at least mine).
I just think this additional sanitized layer is just one step in the degradation to the lukewarm vanilla.

Nascar was built on a wild west almost anything goes romantic appeal. I understand the need for controls but whats good at the shareholders table, in many cases has many long term negative consequences.

This is Sprint Cup the cream of thr crop, I can understand crate motors and late model stocks at the local tracks, it is a necessity for car counts. But when folks go to a cup race they should see it in the most unadulterated rated form. These cars are proven safe for fans everywhere except for the RP tracks. I want to see 850 horses at Martinsville.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
The key to slowing the cars down in the corners is not restricting horsepower. The real effects of less horsepower is going to slow the straightaway speeds, the slower the straightaway speeds the less they have to let off or brake in to the turns. By the time you slow the cars down to take aero push and aero out of the equation you'd have the best drivers in the world racing street stocks.
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Stop exaggerating! ;)

Take off the spoiler and you need less HP on the straights.
 
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