Shorter Races

Skoalbandit33 said:
Possibly but if you took a kid to MIS, Cali, Kansas, Joliet, Pocono or Atlanta they may fall asleep. A friend of mine took his son to a race at MIS a few years back. The kid played on his electronic device for most of the race and didn't watch the race. Later on he told his dad that he liked playing the Nascar video game but going to the race was boring. That is only one kid but I suspect there are many others like him.
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By kid, I mean one that is old enough to drive and has some semblance of an attention span. But if they show no aptitude for the sport, well, you tried anyway.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Networks want to keep that stuff, for whatever reason. Personally, I'd be fine with no pre-race show at all and an extended post-race show and/or longer race but FOX made it known a few years ago they want something like 40 minutes of pre-race in a 4-hour broadcast window.
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fox gets almost 5 mill viewers on nfl pregame.
nbc ---over 8 mill. pregame ....lead in for snf.

monkey see......monkey do.
worked there......should work here.......network mentality prolly ?

wonder what fox's prerace show ratings were this yr ?
 
FLRacingFan said:
Networks want to keep that stuff, for whatever reason. Personally, I'd be fine with no pre-race show at all and an extended post-race show and/or longer race but FOX made it known a few years ago they want something like 40 minutes of pre-race in a 4-hour broadcast window.
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Is it the networks that want to keep the pre-race ceremonies as part of the race broadcast or is it NASCAR itself? The networks don't show preliminary ceremonies for most other sporting events, especially not regular season ones. In the last month, the NFL broadcasts only included the anthem for the conference title games.. That would indicate to me that it's NASCAR's choice.

Before the Sept. 11th attacks, prerace ceremonies weren't shown in the main broadcast. When racing resumed two weeks later, NASCAR wanted to demonstrate their patriotism, and they haven't gotten over it. I'm a retired veteran from a family full of them, but get the cars off pit road within the first 5 minutes of the broadcast.
 
Team Penske said:
I don't think any changes are going to make a difference to the fan base. In the beginning, to take any 50's model car and make it go fast with a roaring big block engine, combined with skinny tires, a hungry driver with a beer in one hand and a cig in the other was very exciting. Couple that with Rock'n Roll, Country music, people hanging out with coolers of beer ( better known a tailgate parties) and you had a formula for success. Those same people are now responsible parents ( we hope) or grand parents who are forced to think more about their future than partying. So we have a decline in fans. Many of us could pull down an engine or work on our cars in the driveway and that to has gone away with the new cars as well.

Things are just not the same. At one time I sat around a fire drinking beer and party with Geof Bodine as did many others. Drivers today are on their jets going home before the race ends if their car is wrecked. Even they don't find it exciting enough to hang a round.
I predict racing of all types will go away in the near future.
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yes back in the day some how my farther in law got wing tip Dave to are camper at dover. I was just starting to get into nascar, that was pretty cool. money changes everything. just look what it did to the NCAA.
 
I'm a fan of the pre-race shows. Not so much the on air talent but I do like interviews with some of the drivers before the race. I also tune into the pre-race broadcast on FS1 for their coverage. When they have time at the end of a race broadcast they still interview the top 5 or so. If that isn't enough for everyone then you can tune into nascar.com's post-race media room coverage that is broadcast each and every week. All of the coverage is there for the people that want it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm a fan of the pre-race shows. Not so much the on air talent but I do like interviews with some of the drivers before the race. I also tune into the pre-race broadcast on FS1 for their coverage. When they have time at the end of a race broadcast they still interview the top 5 or so. If that isn't enough for everyone then you can tune into nascar.com's post-race media room coverage that is broadcast each and every week. All of the coverage is there for the people that want it.
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I have to admit the Americans get a lot more coverage than us Canadians do. We can't even get all the races.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
You know.. some would hate the idea ... but with the success of the new elimnation format of the chase.. rather than shorter races.. I'd like to see elimination style races... every quarter of the race a quarter of the field is eliminated or something like that. It has potential to bring in the "youth/ADHD/need it now" audience NASCAR is looking to please.
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Please git thine self a mirror. Slowly pull thou hairline back, and seeth if thou doth indeed possess the accursed Six hundred threescore and six insignia.
 
Greg said:
Please git thine self a mirror. Slowly pull thou hairline back, and seeth if thou doth indeed possess the accursed Six hundred threescore and six insignia.
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Yeah, I didn't even know how to respond to that post when I first read it so I moved along. It seems you nailed it though.
 
Reading between the lines there is a sad miss.
Fans have either been conditioned not to expect long extended stretched out green flag runs, or they just don't get it.

There is something beautiful about going 200 miles with no breaks, no relief or resets.
Some drivers will make a mistake others will capitalize.
A million different subplots play out. A driver was running 25th 200 laps ago. But he was strong throughout the pit cycles and now he has slowly and methodically worked his way up to fourth.

The battle for the lead may be dud, somebody might have nailed the setup and minus a problem will win the race.
That is when a good fan needs to look for good battles elsewhere , and if they do they will be rewarded. There is always a good battle going on. Something similar to my example of a guy going from 25th to 4th or whatever on multiple levels.
Two fans talking after the race, relating about the two different story lines they enjoyed.

The short attention span compromises are a poor band aid for real drama. Now there is almost a guarantee that we are going to reset (caution) during the last 25 miles.

It almost like any faith in letting the manifestation of the races real chemistry is gone. A sad sell out from those in charge, and poor race calling by the network announcers who fail to cover all of the racing dramas.
And made even worse by fan approval.

The same sentiment applies to wanting shorter races to accommodate those with a more casual interest. I guess with such a miss, more idiotic compromises like shorter races is to be expected.

Sounds more like another move or vote for self extinction to me.
 
Greg said:
Reading between the lines there is a sad miss.
Fans have either been conditioned not to expect long extended stretched out green flag runs, or they just don't get it.

There is something beautiful about going 200 miles with no breaks, no relief or resets.
Some drivers will make a mistake others will capitalize.
A million different subplots play out. A driver was running 25th 200 laps ago. But he was strong throughout the pit cycles and now he has slowly and methodically worked his way up to fourth.

The battle for the lead may be dud, somebody might have nailed the setup and minus a problem will win the race.
That is when a good fan needs to look for good battles elsewhere , and if they do they will be rewarded. There is always a good battle going on. Something similar to my example of a guy going from 25th to 4th or whatever on multiple levels.
Two fans talking after the race, relating about the two different story lines they enjoyed.

The short attention span compromises are a poor band aid for real drama. Now there is almost a guarantee that we are going to reset (caution) during the last 25 miles.

It almost like any faith in letting the manifestation of the races real chemistry is gone. A sad sell out from those in charge, and poor race calling by the network announcers who fail to cover all of the racing dramas.
And made even worse by fan approval.

The same sentiment applies to wanting shorter races to accommodate those with a more casual interest. I guess with such a miss, more idiotic compromises like shorter races is to be expected.

Sounds more like another move or vote for self extinction to me.
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How often is there actual drama in those long runs though? 400 and 500 miles isn't really an endurance run on engines anymore and, at far too many tracks still, the tires don't give off enough for a long run to change the complexion of the running order. Everyone's on the same pit strategy and the guy who was fastest in the first lap of a run is fastest on the 60th lap. That **** is the exact opposite of dramatic and exciting. But that's certain tracks more than anything (Texas, Dover, Indianapolis and Charlotte).
 
The New NA$CAR: Australian Pursuit!!!

Single file start, lineup straight up by qualifying speed. Once a car is passed, it is eliminated from competition and finishing spot is determined.

Once the chase field is set, the starting lineup will be inverted. Races should take appx. 45 minutes to complete.

:D:D:D
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How often is there actual drama in those long runs though? 400 and 500 miles isn't really an endurance run on engines anymore and, at far too many tracks still, the tires don't give off enough for a long run to change the complexion of the running order. Everyone's on the same pit strategy and the guy who was fastest in the first lap of a run is fastest on the 60th lap. That sh!t is the exact opposite of dramatic and exciting. But that's certain tracks more than anything (Texas, Dover, Indianapolis and Charlotte).
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I think folks just get stuck in a rut and if the best battle isn't for the lead they default to saying the race sucks.
There will always be a compelling story during the race.
TV just needs to find them and report them. And I don't mean any non sense about somebody's good luck charm or tear jerking sentimental yap. I am talking about real racing stories the on track battles of the day.

And if I accepted your premise that it truly sucks during and long run, then why not pursue that without apology. Or while not just have 25 lap heat races to make up a combination of 500 laps or miles. Not that I want it but that would be better than the caution debris littered 500s we often get now.
It would be less disingenuous than the current bull crap that cheapens the first 85% of the race.
 
Greg said:
I think folks just get stuck in a rut and if the best battle isn't for the lead they default to saying the race sucks.
There will always be a compelling story during the race.
TV just needs to find them and report them. And I don't mean any non sense about somebody's good luck charm or tear jerking sentimental yap. I am talking about real racing stories the on track battles of the day.

And if I accepted your premise that it truly sucks during and long run, then why not pursue that without apology. Or while not just have 25 lap heat races to make up a combination of 500 laps or miles. Not that I want it but that would be better than the caution debris littered 500s we often get now.
It would be less disingenuous than the current bull crap that cheapens the first 85% of the race.
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It doesn't help when one network only cares about one driver and is more focused on "storylines" than the actual race.

I don't care one way or another. If a race is too long and too boring, I'll turn something else on. I've accepted that older fans expect 500 mile races and enjoy long, drawn out runs and "strategy" more than they'd enjoy 300 miles of racing -- even if the racing is much better. This is a generational debate.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Is it the networks that want to keep the pre-race ceremonies as part of the race broadcast or is it NASCAR itself? The networks don't show preliminary ceremonies for most other sporting events, especially not regular season ones. In the last month, the NFL broadcasts only included the anthem for the conference title games.. That would indicate to me that it's NASCAR's choice.

Before the Sept. 11th attacks, prerace ceremonies weren't shown in the main broadcast. When racing resumed two weeks later, NASCAR wanted to demonstrate their patriotism, and they haven't gotten over it. I'm a retired veteran from a family full of them, but get the cars off pit road within the first 5 minutes of the broadcast.
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It was the former FOX Sports Chairman who said that a few years ago. 40 minutes of pre-race to 20 minutes of post-race was ideal to him. Whenever a race is postponed a day or two they usually forego the pre-race ceremonies.
 
ted@economy said:
Yes , there's a marketing strategy for you Nascar , go after the ADHD crowd.No wait ... Doing that already
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It's not really anything exclusive to NASCAR, although we do have an older fan base than most other sports. Student section attendance in college football has been trending downward for a while now (for multiple reasons) and universities have just recently realized that today's disinterested students are tomorrow's disinterested alumni.
 
nbc hired fox's krista voda for their prerace show this yr.
so ain't goin away.
 
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This is still the Daytona 500 coming up, right? I just wanted to make sure that the powers that be haven't been reading this thread.
 
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