Sloppy Chase, Sloppy racing.

The only reason Im not a big fan of the idea of shorter races is because then they would have to shorten NNS races too no?

There are a few I wouldn't mind seeing 100 miles shorter.. and a bunch that are already 300ish miles... 400 is a good number though.
Probably, but even most Nationwide races run between 2-2.5 hours right now. Cutting them down to 1.5-2 wouldn't be a bad thing.

With mechanical attrition not being nearly as much a factor as it used to be, I don't see why it can't be done. I don't think many people have missed the extra 100 miles at Pocono and Fontana recently.
 
Probably, but even most Nationwide races run between 2-2.5 hours right now. Cutting them down to 1.5-2 wouldn't be a bad thing.

With mechanical attrition not being nearly as much a factor as it used to be, I don't see why it can't be done. I don't think many people have missed the extra 100 miles at Pocono and Fontana recently.
I guess thats a pretty good point.. and I would think that with the smaller HP package they'll be bringing combined with less wear and tear could also help some of the smaller teams get to the track. Which is always good.
 
Probably, but even most Nationwide races run between 2-2.5 hours right now. Cutting them down to 1.5-2 wouldn't be a bad thing.

With mechanical attrition not being nearly as much a factor as it used to be, I don't see why it can't be done. I don't think many people have missed the extra 100 miles at Pocono and Fontana recently.

will be a fox / nbc decision prolly .
 
Here's what I'm talking about - if we just awarded the pennant to the team with the best record in each league the Angels would've made the World Series this year by a mere two games over the Orioles. But the Orioles had a tougher SOS and were significantly better against teams with a record of .500+ (51-40 versus the Angels' 41-43). They played different schedules and despite the Orioles not having as good a record you could easily argue they were the "best" team in the AL in the regular season. So playoffs are a bit of a necessity.

In NASCAR, everyone plays everyone else every week. Stupid argument.

Yeah, I have to lol a bit when people make the stick-n-ball to NASCAR playoff comparisons, like it's the same thing. Completely different set of circumstances.

once again......usa public like playoffs .......familiar w/ them .
it's here in nascar ... maybe ya'll should let all 10 races run.... before ya'll pull tha plug on it ?
 
I'm pretty sure FOX wanted to reduce the length of races a few years ago. At least, they were tired of the 600. I think it was back in 2011 or so they mentioned it.

pre fs1.....nbcsn tho ? cut into their goofy hi rated fox programs maybe ?
 
But on the other hand the chase racing hasn't been that sloppy to me. The late race yellow fever at New Hampshire was worse than anything that happened at Kansas imo

JJ has been struggling with speed for a while he simply hasn't been as six time fast this year or at least since the late spring. And he struggled at Kansas most of the weekend prior to the race and the wreck. Aside from name and reputation there wasn't much to be shocked about, he was running in no man's land were that kind of stuff should be expected.

Harvick was freaky fast as usual and still figured out how to loose it, as typical for the season.

Jr actually looked better than he has in the last two months, if they out cambered themselves I wouldn't be too upset. They haven't had winning speed in awhile, it was time to experiment imo . Tricked out or not I can't see how any fan of his should feel any more deprived , being fast enough with the wall banger is no worse than just being average in recent events.

Jeff was fast again, but victimized again, interpret it anyway you like. That is typical stuff, definitely not a new phenomenon that needed a chase trigger.

Kahne scraped the wall and his chances were gone, again that has been a common thing throughout the whole season. It might be bad caution timing, Kyle hitting him, or just another Kasey whatever but still typical in any case.

Brad was the only real surprise to me, he entered the event as the hottest driver and looking to be the most poised to contend for the title, but now Joey does. That is why they run the races, it shouldn't be predictable any time of the year.

I don't like these resets, but I think there is more dissapointment about who had a bad day, verses what the Chase is doing to the actual racing.

I don't care for this format , it juat doesn't excuse losing or' sloppy racing' . Everybody has the same number of laps to run, and has the same need to go fast as anyone else. It is a performance buisness that requires getting it done, or watching someone else getting the trophy.

I will be more sympathetic over the complaints for the finale, when everything, almost the whole world is put on a single event. Random bad luck will be profoundly more significant. But currently all 12 nations have the same task to complete over the three events And I still think two top fives in the next two gets anybody in. Anyone good enough to be a champion simply has to be extremely good over the next two races, not even the very best.

If any one of the big money front line teams take some crazy risk, with camber etc that is on them just like it is in the first 26 races. If one of the other 42 figures out how to run a smarter race, be it threatening rain strategy, or approaching an elimination event that's just part of the business. If it works or fails that's still their responsibility, every one else runs under the same conditions. Even the non nations should be just as determined. I am glad that Larson, Dillion, and McMurray raced hard and competitively, the motivation should be at full saturation level chase or no chase.

So congratulations to Lagano, he did what he had to do, better than anyone else.
 
pre fs1.....nbcsn tho ? cut into their goofy hi rated fox programs maybe ?

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Fox Sports chairman David Hill believes NASCAR races need to be shortened to fit into a three-hour broadcast window.

Hill said Monday night the length of races -- many stretch well into a fourth hour -- is one of the problems that's contributed to NASCAR's sinking television ratings.

"I think the racing is far too long," Hill said during Charlotte Motor Speedway's annual media tour. "There is more diversion, more opportunities for stuff than any other time in man's history."

Hill said the ideal for Fox would be a four-hour broadcast window, with 40 minutes of pre-race coverage and 20 minutes of post-race coverage. Asked if he'd push NASCAR to shorten any of its races, Hill didn't miss a beat.

"NASCAR doesn't negotiate," he deadpanned.


http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/news/story?id=6056097

He's in a different role now but I think his point remains true. Viewership is probably at its highest towards the very beginning and very end of races.
 
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Fox Sports chairman David Hill believes NASCAR races need to be shortened to fit into a three-hour broadcast window.

Hill said Monday night the length of races -- many stretch well into a fourth hour -- is one of the problems that's contributed to NASCAR's sinking television ratings.

"I think the racing is far too long," Hill said during Charlotte Motor Speedway's annual media tour. "There is more diversion, more opportunities for stuff than any other time in man's history."

Hill said the ideal for Fox would be a four-hour broadcast window, with 40 minutes of pre-race coverage and 20 minutes of post-race coverage. Asked if he'd push NASCAR to shorten any of its races, Hill didn't miss a beat.

"NASCAR doesn't negotiate," he deadpanned.


http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/news/story?id=6056097

He's in a different role now but I think his point remains true. Viewership is probably at its highest towards the very beginning and very end of races.

If he truly believe that, then why don't they cut the BS prerace show out first. Talking about cutting the race length while having a 40 min prerace show highlights their disconnected idiocy. One that cares little for the product. Their prerace show employees a staff and a full set of windbags wanting to keep their cut at the expense of the actual racing time.

They should walk the talk first.
 
If he truly believe that, then why don't they cut the BS prerace show out first. Talking about cutting the race length while having a 40 min prerace show highlights their disconnected idiocy. One that cares little for the product. Their prerace show employees a staff and a full set of windbags wanting to keep their cut at the expense of the actual racing time.

They should walk the talk first.
This makes more sense. TBH, I rarely if ever watch the pre-race stuff. There's usually not a whole lot of substance in the pre-race shows. I think going to air 15 minutes before the green flag drops would be plenty.
 
If he truly believe that, then why don't they cut the BS prerace show out first. Talking about cutting the race length while having a 40 min prerace show highlights their disconnected idiocy. One that cares little for the product. Their prerace show employees a staff and a full set of windbags wanting to keep their cut at the expense of the actual racing time.

They should walk the talk first.
If they want to spend time doing interviews, studio discussions, and whatnot they should focus on post-race. Not a whole lot of substance during the pre-race, just speculation.
 
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Fox Sports chairman David Hill believes NASCAR races need to be shortened to fit into a three-hour broadcast window.

Hill said Monday night the length of races -- many stretch well into a fourth hour -- is one of the problems that's contributed to NASCAR's sinking television ratings.

"I think the racing is far too long," Hill said during Charlotte Motor Speedway's annual media tour. "There is more diversion, more opportunities for stuff than any other time in man's history."

Hill said the ideal for Fox would be a four-hour broadcast window, with 40 minutes of pre-race coverage and 20 minutes of post-race coverage. Asked if he'd push NASCAR to shorten any of its races, Hill didn't miss a beat.

"NASCAR doesn't negotiate," he deadpanned.


http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/news/story?id=6056097

He's in a different role now but I think his point remains true. Viewership is probably at its highest towards the very beginning and very end of races.

that was 1 / 2011. since then...hill went ta american idol....now nat geo i think ?
 
But on the other hand the chase racing hasn't been that sloppy to me. The late race yellow fever at New Hampshire was worse than anything that happened at Kansas imo

JJ has been struggling with speed for a while he simply hasn't been as six time fast this year or at least since the late spring. And he struggled at Kansas most of the weekend prior to the race and the wreck. Aside from name and reputation there wasn't much to be shocked about, he was running in no man's land were that kind of stuff should be expected.

Harvick was freaky fast as usual and still figured out how to loose it, as typical for the season.

Jr actually looked better than he has in the last two months, if they out cambered themselves I wouldn't be too upset. They haven't had winning speed in awhile, it was time to experiment imo . Tricked out or not I can't see how any fan of his should feel any more deprived , being fast enough with the wall banger is no worse than just being average in recent events.

Jeff was fast again, but victimized again, interpret it anyway you like. That is typical stuff, definitely not a new phenomenon that needed a chase trigger.

Kahne scraped the wall and his chances were gone, again that has been a common thing throughout the whole season. It might be bad caution timing, Kyle hitting him, or just another Kasey whatever but still typical in any case.

Brad was the only real surprise to me, he entered the event as the hottest driver and looking to be the most poised to contend for the title, but now Joey does. That is why they run the races, it shouldn't be predictable any time of the year.

I don't like these resets, but I think there is more dissapointment about who had a bad day, verses what the Chase is doing to the actual racing.

I don't care for this format , it juat doesn't excuse losing or' sloppy racing' . Everybody has the same number of laps to run, and has the same need to go fast as anyone else. It is a performance buisness that requires getting it done, or watching someone else getting the trophy.

I will be more sympathetic over the complaints for the finale, when everything, almost the whole world is put on a single event. Random bad luck will be profoundly more significant. But currently all 12 nations have the same task to complete over the three events And I still think two top fives in the next two gets anybody in. Anyone good enough to be a champion simply has to be extremely good over the next two races, not even the very best.

If any one of the big money front line teams take some crazy risk, with camber etc that is on them just like it is in the first 26 races. If one of the other 42 figures out how to run a smarter race, be it threatening rain strategy, or approaching an elimination event that's just part of the business. If it works or fails that's still their responsibility, every one else runs under the same conditions. Even the non nations should be just as determined. I am glad that Larson, Dillion, and McMurray raced hard and competitively, the motivation should be at full saturation level chase or no chase.

So congratulations to Lagano, he did what he had to do, better than anyone else.
Good read.. I agree with most of that.. Especially the very last part :)
 
If he truly believe that, then why don't they cut the BS prerace show out first. Talking about cutting the race length while having a 40 min prerace show highlights their disconnected idiocy. One that cares little for the product. Their prerace show employees a staff and a full set of windbags wanting to keep their cut at the expense of the actual racing time.

They should walk the talk first.
This makes more sense. TBH, I rarely if ever watch the pre-race stuff. There's usually not a whole lot of substance in the pre-race shows. I think going to air 15 minutes before the green flag drops would be plenty.
If they want to spend time doing interviews, studio discussions, and whatnot they should focus on post-race. Not a whole lot of substance during the pre-race, just speculation.

lotsa folks gotta like that stuff.......all in tha ratin numbers !
maybe same folks votin on mikey dance show ? ha!
 
If they want to spend time doing interviews, studio discussions, and whatnot they should focus on post-race. Not a whole lot of substance during the pre-race, just speculation.

espn has done a pretty good job on post race .....so far .
 
My idea for those of you that don't like the pre-race show. Don't watch it. That way you all can be happy for not having to see it and those of us that do like it can still see it. Problem solved.

My idea for shorter races. When you see that the race starts @ 2:00pm and is scheduled to run until 5:00pm, tune in at 3:30. You'll get to see the shorter race and more sense of urgency that you desire. Problem solved.

I love my racing. The more the better. I'm one of the ones that liked the extra 100 miles at Pocono. Hell, I'm still pissed that they took that 100 away from me @ Dover. :mad:
 
My idea for those of you that don't like the pre-race show. Don't watch it. That way you all can be happy for not having to see it and those of us that do like it can still see it. Problem solved.

My idea for shorter races. When you see that the race starts @ 2:00pm and is scheduled to run until 5:00pm, tune in at 3:30. You'll get to see the shorter race and more sense of urgency that you desire. Problem solved.

I love my racing. The more the better. I'm one of the ones that liked the extra 100 miles at Pocono. Hell, I'm still pissed that they took that 100 away from me @ Dover. :mad:

If they shorten races, we'll catch hell from the bunch who like to take naps during the event.

If they lessen the frequency of commercials, we'll catch it from those who like watching football during that time.
 
In all honestly , I can see them shortening Golf from eighteen to seventeen holes . Golf is really boring and seventeen , even sixteen would make the players try harder on each hole . The viewers would be into it a lot more instead of just waiting for the final couple of holes .Nascar , they should leave the heck alone .:(
 
Ive said it before and I'll likely say it again... I dont care what format they race under... how many laps etc... as long as the cars are on track, making laps and passes and fighting for wins.. Im happy.
 
My idea for those of you that don't like the pre-race show. Don't watch it. That way you all can be happy for not having to see it and those of us that do like it can still see it. Problem solved.

My idea for shorter races. When you see that the race starts @ 2:00pm and is scheduled to run until 5:00pm, tune in at 3:30. You'll get to see the shorter race and more sense of urgency that you desire. Problem solved.

I love my racing. The more the better. I'm one of the ones that liked the extra 100 miles at Pocono. Hell, I'm still pissed that they took that 100 away from me @ Dover. :mad:
The only reason I had suggested shortening the pre-race show was as it related to the networks potentially wanting to shorten the total broadcast time. I'd rather see that time taken out of the pre-race rather than being taken out of laps on the track.
 
that was 1 / 2011. since then...hill went ta american idol....now nat geo i think ?
Yeah, something like that. I wonder if the mindset is still the same. If they feel it's necessary in their push for younger fans it will probably happen sooner rather than later. They had an column on their web site a year or two ago saying basically the same thing about baseball.
 
In all honestly , I can see them shortening Golf from eighteen to seventeen holes . Golf is really boring and seventeen , even sixteen would make the players try harder on each hole . The viewers would be into it a lot more instead of just waiting for the final couple of holes .Nascar , they should leave the heck alone .:(

Yeah I think they need to make the hole larger too Ted. Golfers spend way too much time staring at it. Also, use carts, and score points for first one to the tee. I'm for 16 tees also. Have the last tee have bonus points so a player can come from behind..it is just too long and boring as it is..I just go to the golfing site to bitch..I act like I am a caring golfing fan, but I really just like to bitch and moan about everything.
 
In all honestly , I can see them shortening Golf from eighteen to seventeen holes . Golf is really boring and seventeen , even sixteen would make the players try harder on each hole . The viewers would be into it a lot more instead of just waiting for the final couple of holes .Nascar , they should leave the heck alone .:(
Maybe they should also reset everybody to Even after each hole. ;)
 
But on the other hand the chase racing hasn't been that sloppy to me. The late race yellow fever at New Hampshire was worse than anything that happened at Kansas imo

JJ has been struggling with speed for a while he simply hasn't been as six time fast this year or at least since the late spring. And he struggled at Kansas most of the weekend prior to the race and the wreck. Aside from name and reputation there wasn't much to be shocked about, he was running in no man's land were that kind of stuff should be expected.

Harvick was freaky fast as usual and still figured out how to loose it, as typical for the season.

Jr actually looked better than he has in the last two months, if they out cambered themselves I wouldn't be too upset. They haven't had winning speed in awhile, it was time to experiment imo . Tricked out or not I can't see how any fan of his should feel any more deprived , being fast enough with the wall banger is no worse than just being average in recent events.

Jeff was fast again, but victimized again, interpret it anyway you like. That is typical stuff, definitely not a new phenomenon that needed a chase trigger.

Kahne scraped the wall and his chances were gone, again that has been a common thing throughout the whole season. It might be bad caution timing, Kyle hitting him, or just another Kasey whatever but still typical in any case.

Brad was the only real surprise to me, he entered the event as the hottest driver and looking to be the most poised to contend for the title, but now Joey does. That is why they run the races, it shouldn't be predictable any time of the year.

I don't like these resets, but I think there is more dissapointment about who had a bad day, verses what the Chase is doing to the actual racing.

I don't care for this format , it juat doesn't excuse losing or' sloppy racing' . Everybody has the same number of laps to run, and has the same need to go fast as anyone else. It is a performance buisness that requires getting it done, or watching someone else getting the trophy.

I will be more sympathetic over the complaints for the finale, when everything, almost the whole world is put on a single event. Random bad luck will be profoundly more significant. But currently all 12 nations have the same task to complete over the three events And I still think two top fives in the next two gets anybody in. Anyone good enough to be a champion simply has to be extremely good over the next two races, not even the very best.

If any one of the big money front line teams take some crazy risk, with camber etc that is on them just like it is in the first 26 races. If one of the other 42 figures out how to run a smarter race, be it threatening rain strategy, or approaching an elimination event that's just part of the business. If it works or fails that's still their responsibility, every one else runs under the same conditions. Even the non nations should be just as determined. I am glad that Larson, Dillion, and McMurray raced hard and competitively, the motivation should be at full saturation level chase or no chase.

So congratulations to Lagano, he did what he had to do, better than anyone else.


greg....lotsa good stuff / analysis.
you didn't get a big bump on head at work did ya ? :D
 
In all honestly , I can see them shortening Golf from eighteen to seventeen holes . Golf is really boring and seventeen , even sixteen would make the players try harder on each hole . The viewers would be into it a lot more instead of just waiting for the final couple of holes .Nascar , they should leave the heck alone .:(

I don't follow golf but that Tigers Wood fellow ain't giving up any of his Ho's.
 
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