Texas getting second cup date

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bowtie

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Texas Motor Speedway will have its long-awaited second NASCAR Nextel Cup Series race in 2005.

here is a list of other changes

• Darlington, owned by lawsuit co-defendant International Speedway Corp., loses one of its two dates and will hold its race the day before Mother's Day, traditionally an open weekend for the Cup Series.

• North Carolina, an ISC track that was pared to one race this season, will lose its remaining February date.

• Phoenix, another ISC racetrack, will also have two Cup dates - in February (North Carolina's race) and November (Darlington's second date). Phoenix and TMS will be two of 14 facilities with two races in 2005.

• Atlanta, a sister track of TMS in Bruton Smith's Speedway Motorsports empire, will keep its two dates, but the spring race will be pushed later into March in an attempt to ease weather concerns.


read the article here
http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/8483885.htm
 
Same song 39th verse....

While I think TMS will be getting a 2nd date in 2005, I'll wait for an official announcement on the details.

Also still trying to figure out who ISC moving a date to another ISC track (Phoenix) would be part of the settlement..
 
I with you, TonyB. I'll wait until the official announcement to come.

As much as I want a 2nd date for TMS, I don't want The Rock to lose it's date. The racing there is just too good.
 
The Rock is going to loose it's date soon. If it isn't to TMS it will to a different track in a different market.
 
Yea I seem that in this mornings Star Telegram , it sounds like a done deal for the TMS race.
They are reporting the second date, will probably be in early November during the 10-race "Chase for the Championship," this seems to be the key piece of an agreement that keeps the Cup schedule at 36 races and involves four other facilities: Phoenix International Raceway, Atlanta Motor Speedway, Darlington Raceway and North Carolina Speedway.
They are also taking about a few Wednesday night races too, in the report.

It all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
I wonder, when all these newly found fair weather fans are bored with the sport and move on to downhill synchronized chainsaw wrestling or whatever, how quickly NASCAR will be begging for Darlington and Rockingham to take second dates, and start courting the fans who made them what they are today to come back. The NFL can't even keep a team in Los Angeles for God's sake, what makes them think Junior et al can?

I wonder.
 
PureDeath referenced the article in our local paper (Star Telegram). I figured I'd post a link so that you folks could read it, too (it is the same as what is posted at That's Racin' as bowtie posted the link).

Linky-link

Now for my opinion, I'll wait for the powers that be from Nascar/ISC/SMI for the official statement regarding the settlement of the lawsuit. Until then, it's nothing but heresay.
 
Originally posted by majestyx@Apr 21 2004, 06:17 PM
Now for my opinion, I'll wait for the powers that be from Nascar/ISC/SMI for the official statement regarding the settlement of the lawsuit. Until then, it's nothing but heresay.
That's what we said about them changing the points system too.

That's what we said about The Southern 500 getting moved to November too.

Three strikes, yer out NASCAR.
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum+Apr 21 2004, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EatMorePossum @ Apr 21 2004, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--majestyx@Apr 21 2004, 06:17 PM
Now for my opinion, I'll wait for the powers that be from Nascar/ISC/SMI for the official statement regarding the settlement of the lawsuit.&nbsp; Until then, it's nothing but heresay.
That's what we said about them changing the points system too.

That's what we said about The Southern 500 getting moved to November too.

Three strikes, yer out NASCAR. [/b][/quote]
I know, EMP. And, you know my opinion on taking a race from any of those tracks, too. I don't like it, even though it puts another race in my backyard. Now, if it was a race from New Hampshire, that's a little bit different. ;) NOT from Darlington, Rockingham, Martinsville or any other track with great racing like those tracks have. :)
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Apr 21 2004, 09:45 AM
• Phoenix, another ISC racetrack, will also have two Cup dates - in February (North Carolina's race) and November (Darlington's second date). Phoenix and TMS will be two of 14 facilities with two races in 2005.
Why phoenix?

Why not get another short track? We have to many of these cookie cutter tracks...
 
I received the following from Speedway Media this afternoon. I'm also wating for an Official Announcement.



The Newest Reported New Schedule
If this is for real, what will it mean?

NASCAR competitors discuss


Posted on April 21, 2004

THE FORT WORTH STAR-TELEGRAM REPORTED IN EDITIONS OF WEDNESDAY, APRIL 21, THE NASCAR NEXTEL CUP SCHEDULE WOULD UNDERGO SOME MAJOR CHANGES STARTING IN 2005 – INCLUDING A SECOND DATE AT TEXAS MOTOR SPEEDWAY AND PHOENIX INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY, AS WELL AS MOVING DATES AT DARLINGTON AND ROCKINGHAM, AS WELL AS A SLIGHT SHIFT FOR ATLANTA’S SPRING DATE.



RUMORS AND REPORTS HAVE FOLLOWED THE SCHEDULE FOR YEARS, BUT MORE INTENSIVELY THIS YEAR THAN ANY OTHER.



HERE IS WHAT SOME NASCAR COMPETITORS HAD TO SAY IN REGARDS TO THAT REPORT AND OTHER REPORTS THIS SEASON:



JEFF GREEN, Driver, #43 Cheerios/Betty Crocker Dodge:



“You have to take all of this at face value right now. We’ve heard so much stuff, it’s hard to figure what is true, what isn’t and what is going to happen with the schedule. This could be right on the money, who knows? When they call and say, ‘Hey, the race is here this weekend,’ then that’s where we’ll go race.

“The upside of this particular report is we’re staying around the 36-race schedule. We’ve been pushing the limits with our teams as far as the schedule is concerned. We travel from the east coast to the west coast and back again, and we have testing involved in there too.

“Our guys need a chance to rest. However it is drawn up, I’m hoping that will be taken into consideration.”



KYLE PETTY, Driver, #45 Georgia-Pacific/Brawny Dodge:



“The Cup schedule is going to change. It might not change in 2005 or it might, but it is going to change. That’s just the nature of the thing. Whether it’s set up the way this story has it or some other way, we know there is going to be some change.

“The teams adjust and move on. From a team standpoint, it doesn’t matter where we race. Wherever they say to be, we’ll be. From a sponsorship standpoint, something like this would take us into some bigger markets, or bigger markets more often, and that’s a great thing for the sponsors. That’s what they are looking for. That helps the television situation too because those guys want big markets and to be able to generate interest there more often.

“All of this still boils down to ‘wait and see.’ We’ll wait, and then we’ll see. But no matter what happens, we’ll be hearing more schedule rumors in 2005 about 2006, and waiting and seeing then too.”



KEN SCHRADER, Driver, #49 Schwan’s Home Service Dodge:



“If it’s all about the fans – and it should be all about the fans – then maybe an additional race at some of these big-market tracks is the way to go. Television has helped create a whole lot of interest in our sport, and the current (television) package has sure helped us grow. But there is some demand with that growth too. As great as television can be, nothing compares to actually being there. And the fans in
Texas or Phoenix or wherever want the chance to be there.

“NASCAR is going to respond to that in some form or fashion. Will it be like this? I don’t know. But I do think NASCAR will do everything it can to make things as right as they can for our fans and our sponsors.”
 
Yes, I got the same bulletin from Speedway Media. But you can also check
BASCAR.com, and Racing Insider as well. They both have articlews poated announcing these changes.
Looks to me to be cast in concrete.
bds.gif
 
Originally posted by slick-nick@Apr 21 2004, 05:59 PM
Why phoenix?

Why not get another short track? We have to many of these cookie cutter tracks...
Phoenix is a cookie cutter?

First I've ever heard 1 mile track with a unique layout called a cookie cutter.
 
Sure Pheonix is a cuttie cutter. :) Any track west of the Mississippi is a cookie cutter........except Infineon. Wonder how Chicago got lumped into that group? :blink:
 
i wonder how many tracks will lose races in the next 5 years ? or if like EMP said nastycar will be begging the fans they have lost to come back. The wine and cheeze crowd they are wooooooing at the moment will get bored and move on.
 
Originally posted by slick-nick+Apr 21 2004, 05:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slick-nick @ Apr 21 2004, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bowtie@Apr 21 2004, 09:45 AM
• Phoenix, another ISC racetrack, will also have two Cup dates - in February (North Carolina's race) and November (Darlington's second date). Phoenix and TMS will be two of 14 facilities with two races in 2005.
Why phoenix?

Why not get another short track? We have to many of these cookie cutter tracks... [/b][/quote]

Well, it might not seem like a logical choice, but I've been there and I'm going back again for the race in November. I think it's one of those tracks that would benefit from better pack coverage on tv because it's 2 wide just about the entire race, pretty darn exciting in person.

While it's sad to see another historic track get axed, well that means I get to see another race live. If all of the people here (and everwhere else) who are so upset about these tracks losing dates went to those races and filled the stands then we wouldn't be having these discussions. One day today's new tracks will become aged and be replaced by the next bigger, newer, higher capacity tracks. It's just the way it goes. How many historic ballparks get razed to make way for generic suite filled ballparks? Same with historic and loved football, hockey and basketball arenas. Nascar is a business and like all major business it is driven by the almighty $$.

Bottom line is that those tracks don't get the job done as far as the $$ goes.
 
TeamHendrick, all that's been pointed out numerous times..........many just don't want to believe it so I guess they ignore it!! :D Professional sports are profit oriented.......amateur sports are "tradition" oriented. I'm pretty sure NASCAR's top series are professional. :)

You're right......but some won't believe you. :D
 
Why is it that short tracks like Bristol & Martinville have no problem selling out the tickets. Large ones like Daytona & Talladaga have no problem selling tickets. So what is it about Darlington and Rockingham that they can't. I was never a fan of the Rock but I do hate to see Darlington lose a date. :(
 
Could it be that Darlington and Rockingham are sentimental tracks? I like the racing on both tracks.......but are they really the best there is today? I'm not too sure............some races are good, but most are rather boring when compared to tracks like Michigan, Atlanta, Texas, Las Vegas, California, Phoenix (to a certain degree), and judging by last season, Homestead. All those are "Cooke Cutters" (at least defined as such by the lovers of Darlington and Rockingham). Both those tracks have history.........history of great races in days past. But, the cars and the sport have outgrown those tracks..........they just don't offer the same races they did 20 years ago when the cars were much different and the technology was way less than it is today. Those tracks are suffering from lack of keeping up with the sport. I'm not knocking the tracks........it's just a fact. They'll be gone in a few years entirely. And then we'll be griping about what a great track like Phoenix is doing on the chopping block.

Disclaimer: I just tossed out Phoenix for a point..........insert any modern (but not too modern) track you choose. Say Atlanta instead of Phoenix.
 
Wow.

Busch and Craven's finish was dull, but calculating gas mileage at Michigan and Cali is thrilling?


You must be CPA for an insurance company.
 
Originally posted by TonyB+Apr 21 2004, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TonyB @ Apr 21 2004, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--slick-nick@Apr 21 2004, 05:59 PM
Why phoenix?

Why not get another short track?&nbsp; We have to many of these cookie cutter tracks...
Phoenix is a cookie cutter?

First I've ever heard 1 mile track with a unique layout called a cookie cutter. [/b][/quote]
My bad... that came out wrong. I meant to get another short track because we have too many cookie cutter tracks. I didn't mean Phoenix was a cookie cutter. I apologize about that.
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Apr 22 2004, 07:02 PM
Busch and Craven's finish was dull


You must be CPA for an insurance company.
One race in how many years? :D What about last weekend's race? Pretty good one too........but does that make Martinsville a great track? I think Martinsville is a great track.......better than Darlington for putting on good races on a consistent basis. How about Dega in 99? Not only was the race for the win close, so was the race for 3rd, 4th, 5th,...............all the way to about 25th. And it all went by in less than a second. :D Kind of forgot that one, huh? But using that logic, Dega puts on one hell of a race........oops, it's a plate track so that just can't be true. :blink:

And I'm no CPA...........just a dumb electrician.
 
The competition at Talladega is artificially enhanced. We all know that. Only one driver can pass, the rest just ride around at the same speed until someone sneezes and then the remaining 2/3 of the field battle for second place. Thrill a minute, huh?

It takes more talent to navigate Darlington. You have to know the line and hit it every time. Most of the drivers can't do that. I can name several who probably never will that look like world beaters at Rush Hour, Alabama.

But hey, to each his own. I'll content myself with being entertained by the battle of man vs machine vs track at The Lady In Black, you count laps until the next gas stop at Cali. We'll both be happy.
 
I think this pretty much says it all. It not only addresses the current fiasco, it also gives a black and white verification of just what lengths the Frances will go to in order to get what they want. Rockingham saved the sport, now NASCAR doesn't nned them anymore.

I hope and pray the fruit and nut crowd gets tired of racing in about three years. I pray Junior still can't win a title even with the final 10 race junk, and it as stacked in his favor as can be given his history at Talladega, Texas, and Phoenix. I hope that when the Frances come back with their tail tucked between their legs the citizens and commisioners of Darlington and Rockingham and everywhere else that gets screwed tells them to go to hell. We weren't good enough before, go race in California with your new friends.

Article is from catchfence.com. Bold print is from yours truly for emphasis. After reading it, try and tell me NASCAR doesn't make the rules up as they go. But some don't want to hear that, so it just can't be true, right?


Tradition biggest loser in deal


By Ed Hardin

Landmark News Service



Rockingham has gone the way of North Wilkesboro. And Hickory. And Bowman Gray. And Raleigh. And Asheville-Weaverville.

NASCAR has moved on again, and the state that built the sport is left choking on the dust.

The news out of Daytona is, once again, sad. We will race no more at North Carolina Motor Speedway. NASCAR will sacrifice it for a second race at Texas as a part of a convoluted settlement of a convoluted lawsuit. NCMS will be dropped from the 2005 schedule.

After 40 years of racing, the track that once helped save the sport will be left to gather sand and grass while the sport speeds off to bigger races in bigger places.

We shouldn't be surprised. We could see it coming. But it makes it no easier to realize that North Carolina, which once held races at almost 20 different NASCAR tracks, now has one.

We used to race in Greensboro and Hillsborough, Harris and Concord, High Point and Wilson, Shelby and Jacksonville. In 1958, there were 51 races on the NASCAR schedule, and 21 were raced in North Carolina. In 2005, there will be 36 races, and two will be held in North Carolina.

The next schedule will also be without one of the Darlington events, the old track finally losing out to progress and legal battles. Phoenix is expected to add a second race for the 2005 season as the sport continues a trend away from its Southern roots toward nationalism.

The official announcements will not come until later in the summer, and few people in the sport were willing to talk as the news trickled out this week. People in and around Rockingham were more than willing.

"We're mad, we're angry and we're disappointed that we weren't given a chance," Rockingham city manager Monty Crump said. "This was a done deal. We were set up to fail."

There's a lot of truth behind Crump's claim. The races at Rockingham could've easily been saved by moving the winter race to the summer, by adding lights and by NASCAR acknowledging that North Carolina Motor Speedway was an important part of the sport.

The founder of NASCAR, the late Bill France, believed Rockingham saved the sport in 1965.

The yet unbuilt track was scheduled to hold the final event of that season, a year that most in NASCAR remember as the worst ever. Four drivers - Fireball Roberts, Jimmy Pardue, Joe Weatherly and Billy Wade - had died in the previous year. Curtis Turner had been kicked out of the sport for trying to unionize drivers. Chrysler has boycotted the 1965 season because NASCAR had outlawed the hemi engine. And General Motors had pulled out completely.

France feared the sport itself was dying, having been reduced to an all-Ford series without its stars such as Plymouth's Richard Petty, Dodge's David Pearson, along with Junior Johnson and Fred Lorenzen, who were threatening to retire.

A flat oval in the Sandhills of North Carolina became France's opportunity to make a statement in the final race of the season and save his empire.

The story of Rockingham's construction was a major story as engineers fought the elements, a fire and a race against time to finish the project by Oct.31, 1965. The track was finished on Oct.29.

The first American 500 remains one of the most famous races in NASCAR history. France had worked behind the scenes to convince Lorenzen and Johnson to race at least once more. He worked out an arrangement for Chrysler to return with its stars. He allowed Turner to race.

Petty would win the pole and lead the first 45 laps before Marvin Panch, in the Wood Brothers No.21, took the lead. Bobby Issac, Jim Paschal, Johnson and young Cale Yarborough all led before Turner passed Yarborough with 26 laps to go on the way to his last win as a stock-car racer.

Every leader that day would end up in the stock-car racing Hall of Fame. The sport was saved.

Rockingham was the host of 78 NASCAR races, some of the best we'll ever see. Across its lifetime, the state lost all its events except those in Charlotte. The economic impact should've been enough to alert political leaders. The psychological impact should've been enough to alarm the sport's sanctioning body which owes its soul to North Carolina.

The sale of North Carolina Motor Speedway is now on the schedule. NASCAR sold its soul a long time ago.
 
Nice article EMP.

NASCAR has been thumbing it's nose at it's own history for several years now. They have been crapping on it's long time fans and reaching out to newer fans.

I realize why NASCAR feels the need to grow and expand. The cost of fielding a team has grown by leaps and bounds due in part to NASCAR's ever increasing rule changes. Someone gripes about another body style having a perceived advantage over them and NASCAR changes something like a spoiler and then every team running one of the changed models has to revamp their process and spend millions in the wind tunnel, etc.

Sponsorship money is running dry and NASCAR doesn't seem to understand that you can't cure that by attracting new trend following fans.

Some of these newer fans will become long-time fans, but most will go to a race or two when it is still trendy and then move on to the next hot ticket.

The Los Angeles Raiders, Charlotte Hornets, Vancouver Grizzlies and the like should serve as an example to NASCAR that new fans can be very fickle. What do these teams have in common? None of them are there anymore. All had to move when the fickle newer fans decided it wasn't trendy to attend anymore and moved on to something else. :mellow:
 
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