NASCAR's "Overtime"

Agree with Jr. Talladega and Daytona are the only ppaces the really need an overtime line. Even then it still shouldn't come into play until after the white flag.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Wasn't Dale Jarrett involved with the not racing to back to the stripe under yellow rule? My memory says that Ernie Irvan and the Skittles car hit DJ racing back to the stripe but I wouldn't bet a nickle on it.
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Yes he was....
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Wasn't Dale Jarrett involved with the not racing to back to the stripe under yellow rule? My memory says that Ernie Irvan and the Skittles car hit DJ racing back to the stripe but I wouldn't bet a nickle on it.
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Not sure if this is the incident, but I do think this bought on the lucky dog rule. Not positive though posting from work and I cant confirm the time lines.



^Watch them come race back to the line almost a full lap later, with Jarrett as a sitting duck.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Wasn't Dale Jarrett involved with the not racing to back to the stripe under yellow rule? My memory says that Ernie Irvan and the Skittles car hit DJ racing back to the stripe but I wouldn't bet a nickle on it.
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That's the incident I was thinking of. They did away with racing back to the line with the G/W/C which in turn necessitated the Lucky Dog.
 
Greg said:
Not sure if this is the incident, but I do think this bought on the lucky dog rule. Not positive though posting from work and I cant confirm the time lines.



^Watch them come race back to the line almost a full lap later, with Jarrett as a sitting duck.
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It was a gentleman's agreement they had about racing back to the line. Worked about as good as the "respect" thing they have going now. Racing back to the line all came to a head/halt when Jarrett was almost killed. After that when the caution flew, the field was frozen. The GWC came much later and I don't remember weather they came up with that out of the blue, or it was an incident. I do remember way back when the wave arounds came about. There were a number of late cautions and the lead cars(the field would be much more spread out than now) would be separated by various backmarkers. A number of times it was Earnhardt Sr. or Allison or (insert driver here) being 4 or 5 cars back in line with 4 or 5 laps to go. The fans screamed for that to end so they fixed it. Same thing for lucky dogs..Fans want their idea of fairness, do overs, we want the exciting finish..the overtime line slaps us in the face.
 
The overtime line does prevent multiple GWC's as it did yesterday which can prevent less carnage.
I don't mind the half a lap of yellow to take the checkers to make sure they are safe coming through
the accident area. At least they were at speed crossing the overtime line before the checkers.

Back in the day of finishing under late cautions was such a let down. Not much to talk
about walking a mile back to the car after those.
 
There should be no limit on them and they should work like they do in ARCA, if ARCA drivers can do it so can cup.
 
Greg said:
Not sure if this is the incident, but I do think this bought on the lucky dog rule. Not positive though posting from work and I cant confirm the time lines.



^Watch them come race back to the line almost a full lap later, with Jarrett as a sitting duck.
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That is it alright and thanks for the video.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
You do that & you get into Harvick 2015 dega territory.
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Why do we need to end under green? Is it really necessary to run 530 miles to finish a 500-mile race? These restart carnivals are bad enough already and it does a disservice to the teams in terms of fuel strategy because they're chasing a moving target. Give them a little extra window and call it a day.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Why do we need to end under green? Is it really necessary to run 530 miles to finish a 500-mile race? These restart carnivals are bad enough already and it does a disservice to the teams in terms of fuel strategy because they're chasing a moving target. Give them a little extra window and call it a day.
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Your saying it like it happens every week...it doesn't even when they had 3 attempts they rarely had more then 1. Even when the trucks had unlimited attempts they only went past 3 one time and that race had 4.
 
I'd like to see a system that would call for the lap counter to stop whenever there is a caution with ten laps (or less) For example, if there is a caution thrown with seven laps, then the race would restart with seven laps to go.

The only exceptions to this rule would be if there were less than five laps left, at which time the counter would reset to five (i.e. if there were three laps to go, then it would be reset to five at the restart), with the other being that if the caution comes out on the final lap after the white flag is waved, everyone would just simply race back to the finish line.
 
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kkfan91 said:
Your saying it like it happens every week...it doesn't even when they had 3 attempts they rarely had more then 1. Even when the trucks had unlimited attempts they only went past 3 one time and that race had 4.
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Most races have a bunch of restarts in the last quarter of the race these days. The whole race in general, even.

And if they made it work before two should be more than enough.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Most races have a bunch of restarts in the last quarter of the race these days. The whole race in general, even.

And if they made it work before two should be more than enough.
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The two lap shootout causes all the restart chaos. 2 laps at most tracks is barely enough time to get to full speed. Up it to 5 laps & I bet we see less wrecks coming out of turn 2 on lap 1 of a GWC.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Why do we need to end under green? Is it really necessary to run 530 miles to finish a 500-mile race? These restart carnivals are bad enough already and it does a disservice to the teams in terms of fuel strategy because they're chasing a moving target. Give them a little extra window and call it a day.
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That is what the majority of the fans wanted. Back then those claims were believed. Lately it's a different story. The principals now never darken the doors of a racetrack, and I think one of them at least would be better suited owning a stick n ball team, most of the latest ideas seem to come from there.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The two lap shootout causes all the restart chaos. 2 laps at most tracks is barely enough time to get to full speed. Up it to 5 laps & I bet we see less wrecks coming out of turn 2 on lap 1 of a GWC.
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Restarts, in general, elevate the probability of another wreck for a number of laps after. Not just after a GWC.

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Especially so in the final quarter of a race.

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An incident due to contact occurs more than half of the time within the first dozen laps after a restart in the final quarter of a race.
 
Greg said:
Not sure if this is the incident, but I do think this bought on the lucky dog rule. Not positive though posting from work and I cant confirm the time lines.



^Watch them come race back to the line almost a full lap later, with Jarrett as a sitting duck.
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Thanks for doing the research.
 
You'de be harder pressed to find something to not complain about than you would be finding more issues with NASCARs rules.

I like the way that have it now.

..is this not the first time a wreck occurred after the over timeline had been crossed? ..and already it's an issue.. come on.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Why do we need to end under green? Is it really necessary to run 530 miles to finish a 500-mile race? These restart carnivals are bad enough already and it does a disservice to the teams in terms of fuel strategy because they're chasing a moving target. Give them a little extra window and call it a day.
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Which is why I say, all or nothing. If they are going to have GWC, they should do everything possible to run until the race ends under green flag conditions.

Otherwise just get rid of GWC, and let races end organically like they did for 50 years.

I'm just tired of NASCAR's hypocrisy and half measures. The sanctioning body has the least common sense and foresight of any sports league in America.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
You'de be harder pressed to find something to not complain about than you would be finding more issues with NASCARs rules.

I like the way that have it now.

..is this not the first time a wreck occurred after the over timeline had been crossed? ..and already it's an issue.. come on.
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nope, it isn't the first time and on the other side of the coin, they have had wrecks and held off on throwing the yellow until they crossed the finish line so they didn't finish under yellow..and that is ok? Doesn't make any sense can't run it out because of a line and then you get past it and wreck and you can finish under green? Gives me a headache just thinking about it.
 
NASCAR isn't going to make everyone happy. I am a believer in ending it under green. It is kind of a ****** deal to pay your hard earned money and see the culmination of the race come under yellow. I hate the OT line. I don't hat that it exists, just where they put it and how it is pretty much not visible to us in TV land. I believe that the line should be the start/finish. If you are going to go G/W/C then I would like to see the line only come into play on the last lap. It is pretty bad that the restart was over as soon as it got going. If they wreck after the white then throw the yellow and call it. If it happens prior to the white then stack them up and do it again. Give them 3 shots at it. Should not be a problem for the "best drivers in the world."
 
All I remember is they would always throw a red with 10 laps left, and then one talladega race, they let Gordon putts around for 5 laps under caution, and the beer cans went flying. I like the idea of not counting caution laps with 5-10 to go, and if a caution occurs with a lap to go, end the race. What they're doing now is just turning an easy fix into a farce. No one wants to see a Jeff Gordon putts around for 5 laps, and no one wants a harvick incident to ever happen again.
 
I never had a problem with a race ending under yellow any more than I have a problem with football teams running out the clock. Do you want a sport, or do you want WWE drama is the real question. The silliness of
"overtime" and what comes along with it has desensitized me to legit great finishes (like debris cautions with 10 to go.)
 
Regardless of what NASCAR does someone will figure out how to game it.

It could go back to finishing under caution ‘n race control would game it by tossin’ a caution for a car bouncin’ off the fence in this race and in an identical situation not in the next.
 
StandOnIt said:
nope, it isn't the first time and on the other side of the coin, they have had wrecks and held off on throwing the yellow until they crossed the finish line so they didn't finish under yellow..and that is ok? Doesn't make any sense can't run it out because of a line and then you get past it and wreck and you can finish under green? Gives me a headache just thinking about it.
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I think the size of the track has a lot to do with it.. The only time I can think of when they crossed the overtime line, wrecked, and finished under green was at Talladega no? I may be wrong but regardless you can't stay green when there's like 10 cars piled up on the backstretch of a short track.

I imagine these calls aren't as easy to make on the fly as many fans tend to assume it is. They have about 2-5 seconds to think when it happens.. they're not going to run through every precendence set every time something happens, that's just unrealistic to think they would be able to do and I'd be willing to bet there's not many(if any) members on here that could do better. (..but don't tell them I said that ;) ) lol
 
If a caution can't be cleared before the advertised distance just end the race like a rain out. Otherwise do one GWC with no overtime line - next flag ends the race (I don't think drivers should get multiple attempts to beat the leader). I don't want to watch cars parading around under yellow waiting for the leaders to run out of gas.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
You'de be harder pressed to find something to not complain about than you would be finding more issues with NASCARs rules.

I like the way that have it now.

..is this not the first time a wreck occurred after the over timeline had been crossed? ..and already it's an issue.. come on.
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100%. Well said.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Team that calculates the fuel correctly wins :idunno:
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To calculate something you need to know the variables. That's not calculation, just guess work.

I don't like how NASCAR's bent toward entertainment over sport has succeeded in convincing so many fans of things like a) races should never be boring, meaning they must be manipulated to be closer and b) races should never finish under caution, even if 'solving' that 'problem' results in far more random winners.
 
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