Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Naitch said:
It is racing, you don’t just agree with it. The point system is an arbitrary value assigned to performance in racing. The Latford system was also flawed and some of the systems before it were even wackier than what we have now. If one system is a game show then so are all of them are.
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My solution to make winner matter more, and to have full season points. Just give then winner more points. Make it impossible for anyone to even get the same amount as then winner. Whatever the max 2nd place can get, give then winner 15-20 points extra.

So say we keep the current format. We can say Ross wins stage 1 and stage 2. That's 20 points. Then he finishes 2nd, that's 35 more points. Plus he has the fastest lap... 1 more point for a total of 56 points....so if I'm doing this right the max points day 2nd can have is 56 points.

So winning should net you at least 71 points.. tbh maybe 75 or 80 tbh. If we go 80. The maximum points day if you just completely cook all day. Win stage 1 and 2 plus the fastest lap. Will be 101 points, with second in this case, the maximum he could get would be 53. 35 for second plus 2nd in two stages for 18 points.
 
Revman said:
That is really a great perspective. I mean that, and I don't disagree, but how do you sell that? How does NASCAR get its Super Bowl moment? It deserves it IMO.
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See the difference between NASCAR and other sports like baseball, football, basketball, etc is that every single race every single team competing for the championship is out there. You have 36 weeks to prove why you're the best. Football. Hell you might play a team in the season who you didn't see once during the season. Baseball, you could play a team who was competitive with you all season. Same with basketball.

You know what makes the 1992 Championship race special? It happened naturally. If you force it, in a sport that doesn't need a playoff to prove who the best is, because you're racing against the best every single week of the season, it doesn't feel so special. Imagine how awesome it would be going into the last race, having 2 or 3 drivers who from the drop of the green flag in Daytona to rolling into Homestead, or Phoenix, or wherever the last race is who were just so damn good any of them could win the championship because it just naturally happened that way. That's way better than just some forced game 7 moment.


What makes Game 7 moments special in Baseball and Basketball is the fact both teams played so good, and at such a high level, that they needed that last game to crown a champion. That's what I want in NASCAR, if someone wins with a few races to go, so be it, they were damn well good enough to do it. It happens.
 
Blaze said:
See the difference between NASCAR and other sports like baseball, football, basketball, etc is that every single race every single team competing for the championship is out there. You have 36 weeks to prove why you're the best. Football. Hell you might play a team in the season who you didn't see once during the season. Baseball, you could play a team who was competitive with you all season. Same with basketball.

You know what makes the 1992 Championship race special? It happened naturally. If you force it, in a sport that doesn't need a playoff to prove who the best is, because you're racing against the best every single week of the season, it doesn't feel so special. Imagine how awesome it would be going into the last race, having 2 or 3 drivers who from the drop of the green flag in Daytona to rolling into Homestead, or Phoenix, or wherever the last race is who were just so damn good any of them could win the championship because it just naturally happened that way. That's way better than just some forced game 7 moment.


What makes Game 7 moments special in Baseball and Basketball is the fact both teams played so good, and at such a high level, that they needed that last game to crown a champion. That's what I want in NASCAR, if someone wins with a few races to go, so be it, they were damn well good enough to do it. It happens.
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Good points. That doesn't happen in game shows..it always goes down to the final round. Don't get me started on the way stick n ball does things. I think Nascar has surpassed that whole thing with a tournament inside a tournament this year.
 
Revman said:
That is really a great perspective. I mean that, and I don't disagree, but how do you sell that? How does NASCAR get its Super Bowl moment? It deserves it IMO.
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We disagree on the necessity of a Super Bowl moment. Other racing series are okay with the possibility of having their championship's decided before the final race. (Incidentally, I admit to liking the term 'Super Bowl moment' better than 'Game 7 moment', since most playoff series never reach a seventh game.)

But if you must have playoffs, I'll quote from my post #27 back in August of last year, with a few clarifications.
  • 30 race regular season. 10 playoff races are too many. A longer regular season give the cream more time to rise.
  • Race winner gets 75 total points regardless of stage points. Everyone else, same race and stage points as now. Second place could get no more than a max of 56, as @Blaze calculated above. No playoff points; they aren't necessary if race winners get the most points, and a parallel points system is confusing.
  • After first 30 races, top five in points are championship eligible. No 'win and you're in.' No chickens#!t teams eligible. No seeding. Networks get to keep their 'cut line drama' but with far fewer teams to focus on, so maybe they'll spend some time on the rest of the field. Or not...
  • Champion is crowned based on points accumulated over final six races.
So there's a playoff season to keep the networks happy. It's short enough to ensure no one runs away with it every year. It's easy to explain to your friends.
 
Blaze said:
See the difference between NASCAR and other sports like baseball, football, basketball, etc is that every single race every single team competing for the championship is out there. You have 36 weeks to prove why you're the best.
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This. This has been the biggest point against playoffs from Day One. An NFL team may face only half the other teams, one at time, on its way to the championship. A playoff is the only practical way to determine a champion if you aren't going to play every one. NASCAR teams face all the other cars every single week. If you consistently beat everyone else, it's obvious who's best. (It's also why an 'All Star race' is a misnomer, but that's another drum of Valvoline.)

Playoffs in motorsports also can't account for intentional or accidental interference by non-playoff teams still competing for final season positions.
 
It's been beat to death about the insanity of trying to assimilate Nascar into a Football playoff system. It has proven a dismal failure. Why do people keep trying to do so? Polishing a turd is still a turd.
 
StandOnIt said:
Too late ol buddy, they doubled down with a tournament inside a tournament. But we keep fighting the good fight.
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Separate punch bowl, separate turd. Another attempt to force a format designed for playing one opponent at a time onto a sport where everyone races everyone else, with no allowance for the effects of those outside not caring if they affect those who are in.

But at least it will have no effects on the championship. I think it's long-term existence will depend entirely on how much action it generates for whichever online gambling outfit is sponsoring this.
 
Naitch said:
The in season tournament is kind of like the old No Bull 5. It’s a diversion but one you can easily ignore if it isn’t your thing.
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Boy, there's a blast from the past!

But yeah, I like your comparison. Hopefully it will be like the Xfinity series' Dash for Cash. The Gerbils froth but it has little effect on the actual racing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Boy, there's a blast from the past!

But yeah, I like your comparison. Hopefully it will be like the Xfinity series' Dash for Cash. The Gerbils froth but it has little effect on the actual racing.
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one can hope. Those had little effect on the racing and were simple to follow. This doesn't look that way to start.
 
Revman said:
Of course it is arguable. That is why we are here. You hate the stick and ball references, and I get that.....however, I will make the case that the Kansas City Chiefs had a Championship year until they got beat in the Championship. This is about what constitutes a racing champion. There are those (probably "a lot of us") who believe that it is a body of work over time. There are those (maybe "some of us") who believe that the best bring it when it matters the most. Who is wrong? Nobody. Who is right? Both. My vote....Pick a system, and then everybody STFU, and let's get back to talking about cars, strategy, and drivers.
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The critical mistake here is making the comparison to stick and ball sports with racing. It’s not one and the same, it’s an apples/oranges comparison. That’s why to me, having a playoff to crown a champion in racing because the NFL does it this way always seemed illogical .
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
The critical mistake here is making the comparison to stick and ball sports with racing.
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Why? I keep hearing that. You can't do that. Why not? Because "some of us" or "most of us" don't approve? Again, why do 45K show up in Phoenix? Idiots? Don't understand the sport? Not true fans? What the **** is wrong with us?
 
Revman said:
Why? I keep hearing that. You can't do that. Why not? Because "some of us" or "most of us" don't approve? Again, why do 45K show up in Phoenix? Idiots? Don't understand the sport? Not true fans? What the **** is wrong with us?
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nonsense. Why do racing fans show up at any track? To look at each other?? Lol.
 
Revman said:
Why? I keep hearing that. You can't do that. Why not? Because "some of us" or "most of us" don't approve? Again, why do 45K show up in Phoenix? Idiots? Don't understand the sport? Not true fans? What the **** is wrong with us?
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Because quite simply they’re different sports.
 
Revman said:
If they are showing up, what's the problem? There isn't one.
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Probably should look at the decline in viewership for the last 4 "championship" races. This playoff nonsense is not the ratings bonanza some like to think it is.

  • Both years saw viewership below 3 million, consistent with NASCAR’s trend of averaging fewer than 3 million viewers per season for the fourth time on record.

  • The 2024 season benefited from a 5% playoff viewership increase and strong performances from star drivers like Logano and Blaney, but the championship race itself didn’t see significant growth, possibly due to competition from other sports or fan adjustment to broadcast schedules.

  • The 2023 race faced comparisons to the 2022 finale (3.213 million) and earlier years at Homestead-Miami (3.74 million in 2019), showing a gradual decline.
 
StandOnIt said:
Probably should look at the decline in viewership for the last 4 "championship" races. This playoff nonsense is not the ratings bonanza some like to think it is.

  • Both years saw viewership below 3 million, consistent with NASCAR’s trend of averaging fewer than 3 million viewers per season for the fourth time on record.

  • The 2024 season benefited from a 5% playoff viewership increase and strong performances from star drivers like Logano and Blaney, but the championship race itself didn’t see significant growth, possibly due to competition from other sports or fan adjustment to broadcast schedules.

  • The 2023 race faced comparisons to the 2022 finale (3.213 million) and earlier years at Homestead-Miami (3.74 million in 2019), showing a gradual decline.
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Or people could care less. You would expect a championship race to bring in big number..you like to compare to stick n ball. They have big numbers for their championships usually.
 
antman12 said:
No thanks to a street course in Philly
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I always thought street courses were my least favorite type of top-tier track. Then I was introduced to stadium circuits. At least a street course will accommodate a full 36 cars at the same time, with space for competitive green-flag pit stops.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't think Wallace has his sh^*t right. I believe in the article it said a football stadium.
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I started to to raise that point earlier. Since I wasn't going to listen to his program to get to the relevant portion, I thought I'd keep my mouth shut instead of pulling another Hocevar.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't think Wallace has his sh^*t right. I believe in the article it said a football stadium.
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Franklin Field on the campus of UPenn…the oldest college football stadium still in operation, but probably more well-known for the Penn Relays track & field event each year. That additional space occupied by the track around the field could afford NASCAR a chance to throw down a race course like they did at the Coliseum, which itself has an extensive T&F history.
 
Naitch said:
I don’t disagree. My only point is that being a Cup Champion is still the pinnacle of stock car racing. It’s far from a meaningless joke to the guys competing for it.
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Another part of the discussion that Dale had on his show this week. The drivers still feel it’s the highlight and crowning achievement of their careers, but acknowledge that it isn’t quite as valued or cherished as championships of the past. Joey Logano, for instance, is obviously a great and very accomplished driver. It’s almost impossible, though, to hold his titles in the same light as those of another three-time champion such as Darrell Waltrip.
 
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Revman said:
Why? I keep hearing that. You can't do that. Why not? Because "some of us" or "most of us" don't approve? Again, why do 45K show up in Phoenix? Idiots? Don't understand the sport? Not true fans? What the **** is wrong with us?
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I broke it all down for you, and you chose to ignore it..

Right here..

Blaze said:
See the difference between NASCAR and other sports like baseball, football, basketball, etc is that every single race every single team competing for the championship is out there. You have 36 weeks to prove why you're the best. Football. Hell you might play a team in the season who you didn't see once during the season. Baseball, you could play a team who was competitive with you all season. Same with basketball.

You know what makes the 1992 Championship race special? It happened naturally. If you force it, in a sport that doesn't need a playoff to prove who the best is, because you're racing against the best every single week of the season, it doesn't feel so special. Imagine how awesome it would be going into the last race, having 2 or 3 drivers who from the drop of the green flag in Daytona to rolling into Homestead, or Phoenix, or wherever the last race is who were just so damn good any of them could win the championship because it just naturally happened that way. That's way better than just some forced game 7 moment.


What makes Game 7 moments special in Baseball and Basketball is the fact both teams played so good, and at such a high level, that they needed that last game to crown a champion. That's what I want in NASCAR, if someone wins with a few races to go, so be it, they were damn well good enough to do it. It happens.
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My vote for a street race would be at the Meadowlands. There's two major highways that border the property which could be used in addition to numerous access roads and a very large parking lot to the west of MetLife Stadium.

Here was the layout when IndyCar, IMSA and CART ran there from the mid-80s to the early 90s.

USA_Meadowlands_1988.jpg
 
We post stuff like that over at this thread
racing-forums.com

2026 NASCAR Schedule

Which part, the 'no Fontana short track', 'San Diego' (Long Beach, I assume), or 'Willow Springs'? Me, I doubt any of them will be on a Cup points schedule in a year beginning '202x'. I think I'm with ya. It's crazy Cup isnt racing in a market where one of their most current successful drivers...
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