so what is going to be the new points system?

Jorge De Guzman said:
That was a hell of a take. Brian Z France and The Steve’s would be so proud. That’s fan engagement that puts a smile on their face.
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I don't think that anybody really understands what the last 10 weeks will look like without the playoff conversation. My take is that the hardcore fans will watch like we always do....accept the system for what it is......and be just fine. The assumption is that the format didn't attract the casual fan. I think we will find out when football starts, and the final 10 races become more of what the whole season looked like....but with football as an option. Should be interesting. I sincerely hope it works out. Doesn't change **** for me....I am already booked for Phoenix in the fall.
 
Revman said:
I don't think the system screwed Denny.....in fact, I feel like Denny's approach and domination until the end is proof that if you put this sport in the driver's hands....and they want to work and are talented enough, they can be successful even in spite of an unreasonable system. While NASCAR was given fuel for change over the ending, it could have easily gone the other way and proven that drivers and teams are capable of great things in a pressure situation......and I really don't care about which system was chosen. Have gone on record here saying that I would just like fans to be happy. I think that Mark is in love with the attention....and probably doesn't understand that there are likely many fans who don't care and don't rant on social media....kinda like me.....who also understand that there will be bitching about this system when Chase Elliott doesn't win it....or they will move on to complaining about the car. Trolling.....total BS and whatever.....I think that as much could be said who lap up what Mark says like a kitty to milk because he is who he is. I couldn't care less that he is a former driver. He doesn't pay my bill to get to the race....and while you mention Junior...I think his approach was much more appropriate....and he reach is a hell of a lot farther than Mark's.
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I don’t have a strong opinion, but I understand where @Revman is coming from. Agree Jr’s approach is/was balanced and that Martin was kinda screechy on this stuff (as is/was Kenny Wallace). Bottom line is the new Chase, much like the old Chase, and the best compromise the current era will get.
 
Revman said:
What is your point? I had no problem with the previous system, and the new one will be just fine. I am flattered that you remember what I post. I remember little of what you do.
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Find a backbone at least. So the new system is fine now all of a sudden?
 
Conover said:
I don’t have a strong opinion, but I understand where @Revman is coming from. Agree Jr’s approach is/was balanced and that Martin was kinda screechy on this stuff (as is/was Kenny Wallace). Bottom line is the new Chase, much like the old Chase, and the best compromise the current era will get.
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Do you actually think anything would have changed without someone like Mark kicking and screaming? I highly doubt it
 
Last year the ridiculousness of the playoffs and the stick n ball brackets or whatever they call it came glaringly to light when Zilisch in the Xfinity series was robbed out of what he earned, Heim in the Trucks barely won by the skin of his teeth following two years of getting screwed out of his championships that he deserved, and we had the press going full out on the Hamlin drama and that blew up in their faces. I got the win, the trophy and the money became a joke in that system. More and more fans were getting fed up with it every year, band-aid on top of band-aid made it more gimmicky and complicated and it was an insult to the sport of motor racing.
 
Revman said:
I don't think the system screwed Denny.....in fact, I feel like Denny's approach and domination until the end is proof that if you put this sport in the driver's hands....
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see that's where you lost me, many times it was shown in the playoffs, Driver's fate was not in the their hands. Kevin Harvick parking his car at Talladega to advance out and robbing someone else of an advancement to the next round is just one of many examples I can list. There were pressure situations because the clown show system caused them and again there's many examples of that over 10 years. I had no problem with a driver the status of Mark using his said status to call attention to the BS Clown Show to get real change going. And before you or anyone else says "well the drivers competed under the same rules the entire time" Yes in fact thats correct, but that doesn't mean there weren't 10 years worth of $hitty rules used to crown a champion.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
see that's where you lost me, many times it was shown in the playoffs, Driver's fate was not in the their hands. Kevin Harvick parking his car at Talladega to advance out and robbing someone else of an advancement to the next round is just one of many examples I can list. There were pressure situations because the clown show system caused them and again there's many examples of that over 10 years. I had no problem with a driver the status of Mark using his said status to call attention to the BS Clown Show to get real change going. And before you or anyone else says "well the drivers competed under the same rules the entire time" Yes in fact thats correct, but that doesn't mean there weren't 10 years worth of $hitty rules used to crown a champion.
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He's never read the Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Just substitute ****** rules for $hitty laws. We the fans won one in this case. It took what it took, some of the losers are taking it hard but Mark Martin was the only one who had the courage to speak up in the meeting and at first was swept under the table by Nascar and the media. Support from Jr and others came later but like he said, it was the fans (us) that he listened to that got the ball rolling.


The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll agree that one has a moral responsibility to change unjust laws. Simply disobeying them won't accomplish that.

Boy, this sucker has really taken some turns.
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Maybe you need to read a little further.

A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:


Matt Kenseth: looking for attention
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I whole heartedly agree with what Kenseth said and don't think for a minute that he was merely "looking for attention."

Back in the day, when opportunities to watch a race on broadcast TV were often few and far between, the attraction was the hard fought, on-track competition among drivers on race day along with "simply watching (to see) who wins."

Driver point standings might be found in the local paper if you looked hard enough but the season championship was only an after thought.

If that line of thinking warrants an "OK, Boomer" response, then so be it.
 
pjmolo said:
I whole heartedly agree with what Kenseth said and don't think for a minute that he was merely "looking for attention."

Back in the day, when opportunities to watch a race on broadcast TV were often few and far between, the attraction was the hard fought, on-track competition among drivers on race day along with "simply watching (to see) who wins."

Driver point standings might be found in the local paper if you looked hard enough but the season championship was only an after thought.

If that line of thinking warrants an "OK, Boomer" response, then so be it.
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In my opinion this is still the case. I wonder how long it is going to take before the new wears off on this latest playoff thing. It's not as glaring, but it's a distraction to the racing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Maybe you need to read a little further.

A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St. Thomas Aquinas: An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.
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What in the actual **** is going on here?
 
StandOnIt said:
Find a backbone at least. So the new system is fine now all of a sudden?
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I freaking have never had--and will never have--a problem with the freaking system! I like the racing...and no system is perfect.
 
StandOnIt said:
He's never read the Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Just substitute ****** rules for $hitty laws. We the fans won one in this case. It took what it took, some of the losers are taking it hard but Mark Martin was the only one who had the courage to speak up in the meeting and at first was swept under the table by Nascar and the media. Support from Jr and others came later but like he said, it was the fans (us) that he listened to that got the ball rolling.


The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
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I guess Monday was also Mark Martin Luther King Day.
 
Revman said:
I freaking have never had--and will never have--a problem with the freaking system! I like the racing...and no system is perfect.
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Don't have a problem with who wins the championship right? I think I'll nominate Mark Martin for the '26 Champ.

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StandOnIt said:
Don't have a problem with who wins the championship right? I think I'll nominate Mark Martin for the '26 Champ.

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When have I ever been critical of the champion? I will help you. Never. I try to refrain from trolling accusations, but you make it impossible. It is okay to be critical of somebody--even a former driver and almost champion--when they try to dictate the future of the sport I spend my hard earned money watching....and why do you keep quoting my take on the championship? I stand behind what I said. There is nothing about what will happen in a few weeks at the Super Bowl that guarantees the winner will have had the best season or is the best team. I know, I know....you hate stick and ball references. Most (I can use that reference too) believe that this society has a short attention span. So, we think that the casual fan will be more engaged with this new system? .....and let's talk about interest over a full season championship.....What Marky is doing here is kind of like what golf (stick and ball I know, but stick with me Sparky) does in my opinion .....he is making the sport exclusive---if you liked the playoffs, you aren't a real fan kind of thing, and you don't understand the sport....therefore, you are not welcome here. Golf is the same thing....a set of rules and stuff which is understood only by golfers. I know that you were all geared up to have Denny win, and then tear down the accomplishment alll off season. Sorry for you that this didn't happen (and me for that matter), but joining Marky's army in the fight against some non-existent establishment that wants a playoff type of format is hard to watch. Nobody is fighting. Nobody is winning. This has been a search to appease a fanbase that will literally never be appeased. The "new" system which is so laughable because we have already done this will only be sustainable to hard core fans IMO.....and as Marky continues his stupid "fight," he might just get the full season championship he is hanging his reputation on.....and then, the sport will be reserved only for those who truly understand....Marky and his followers.
 
Wonder why you don't hear this constant ranting about formats, cars, and literally everything in F1...or other series. Interesting. Meanwhile, F1 popularity skyrockets....and it is hard to argue that the racing is suspect when there is literally no passing and winning is reserved for the few. Maybe the sport isn't the problem? Maybe the fans are. As GR enters F1, I will be watching, and rooting for MY guys to finish in the Top 10....and that will be fine with me. Not so in NASCAR for many (another @StandOnIt metric). Interesting. Very interesting.
 
Revman said:
When have I ever been critical of the champion? I will help you. Never. I try to refrain from trolling accusations, but you make it impossible. It is okay to be critical of somebody--even a former driver and almost champion--when they try to dictate the future of the sport I spend my hard earned money watching....and why do you keep quoting my take on the championship? I stand behind what I said. There is nothing about what will happen in a few weeks at the Super Bowl that guarantees the winner will have had the best season or is the best team. I know, I know....you hate stick and ball references. Most (I can use that reference too) believe that this society has a short attention span. So, we think that the casual fan will be more engaged with this new system? .....and let's talk about interest over a full season championship.....What Marky is doing here is kind of like what golf (stick and ball I know, but stick with me Sparky) does in my opinion .....he is making the sport exclusive---if you liked the playoffs, you aren't a real fan kind of thing, and you don't understand the sport....therefore, you are not welcome here. Golf is the same thing....a set of rules and stuff which is understood only by golfers. I know that you were all geared up to have Denny win, and then tear down the accomplishment alll off season. Sorry for you that this didn't happen (and me for that matter), but joining Marky's army in the fight against some non-existent establishment that wants a playoff type of format is hard to watch. Nobody is fighting. Nobody is winning. This has been a search to appease a fanbase that will literally never be appeased. The "new" system which is so laughable because we have already done this will only be sustainable to hard core fans IMO.....and as Marky continues his stupid "fight," he might just get the full season championship he is hanging his reputation on.....and then, the sport will be reserved only for those who truly understand....Marky and his followers.
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That's a twisted outlook. You lost. No amount of character assassination or twists and turns you can provide is going to change that. Time to move on.
 
Revman said:
When have I ever been critical of the champion? I will help you. Never. I try to refrain from trolling accusations, but you make it impossible. It is okay to be critical of somebody--even a former driver and almost champion--when they try to dictate the future of the sport I spend my hard earned money watching....and why do you keep quoting my take on the championship? I stand behind what I said. There is nothing about what will happen in a few weeks at the Super Bowl that guarantees the winner will have had the best season or is the best team. I know, I know....you hate stick and ball references. Most (I can use that reference too) believe that this society has a short attention span. So, we think that the casual fan will be more engaged with this new system? .....and let's talk about interest over a full season championship.....What Marky is doing here is kind of like what golf (stick and ball I know, but stick with me Sparky) does in my opinion .....he is making the sport exclusive---if you liked the playoffs, you aren't a real fan kind of thing, and you don't understand the sport....therefore, you are not welcome here. Golf is the same thing....a set of rules and stuff which is understood only by golfers. I know that you were all geared up to have Denny win, and then tear down the accomplishment alll off season. Sorry for you that this didn't happen (and me for that matter), but joining Marky's army in the fight against some non-existent establishment that wants a playoff type of format is hard to watch. Nobody is fighting. Nobody is winning. This has been a search to appease a fanbase that will literally never be appeased. The "new" system which is so laughable because we have already done this will only be sustainable to hard core fans IMO.....and as Marky continues his stupid "fight," he might just get the full season championship he is hanging his reputation on.....and then, the sport will be reserved only for those who truly understand....Marky and his followers.
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tl;dr
 
Revman said:
What Marky is doing here is kind of like what golf (stick and ball I know, but stick with me Sparky) does in my opinion .....he is making the sport exclusive---if you liked the playoffs, you aren't a real fan kind of thing, and you don't understand the sport....therefore, you are not welcome here. Golf is the same thing....a set of rules and stuff which is understood only by golfers.
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Legit LOL at the bolded part in the context of this discussion. Yes, Mark Martin is elitist because he is suggesting NASCAR have sound rules "and stuff" like golf, a sport where people who enjoy it understand how it is scored. This is good content.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Legit LOL at the bolded part in the context of this discussion. Yes, Mark Martin is elitist because he is suggesting NASCAR have sound rules "and stuff" like golf, a sport where people who enjoy it understand how it is scored. This is good content.
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Oh I think you are correct here. Has NASCAR given up on the new fan thing?
 
StandOnIt said:
That's a twisted outlook. You lost. No amount of character assassination or twists and turns you can provide is going to change that. Time to move on.
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Lost what? Are you Mark Martin? Was there a competition for something? Strange. No characters were assassinated in the production of my post.
 
Revman said:
Oh I think you are correct here. Has NASCAR given up on the new fan thing?
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This year, The Masters was viewed by 12.7 million people. The NASCAR finale was viewed by 2.77 million people. I'm willing to go on record and say that the average person finds golf scoring (composite score of each hole against par; lowest score wins) far easier to understand than any iteration of the NASCAR playoff points system has ever been. Young children can learn it playing putt-putt for god sakes.
 
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