The saga of Kyle Bush.

Thoroughly enjoying this point in Kyle’s career. Not many deserve it more than he does to run like this with that team especially. They deserve each other. I hope his only options after this year are maybe from Brad. Poetic justice IMO if his only step up was with RFK. As for Hendrick, yeah he gave Mark an opportunity to run in the best equipment but he LIKED Mark. And Mark respected him too. Big diff.
 
It seems that almost everyone is talking about Kyle Busch's ongoing struggle to compete in Nascar cup races... including Denny Hamlin in the current episode of his Actions Detrimental podcast. Personally, I don't do podcasts, but I did read Matt Weaver's article about Hambone's analysis. I think it's worth discussing because I believe Driver 48 and Driver 8 are the two big dominoes yet to fall of the 2027 silly season.

Denny Hamlin is at a loss for what’s happened to Kyle Busch​

The Joe Gibbs Racing lifer and 23XI owner says the downturn began while they were teammates

By Matt Weaver, Motorsport.com

On the latest episode of his Actions Detrimental podcast, Denny Hamlin ponders if the Kyle Busch era of NASCAR is over and actually has been longer than most within the community realize.

It’s been three years and 100 races since the two-time Cup Series champion last won at Gateway on June 4, 2023 and it has been a struggle ever since his first half season at Richard Childress Racing. Since then, teammate Austin Dillon has won back-to-back races at Richmond Raceway and Busch doesn’t exactly out run the No. 3 on a weekly basis these days either.

Hamlin offered that Busch should at least be outperforming Dillon by a significant margin and that’s just not happening.

“We keep talking about this but the last couple of years (at Joe Gibbs Racing) was not good; it’s been like this for five years,” Hamlin said. “You’re a Hall of Fame Mount Rushmore driver and if you’re of the greatest, then carry better than your teammate that’s only won (six) races. I think he should be able to do that but it’s not happening.”

Hamlin said Busch ‘just doesn’t know how to consistently get speed out of the NextGen car,’ and that his three wins in 2023 came in an era where teams were still guessing on set-ups with this car. The parity has increased tremendously since then.

He said that drivers are now responsible for making the difference.

“This is just my opinion, and I can’t hold a helmet to Kyle Busch on talent, but I just think that this is not new,” Hamlin said. “He’s struggled for five years now so we just have to be honest about our expectations.

“If you’re expecting Kyle Busch to just go back to Victory Lane, you’re going to be very disappointed. I just think that, until we change the car or something changes, something has to change, and I have no idea. I’m not in his shoes. I’m not his crew chief. I’m not his engineer and I’m not his team owner. I’m not in the weeds. I’m just a podcaster that happens to be on the race track around him and I can say it’s not working. I don’t have the answers and I think we have to live in this reality for the time being.”

Hamlin wonders if Busch has reached the moment Jimmie Johnson did in 2017 where he went from winning the championship the year before and abruptly stopped being as competitive somewhere shortly afterwards.

“Sometimes the light switch goes off at different times. I don’t know.”

Hamlin doesn’t even know if there is a place for Busch outside of Richard Childress Racing after his contract ends this season. He’s not going back to Joe Gibbs Racing where he was a teammate of Hamlin from 2008 to 2022. Maybe Spire Motorsports could have an opening next year, but again, Hamlin says Busch cannot consistently best Dillon right now in equal cars.

He says Busch was not that good in the NextGen car in his last season at JGR either. Hamlin pondered if Busch is too ‘hands-on’ when it comes to set-up decisions. Instead of simply telling crew chief Jim Pohlman how the car is driving, Busch is offering specific set-up changes he wants.

“Maybe in the short term,” Hamlin said. “Maybe he just says ‘I am going to give you feedback and just drive the car’ because it’s the drivers job to send them in a direction but that doesn’t mean telling them what to change.”

Hamlin thinks Busch would be better served just focusing on how the car feels rather than simultaneously playing a crew chief – engineer role.

“So I don't know,” Hamlin said. “I genuinely don't like seeing one of the most polarizing and popular and talented guys in the sport running where he is at right now. But this is the new reality we have to set ourselves in until we see any kind of change.”

 
He says Busch was not that good in the NextGen car in his last season at JGR either.

Exactly from the post #82 above. He's never been good with this car, but of course everyone wants to blame RCR.

Last year he was on spin cycle all by himself at several of the races. Great drivers adapt.
 
Pretty sure everybody will blame everybody before this is through. I'll keep it going. Kyle does just fine in a Spire truck. They aren't noted for being close to the top of the Chevy food chain. RCR is though, gets the same info as Hendrick gets from the OEM. So I will continue to lean toward RCR as being a large part of the problem.
 
Pretty sure everybody will blame everybody before this is through. I'll keep it going. Kyle does just fine in a Spire truck. They aren't noted for being close to the top of the Chevy food chain. RCR is though, gets the same info as Hendrick gets from the OEM. So I will continue to lean toward RCR as being a large part of the problem.
They might get and share info, but they don't share everything. Listen to The Money Lap and they flat out said teams have tried to run the setup that was supposedly in the #5 car and it was undriveable
 
They might get and share info, but they don't share everything. Listen to The Money Lap and they flat out said teams have tried to run the setup that was supposedly in the #5 car and it was undriveable
I'm talking down force numbers from the OEM, simulator time, technical info etc. You are talking individual car setups?

BTW the topic is what's the problem with Busch/ RCR.
 
Pretty sure everybody will blame everybody before this is through. I'll keep it going. Kyle does just fine in a Spire truck. They aren't noted for being close to the top of the Chevy food chain....
Spire setups come directly from HMS, and Spire attests to this under oath in the Gibbs v. Gabehart litigation. But I've asked you before... how is a Truck Series win relevant to the observation that your man is floundering badly at the Cup Series level? Are you suggesting that Kyle Busch should focus solely on the trucks, hopefully snare a few wins there, and all will be well? I mean, that's one option he has, but I doubt even KDB would regard that as keeping his career intact as an elite Nascar driver.

BTW, Childress is highly successful at the O'Reilly level. And at the Cup level, they have exactly the same parts and pieces as HMS, assembled in exactly the same way. There are a limited number of setup variables, and as Hamlin pointed out, KDB is known to dictate how those adjustments are applied to his car. So how is that on RCR if the setup doesn't work?

It's just my opinion, but I believe Hamlin nailed it when he said, in this NextGen era of extreme parity, the driver has to make the difference.
 
Kyle fell off the cliff when COVID first eliminated practice. I'm not sure if Denny missed that or if it was left out of Weaver's summary.
Nascar has broken practice at the Cup side into two groups for a grand total of around 20, 25 minutes. . The other 2 series gets a full 50 minutes. The Cup drivers have time to feel out the car to see if everything works, run a few laps, maybe come in for one adjustment. Cup teams have to hit the track off the truck with the right adjustments.

Another thing. What came out at the MJ trial was Childress was trying to sell part of the team. It looks like the deal fell thru, but it makes a person wonder how long that has been going on and did the rumor circulate among the workers at the shop?
 
Nascar has broken practice at the Cup side into two groups for a grand total of around 20, 25 minutes. . The other 2 series gets a full 50 minutes. The Cup drivers have time to feel out the car to see if everything works, run a few laps, maybe come in for one adjustment. Cup teams have to hit the track off the truck with the right adjustments.
Yep, the restored-but-shortened practices haven't been enough time for Kyle to get the feel he's after, either with Gibbs or Childress. Longer O'Reilly practices are another reason he should go for that title and be the first driver to have all three national series belts. Swap seats with Love or Hill; RCR's O'Reilly program is better than its Cup.
 
Yep, the restored-but-shortened practices haven't been enough time for Kyle to get the feel he's after, either with Gibbs or Childress. Longer O'Reilly practices are another reason he should go for that title and be the first driver to have all three national series belts. Swap seats with Love or Hill; RCR's O'Reilly program is better than its Cup.
He has an Xfinity title. Said he would quit when he had 100 wins. Made it to 102. He said he wants to get 100 wins in the Truck series. He's 18 wins away from that. I think he has his work cut out for him. Times change. These youngsters are born with a steering wheel in their hands these days.
I don't think it is a good fit at RCR from both sides myself. Personalities/ego's are complicated.

Watching Cleetus's tour of RCR, it's a good 'ol boys shop. They loved Cleetus BTW he fit right in. It appears to be tight nit group, many long time employees. Childress's office has stuffed heads everywhere, guns etc. IDK, Kyle Busch doesn't seem that type to me, but what do I know. Just guessing like Hambone at this point.
 
He has an Xfinity title. Said he would quit when he had 100 wins. Made it to 102. He said he wants to get 100 wins in the Truck series. He's 18 wins away from that. I think he has his work cut out for him. Times change. These youngsters are born with a steering wheel in their hands these days.
I don't think it is a good fit at RCR from both sides myself. Personalities/ego's are complicated.

Watching Cleetus's tour of RCR, it's a good 'ol boys shop. They loved Cleetus BTW he fit right in. It appears to be tight nit group, many long time employees. Childress's office has stuffed heads everywhere, guns etc. IDK, Kyle Busch doesn't seem that type to me, but what do I know. Just guessing like Hambone at this point.
Thought it was interesting when Denny said that he bet Kyle wishes he had his decision to leave to do all over again. The mouths that say was forced out need to take note. His ego took him to RCR---can't blame him, but it has been costly.
 
Exactly from the post #82 above. He's never been good with this car, but of course everyone wants to blame RCR.

Last year he was on spin cycle all by himself at several of the races. Great drivers adapt.
You're right, he's not a great driver /sarcasm
 
At Kansas at Cup practice. RCR cars.
Both cars hovering on a half a second slower on a track where pure speed matters.
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Thought it was interesting when Denny said that he bet Kyle wishes he had his decision to leave to do all over again. The mouths that say was forced out need to take note. His ego took him to RCR---can't blame him, but it has been costly.
Well none of us know what the offer was, but knowing RCR has far less money than JGR one would have to imagine the JGR offer was so low that the RCR offer was even attractive.
 
Well none of us know what the offer was, but knowing RCR has far less money than JGR one would have to imagine the JGR offer was so low that the RCR offer was even attractive.
How do you know that Poor Richard has less than JGR?....and one could imagine that the JGR offer was low in comparison to some who were already under contract, and Kyle was butt hurt over that--Is this not possible?
 
How do you know that Poor Richard has less than JGR?....and one could imagine that the JGR offer was low in comparison to some who were already under contract, and Kyle was butt hurt over that--Is this not possible?
What the story is from both the preacher and Kyle Busch, in print from legitimatized trusted sources, journalists that have to abide by certain rules, using direct quotes by those involved not some second hand hearsay from an under educated click bait clown in a closet with a microphone is they (ol' Joe) thought they had Oracle to replace M&M's, and he quit looking against the wishes of Kyle. Oracle left (surprise!) and they (Joe and Kyle) couldn't find one in such short notice. Bumbling Joe offered to run Kyle out of his own pocket uncharted.
This is me talking here...Who knowing ol' knife in the back Joe has an open charter behind to go race unchartered out of Joe's pocket? How long would it take to move young Ty working for peanuts in to fill that charter?
 
What the story is from both the preacher and Kyle Busch, in print from legitimatized trusted sources, journalists that have to abide by certain rules, using direct quotes by those involved not some second hand hearsay from an under educated click bait clown in a closet with a microphone is they (ol' Joe) thought they had Oracle to replace M&M's, and he quit looking against the wishes of Kyle. Oracle left (surprise!) and they (Joe and Kyle) couldn't find one in such short notice. Bumbling Joe offered to run Kyle out of his own pocket uncharted.
This is me talking here...Who knowing ol' knife in the back Joe has an open charter behind to go race unchartered out of Joe's pocket? How long would it take to move young Ty working for peanuts in to fill that charter?
So, they quit looking is from one of this legit sources....and that they were going to run unchartered....again from those sources? The Oracle part is legit....the rest of it is your spin....Regardless, it turned out to be a great move because Kyle can't drive this car....and to Denny's point was starting to suck with the previous gen.
 
If he can't practice, then he needs to figure out how the sim translates, and quit using practice as an excuse.
I don't know that he's blamed the lack of practice for his poor performance. That's just my theory.

I don't know much about Cup-level simulators. Can the team learn how to set up a specific physical car for conditions that may not be known until race weekend? How far in advance do teams learn which tire compounds will be brought? Temperatures, humidity, and wind are tough to predict.
 
Kyle fell off the cliff when COVID first eliminated practice. I'm not sure if Denny missed that or if it was left out of Weaver's summary.

The practice thing always threw me. Limited practice hurt him - sure, we can say being able to communicate and get the car dialed in made him great, but why does Kyle NEED practice and others don't?


Also, Kyle fell off in 2019. He was consistent, scored most points, and won the championship but his performance really started to fade the second half of the year. If not for MTJ and Denny's pit road issues at Homestead in the finale, KB is a 1x champ.
 
If he can't practice, then he needs to figure out how the sim translates, and quit using practice as an excuse.

It is in excuse. Kyle started to fall off in year 15-16, like all the greats do.

Kyle is one of the 8-12 best to ever do it, who, like all other recent greats except Gordon, Harvick and Denny, fell off around year 15. Thats all there is to it. Great career, great drivers who fell off when great drivers usually do.

Mark Martin talked about this. His 98 season, his 09 season were amongst the best of his career, but mentally, processing speed, car control, he said 89 was probably the best he's ever been.
 
I posted this yesterday. First group practice times.
1776609549092.png

Add in the second group practice to the first. 29th fastest, almost a second slower than the leader. Somebody tell me how a car that much slower than the field is going to do well and it is Kyle's fault it is so slow.

1776609683428.png



23rd in qualifying over a half of a second slower than the leader. Somebody tell me it's the driver not the car at Kansas speedway?
QUALIFYING.
1776609934740.png


Look at the numbers people. BTW Austin is even slower...no surprise.
 
Remember. Those are the cars RCR showed up at the track with. They are that far off. How you going to fix that with 20 minutes of practice?
 
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