If Kyle Larson is the greatest driver in the world

If Larson doesn't make the Final 4, it changes nothing in my eyes about him as a competitor and makes it more likely he races dirt sooner. Reddick seems like a nice guy and all but he's been isolated to racing stock cars alone for years and that doesn't get you credited in the fashion of someone who races more than one thing for me. He's not even the best stock car driver in my eyes since I don't consider the Cup title the sole relevant indicator of how good someone is at racing these cars.
 
Or you could just watch him run up against the fence.

He’s one of several I think we’re lucky to have.
 
I guess I don’t subscribe to the dirt worship ideology. If you want to see the best drivers, look at the top of the disciplines, regardless of whether it’s dirt or asphalt, oval or road course.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I guess I don’t subscribe to the dirt worship ideology. If you want to see the best drivers, look at the top of the disciplines, regardless of whether it’s dirt or asphalt, oval or road course.
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You are in the right thread then. Larson has twice as many wins as anybody else, more stage wins than anybody, and playoff points also.
 
Spotter22 said:
You don't pull the reins on a racehorse
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Perhaps, but I have always idolized Foyt and Mears and Al Unser and Pearson and Gordon and Johnson, guys that knew how to win as often as they could, and run top five when they couldn't. Win one week and stuff it in the fence the next is not my style. I'm not Clyde Torkel.
 
Formerjackman said:
Perhaps, but I have always idolized Foyt and Mears and Al Unser and Pearson and Gordon and Johnson, guys that knew how to win as often as they could, and run top five when they couldn't. Win one week and stuff it in the fence the next is not my style. I'm not Clyde Torkel.
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That isn't happening. Larson has twice as many wins as every playoff driver. I'd say he is winning when he could.
 
Formerjackman said:
Perhaps, but I have always idolized Foyt and Mears and Al Unser and Pearson and Gordon and Johnson, guys that knew how to win as often as they could, and run top five when they couldn't. Win one week and stuff it in the fence the next is not my style. I'm not Clyde Torkel.
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They didn't run under this system and with the aero on the Gen 7 and the possibilities of getting stalled out you have to make your move when you can. He saw a shot and took it, nothing wrong with that, Its in his DNA. Ya know....a winner
 
I think Larson exemplifies this quote perfectly, Senna’s quote “If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver” encourages drivers to be opportunistic and seize openings when they arise. It’s not a call for reckless driving but rather an expression of the competitive spirit and willingness to push the limits of what’s possible in racing.
 
Daytripper said:
I think only 2016 was under the current format but none of his championships came under total season points, they were all in the playoffs era.
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I recalled most of them were under the '10 race total points' format. I think that format, like the 'Full season total points', awards consistency.
 
I was told people didn't like "points racing" and wanted to do away with it through whatever means possible.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Ok so as much as I think Larson is a little overrated(I will not explain this opinion lol) Reddick making one badass pass(same pass Joey made on Truex in 2018) doesn't bring him anywhere close to this conversation lol.. he's not even among the top 5 in the cup series alone imo.. let alone "racing" in general.
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So my boy Sliced has no fear of the 45 in Phoenix? Okay then. Shots fired. I like it.
 
StandOnIt said:
You are in the right thread then. Larson has twice as many wins as anybody else, more stage wins than anybody, and playoff points also.
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Yeah, you are setting up for Larson to not be a part of the 4. The cool thing about this system is that the wheel is in Larson's hands. He knows what he needs to do, and he has the car/ability to do it. Now, go do it. To me, that's what a champion is....and he is a champion, so I know WE will be racing him in Phoenix.
 
Spotter22 said:
They didn't run under this system and with the aero on the Gen 7 and the possibilities of getting stalled out you have to make your move when you can. He saw a shot and took it, nothing wrong with that, Its in his DNA. Ya know....a winner
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Also keep in mind that if the 5 team doesn't get Kyle out of the pits first at Phoenix, he has ZERO championships. Tell me his way is the right way after he has won a couple of these.
 
Formerjackman said:
Also keep in mind that if the 5 team doesn't get Kyle out of the pits first at Phoenix, he has ZERO championships. Tell me his way is the right way after he has won a couple of these.
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I dont base driver comparisons on championships anymore, with 1 race championship and something out of a driver's control like pit stop that can ruin an entire championship season, its hard for to make an argument about a driver's championship credentials. I think you can say a driver makes clutch moves on the track during competition or is clutch putting himself in the right position to challenge for a win, my point being is I like the way Larson races for all or nothing I noticed it since his rookie year in Cup and my brief times watching him race in Xfinity before Cup. With the casino championship format, what difference does it make anyway with his style, its all or nothing format anyway so his racing style just compliments it.
 
Hes a great driver but that move he pulled at homestead was boneheaded.

he could have been a bit patient and either won or finished second.

Aggression is great but you gotta pick the moment.
 
Formerjackman said:
Also keep in mind that if the 5 team doesn't get Kyle out of the pits first at Phoenix, he has ZERO championships. Tell me his way is the right way after he has won a couple of these.
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It's almost as if winning a title in the current era is disproportionately affected by singular events outside the driver's control due to the title being decided at a finale where the series has obviously applied pressure to request non-contending cars stay back and out of the way.
 
Mark said:
Hes a great driver but that move he pulled at homestead was boneheaded.

he could have been a bit patient and either won or finished second.

Aggression is great but you gotta pick the moment.
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That same aggression has brought him from the back many times to be in that spot
 
Formerjackman said:
Also keep in mind that if the 5 team doesn't get Kyle out of the pits first at Phoenix, he has ZERO championships. Tell me his way is the right way after he has won a couple of these.
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It isn't enough for a driver to win on their record. They have to win the jackpot round or all is lost to a driver with a lesser record.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I dont base driver comparisons on championships anymore, with 1 race championship and something out of a driver's control like pit stop that can ruin an entire championship season, its hard for to make an argument about a driver's championship credentials. I think you can say a driver makes clutch moves on the track during competition or is clutch putting himself in the right position to challenge for a win, my point being is I like the way Larson races for all or nothing I noticed it since his rookie year in Cup and my brief times watching him race in Xfinity before Cup. With the casino championship format, what difference does it make anyway with his style, its all or nothing format anyway so his racing style just compliments it.
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Again: I was told that we were supposed to be mad about/dislike/need to get away from points racing. So this guy doesn't points race and apparently that's a bad thing in a system that allegedly is supposed to favor and incentivize such behavior. What are we even doing here any more if the issue is that the guy wants to win too much?
 
virtualbalboa said:
Again: I was told that we were supposed to be mad about/dislike/need to get away from points racing. So this guy doesn't points race and apparently that's a bad thing in a system that allegedly is supposed to favor and incentivize such behavior. What are we even doing here any more if the issue is that the guy wants to win too much?
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its just madness all around I Tell ya
 
Well, I'll tell ya what. If Larson doesn't make the final show in their **** a meme points system, that is going to make a lot of people shall we say concerned? He's the main drawing card. The others don't move the needle.
 
A key part of being a champion in any discipline is performing when it counts. If you and your team **** up, you don’t get to blame the “lottery” or a “gimmick” or whatever the latest buzzword may be.
 
The Nature Boy said:
A key part of being a champion in any discipline is performing when it counts. If you and your team **** up, you don’t get to blame the “lottery” or a “gimmick” or whatever the latest buzzword may be.
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That make perfect sense if you want to watch a made for TV contest, but it is totally bogus if you want to see a legitimate Cup champion crowned.
 
StandOnIt said:
That make perfect sense if you want to watch a made for TV contest, but it is totally bogus if you want to see a legitimate Cup champion crowned.
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How is it bogus? It’s a fixed set of rules that everyone agrees to when they begin the season. A championship is legitimate when it follows a consistent and agreed upon set of rules.

You’re free to not like it but questioning its legitimacy is just silly.
 
StandOnIt said:
It isn't enough for a driver to win on their record. They have to win the jackpot round or all is lost to a driver with a lesser record.
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In order to win you have to give yourself a chance to win. Wrecking yourself repeatedly when you probably have the fastest car doesn't advance that agenda.
 
Mark said:
Hes a great driver but that move he pulled at homestead was boneheaded.

he could have been a bit patient and either won or finished second.

Aggression is great but you gotta pick the moment.
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He did pick the moment...it just wasn't the right moment. :)
 
The Nature Boy said:
How is it bogus? It’s a fixed set of rules that everyone agrees to when they begin the season. A championship is legitimate when it follows a consistent and agreed upon set of rules.

You’re free to not like it but questioning its legitimacy is just silly.
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You go ahead and drink the cool aid, many do.
 
RaceCritter said:
That being said his aggressive driving at the end certainly cost him big time this week.
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And if he doesn't attempt that move at all, the conversation is still the same as it is: Larson on the outside looking in and possibly being in a must-win scenario at Martinsville.

If he makes that move stick, the chances are much greater that he's locked into the playoffs than they are if he doesn't attempt it at all. That move cost him 10 points, which a stage win alone can erase. And whether he's 7 points below the cutline or 3 points above doesn't matter. If someone not named Kyle Larson or Christopher Bell wins at Martinsville, that's not enough for Larson. Barring a catastrophe, Christopher Bell will be good on points, if one of the other playoff contenders wins, will be the only one who can get in on points.

The days of "we had a good points day" are over. The Latford system is dead.
 
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