If Kyle Larson is the greatest driver in the world

Formerjackman said:
Championships don't go to the best driver. They go to the driver that does the best job. Larson beat Elliott like a drum all season, but in the end only 20 or so points separated the two. Same could be said for Byron. At some point you have to do more than just win races and be spectacular. You have to maximize EVERY single opportunity.
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As you are seeming to have such a problem with Larson, why don't you tell us just who it is that is currently the "best" driver in the Nascar field?
 
Formerjackman said:
Championships don't go to the best driver. They go to the driver that does the best job. Larson beat Elliott like a drum all season, but in the end only 20 or so points separated the two. Same could be said for Byron. At some point you have to do more than just win races and be spectacular. You have to maximize EVERY single opportunity.
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Totally. It's just frustrating to be taken out by luck.
 
StandOnIt said:
As you are seeming to have such a problem with Larson, why don't you tell us just who it is that is currently the "best" driver in the Nascar field?
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Pure talent and speed, Larson. Getting it done when it matters? Probably Logano. Go back ten years, the answers likely would have been Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson. Go back another ten, and the answer is probably Jeff Gordon for both.
 
Larson is still young. Give him more time and he'll settle in and become a driver who knows how to pace himself and his equipment. Racing venues from open wheel require you get the job done as quickly as possible as open wheel races don't regularly run the distances NASCAR's top series race. It is hard to disengage a trained mentality from a lifetime of racing for the moment and learning the nuances of guaging on track actions for the win.
 
Formerjackman said:
Championships don't go to the best driver. They go to the driver that does the best job. Larson beat Elliott like a drum all season, but in the end only 20 or so points separated the two. Same could be said for Byron. At some point you have to do more than just win races and be spectacular. You have to maximize EVERY single opportunity.
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I think this a pretty even keeled take imo
 
Formerjackman said:
Pure talent and speed, Larson. Getting it done when it matters? Probably Logano. Go back ten years, the answers likely would have been Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson. Go back another ten, and the answer is probably Jeff Gordon for both.
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I think Kyle Busch showed us that talent doesn't make the racecar driver alone. He was an underachiever for most of his career. People forget that.

Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart are the only guys in recent years who had Larson like talent with Logano like racecraft.

Kyle Busch didn't for a while, but he also didn't have the talent of Gordon, Stewart or Johnson - only propaganda said otherwise

Logano is the best racecar driver in the cup series, I think.
 
jaqua19 said:
Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart are the only guys in recent years who had Larson like talent with Logano like racecraft. .
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jaqua19 said:
Logano is the best racecar driver in the cup series, I think.
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Dislike of a driver causes some race fans to overlook one of the more talented drivers on the track.
Consider the following retired driver records for comparison/benchmark purposes only:

Jimmy Johnson won 12% of races entered and finished 54% top ten.
Tony Stewart won 12.6 % of races entered and finished top ten 50%.
Jeff Gordon won 8.6% of the time and finished top ten 60%. Jeff also is the laps led leader of those mentioned, surpassing the next highest laps led driver, Johnson, by 5000.

Active drivers:

Denny Hamlin won 8% of races entered and finished 52% top ten.
Kyle Larson won 8% of races entered and finished 50% top ten.
Joey Logano won 6% of races entered 50% top ten.

It won't be long before Larson sits in top spot and is currently displaced with a 2% margin of top ten finishes but considering Hamlin has been in the series 20 years and Larson 12, the table should easily turn as Larson gets better at long race management.

I appreciate the way Hamlin's management of strategy and equipment during a race as it shows in reviewing his entire racing history in the series. Of course there will be varying opinions on this topic but for right now, statistics tell the story.
 
Whizzer said:
Dislike of a driver causes some race fans to overlook one of the more talented drivers on the track.
Consider the following retired driver records for comparison/benchmark purposes only:

Jimmy Johnson won 12% of races entered and finished 54% top ten.
Tony Stewart won 12.6 % of races entered and finished top ten 50%.
Jeff Gordon won 8.6% of the time and finished top ten 60%. Jeff also is the laps led leader of those mentioned, surpassing the next highest laps led driver, Johnson, by 5000.

Active drivers:

Denny Hamlin won 8% of races entered and finished 52% top ten.
Kyle Larson won 8% of races entered and finished 50% top ten.
Joey Logano won 6% of races entered 50% top ten.

It won't be long before Larson sits in top spot and is currently displaced with a 2% margin of top ten finishes but considering Hamlin has been in the series 20 years and Larson 12, the table should easily turn as Larson gets better at long race management.

I appreciate the way Hamlin's management of strategy and equipment during a race as it shows in reviewing his entire racing history in the series. Of course there will be varying opinions on this topic but for right now, statistics tell the story.
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Tony Stewart had an 8% win rate. Jeff Gordons was around 11%
 
Whizzer said:
Larson is still young. Give him more time and he'll settle in and become a driver who knows how to pace himself and his equipment. Racing venues from open wheel require you get the job done as quickly as possible as open wheel races don't regularly run the distances NASCAR's top series race. It is hard to disengage a trained mentality from a lifetime of racing for the moment and learning the nuances of guaging on track actions for the win.
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He's 32? This is who he is.
 
Formerjackman said:
Pure talent and speed, Larson. Getting it done when it matters? Probably Logano. Go back ten years, the answers likely would have been Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson. Go back another ten, and the answer is probably Jeff Gordon for both.
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I'm now doubling down on this take. Potential and pure ability is great, but lets be honest. The scoreboard is what REALLY matters, and Logano pretty much has more scoreboard than every other active driver combined right now. He is to Larson what Brady is to Manning, and what Jordan is to LeBron. The truth isn't always what we want it to be, but it's still foolish to deny it or ignore it. The biggest of the big time players rise to the occasion when it REALLY matters, and who has answered the bell more often in this era than Joey? Keep in mind that without Matt Kenseth, this could well have been #4. I also want to submit that Paul Wolfe has elevated himself into the most rarified air of all time great crew chiefs.
 
If a person doesn’t think that Kyle Larson was the best driver this year they are willfully blind. Well either that or they got ahold of a really good batch of chewables😃
 
AlTerego said:
If a person doesn’t think that Kyle Larson was the best driver this year they are willfully blind. Well either that or they got ahold of a really good batch of chewables😃
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Do you want to be the best, or do you want to be the champion? Kyle's season isn't even in the top ten of great seasons that didn't result in a title.
 
Formerjackman said:
Do you want to be the best, or do you want to be the champion? Kyle's season isn't even in the top ten of great seasons that didn't result in a title.
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It was the best season of the gen 7 era though.

As far as best that didn't result in a title...

Hello Carl Edwards 2008
 
Formerjackman said:
Larson beat Elliott like a drum all season, but in the end only 20 or so points separated the two. Same could be said for Byron. At some point you have to do more than just win races and be spectacular. You have to maximize EVERY single opportunity.
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Lol don't they reset the points repeatedly in the playoffs? I mean, that's the entire point of the post season - to keep things artificially close.

No one can be a dominant champion in NASCAR anymore so there's no point in comparing using titles or whatever. Average finish and wins are the best proxy.
 
Why are people still making excuses for Larson when it comes to race craft and pushing his stuff too hard?

You guys realize this already happened right? He came out fast as hell and kept making mistakes.. everyone said the same things they're saying now. Then he smartened up a bit and started winning a bunch of races and a championship.

To go back to that and still have people backing it up and using the same excuses Is really weird to me. Sorry but that's a load of crap. Larson is a great driver but if he hasn't overcome that issue by now no amount of rationalizing it from the fans is going to change that.

That being said. I think hes great and doesnt need to change a thing. I'm only saying these things because I think people who have that mindset are wrong. This isn't something he needs to get past or learn from. This is who he has decided he wants to be.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Lol don't they reset the points repeatedly in the playoffs? I mean, that's the entire point of the post season - to keep things artificially close.

No one can be a dominant champion in NASCAR anymore so there's no point in comparing using titles or whatever. Average finish and wins are the best proxy.
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Fudged up mess. Particularly Burton, Briscoe, Suarez, Cendric, win and you shouldn't be in-ers.
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