Cup Championship thread --- Phoenix

[jaqua19]

I don't like Joey but I have no issue with him winning. I hope we look back and see he exposed everything wrong with this system. This is not really rocket science to me. If NASCAR really wants to make it all about winning then just say whoever gets the most wins is the champ and then in the event of a tie the most second places among those with the most wins and so on. If you care ONLY about consistency then best average finish is the camp and in the event of a tie go to wins. I still think the answer though is year round points/stage points with wins getting 25 bonus points and the top 15 in points make the playoffs with one wild card for the most wins outside of the top 15 that ran all the races - Yes I am looking at you Kyle Larson. Then for the playoffs, total reset other than maybe giving the top 4 a first round bye and letting the other 12 battle for 8 spots in the round of 12. Once the round of 12 hits is game on total reset boys have at it.

17.1 is in fact a championship season in 2024 though.. it just happened lol.. they were slow for a while but you cannot deny he was faster in the second half of the season.. and then went on to win 3/10 playoff races.

I understand.. but I disagree that the results in february-june should matter when it comes to November.. that stuff matters when the playoffs start and the teams who did well are given a substantial advantage and then it is irrelevant.

Everyone wants to talk about Joeys average finish but nobody mentions DNFs or issues caused by other drivers.. everyone wants to talk about how great Larsons season was but nobody wants to talk about how he blew a huge points lead.. no instead let's just blame Joey for doing what needs to be done. It's nonsense.

I can get with taking away win and your in during the regular season (only) and letting the top 16 in.. but that's not the case right now and I just can't take anyone seriously that thinks Joey didn't run a championship season.

We know he had 4 wins as well as the all star win and almost won Richmond if not for the 3 being an idiot. That would be 6 wins... same as Larson.. but nope we're not gonna talk about that right? Nah let's just keep talking about how bad he ran in the spring

To be fair, Larson blowing a tire is what cost him, and the pit road issue. The system screwed him.

Also, you only come around here thumping your chest when Logano runs well. Logano is one of the greats, and im sure under the chase format he'd run better

But you're a front runner. No one likes a front runner

 

[Truex_rox]

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!

Honestly though.. I have way more fun watching the cut off races. I enjoy when the drivers go harder for stage wins and stage points. I like the idea of a team having to step up when it really matters. I like that it requires damn near equal parts luck and skill. I like the way season long consistency is rewarded with an advantage in the playoffs that carries through from round to round.. and I like the game 7 moments a championship 4 race brings.. manufactured excitement or not ITS EXCITING!

My only issue with this format is that it can provoke race manipulation like we saw at Martinsville and other times in the past. I don't have an answer for this that works because I go straight to kick them from the sport but that opens up a whole other can of worms.

I'm curious what you guys thought was worse.. Kyle Busch missing a bunch of races and winning it.. or Joeys bad average finish this year?

To me they're both just as legitimate as Larson's or Truex's.

As much as I was rooting for Kyle to get his first title that year, that was more egregious.

 

[SlicedBread22]

Also, you only come around here thumping your chest when Logano runs well.

Tbh I was locked out of my account here for a while. Couldn't remember the pw and the Facebook login wasn't working for me because I also forget that password. I randomly remembered my password here one day a few months ago.. or I would have been around more.

Ngl, a big part of the reason I stopped coming around here in the first place was the degree of hate from the fans towards nascar.. got tired of defending my opinion or arguing with people. I still have 1 person blocked with absolutely zero interest in what he has to say about anything.

I've been coming here for the better part of 12 years now.. 2012 or 13 was when I first showed up.. I spent A LOT of time defending Joey back then.. I saw what others didnt in him and I was right the whole time... so if I'm beating my chest over his success I think it's well earned..

Many people around here deserve relentless and perpetual "I told you so's" from me imo

 

[Chase Fan 79]

Now that the season is complete I am curious as to who and why you think “was the best this year “ and should have been the champion?

My vote goes to Bell. For me, he is the driver that put the most complete season together as far as getting wins and being consistent all year. I would not argue that hard against Larson either but I really feel like they fell off after Sonoma and despite a few more wins and dominant runs there was some head scratching mistakes and a little fall off in speed in most races. Bell had just as many top 5's as Larson but also had a staggering 23 top 10's. I would have had Byron in the conversation as well but to me, his drop off from early in the season to later on was even more defined than Larson's. Same deal for Denny Hamlin. Really did not put the whole season together and the performance was just not the same in the second half. I will say that an honorable mention should go to Chase and Reddick for their remarkable consistency. Had they done that and added a few more wins I'd be making a case for them.

 

[Chase Fan 79]

I was mainly pointing out that his season and speed aren't as bad as it seems. The numbers don't always tell the whole story which is why until that point I also had not mentioned Larson because thats not the point.

I think top 16 should be in on points and that's it.. once we hit playoffs then win and you move on. I feel that's a reasonable change that would help the fans accept the outcome... but even then, if someone barely gets in and then gets hot at the right time they shouldn't be scrutinized for it.

I know most won't admit it but I'm pretty sure a lot of the hate about it is because people don't like Joey. I believe if certain other drivers had the exact same situation play out or if Penske wasn't on their third consecutive title that people would celebrate them for it. Especially if it were a first time champion.

For me at least, while I openly admit I don't like Joey I have no issue with him winning. I don't see Byron or Reddick as champions yet and I figured if Blaney won everyone would freak out and be like "here's the next big thing" when in all reality winning a title in this format really does not mean much to me as far as ability. I think Chase is a WAY better driver now than he was in 2020 for example.

Funny story about Joey and people not liking him - As I have mentioned in other posts -I was at Loudin this year with my family including my 7-year old son. We were sitting right in turns 1 and 2 where Joey got tight and slid up and took Chase out. My son has not let it go yet and every time the race is on and he hears Logano's name he gets all mad and reminds us about how he is still mad at Joey for wrecking Chase. Luckily he was busy during the title race and he did not catch that Joey won or there would have been hell to pay. LOL

 

[Chase Fan 79]

To be fair, Larson blowing a tire is what cost him, and the pit road issue. The system screwed him.

Also, you only come around here thumping your chest when Logano runs well. Logano is one of the greats, and im sure under the chase format he'd run better

But you're a front runner. No one likes a front runner

I can't feel sorry for Larson for any bad luck he had because he had so many other examples of issues of his own making that cost him points. Dude is wheelman for sure but he needs to learn to sometimes realize it's not there and take his foot off the gas and settle for top 5-10 instead of trying to win all the time. That's what makes a driver to me - that "feel" of exactly where the line is.

I have a Can Am Ryker motorcycle. For anyone not familiar - it's a 3-wheel bike and it's FAST. Not necessarily as far as top speed as it tops out at 110+/- but it has a continuously variable transmission and due to that throttle response is THERE no matter how fast you are going. I bring this up because a friend of mine and I each have one of these bikes and occasionally lack of self-control gets the better of us and we go way harder than we should. This past summer we were cruising side by side on a 2-lane access road and were racing coming up to a sharp corner. I was on the outside and decided to go hard and thought I had that "feel" that I would be able to make it without lifting. When I first hit the corner I felt it get really tight and start to drift and I thought I had hit it too hard and was going to wreck. Luckily once she slipped up a little and I eased off the gas it found some grip and I motored around my friend on the high side for the win. LOL. Seriously though, it made me think about the razor's edge these guys are on all the time and it gives me way more respect for them - especially those that seem to know right where the line is.

As far as the title thing - I just feel a driver should have to run all the races unless there is an extenuating circumstance such as injury or a death in the family. We debated about it endlessly after the 600 but I still feel the same in that it's a slippery slope with fans and sponsors and such to start opening the door for these guys to voluntarily miss races.

 

[SlicedBread22]

For me at least, while I openly admit I don't like Joey I have no issue with him winning. I don't see Byron or Reddick as champions yet and I figured if Blaney won everyone would freak out and be like "here's the next big thing" when in all reality winning a title in this format really does not mean much to me as far as ability. I think Chase is a WAY better driver now than he was in 2020 for example.

Funny story about Joey and people not liking him - As I have mentioned in other posts -I was at Loudin this year with my family including my 7-year old son. We were sitting right in turns 1 and 2 where Joey got tight and slid up and took Chase out. My son has not let it go yet and every time the race is on and he hears Logano's name he gets all mad and reminds us about how he is still mad at Joey for wrecking Chase. Luckily he was busy during the title race and he did not catch that Joey won or there would have been hell to pay. LOL

My dad has hated Joey for years.. mainly because he underperformed and was overhyped coming into the sport but even more so over the years as we've developed a bit of a rivalry.

Anyway, for christmas in 2013 we got my parents tickets for the Bristol night race. I told my dad christmas morning Joey was going to win that race 9 months later and he did! I was told he wanted to throw a beer at him but didn't want to lose the beer lol

He was a Tony Stewart fan so when Joey won his first championship he still would bug me that Tony was a "multi-champion"... when Joey won his 2nd he said "Tony is a multi-MULTI- champion!"

But now.. well lets just say I'm pretty sure he went into a deep depression somewhere around the middle of the championship race this year

 

[DIDIT]

My vote goes to Bell. For me, he is the driver that put the most complete season together as far as getting wins and being consistent all year. I would not argue that hard against Larson either but I really feel like they fell off after Sonoma and despite a few more wins and dominant runs there was some head scratching mistakes and a little fall off in speed in most races. Bell had just as many top 5's as Larson but also had a staggering 23 top 10's. I would have had Byron in the conversation as well but to me, his drop off from early in the season to later on was even more defined than Larson's. Same deal for Denny Hamlin. Really did not put the whole season together and the performance was just not the same in the second half. I will say that an honorable mention should go to Chase and Reddick for their remarkable consistency. Had they done that and added a few more wins I'd be making a case for them.

Bell was definitely consistent and had a good year. I don’t see any strong argument against him.
As for your bike…be careful!

 

[jaqua19]

Tbh I was locked out of my account here for a while. Couldn't remember the pw and the Facebook login wasn't working for me because I also forget that password. I randomly remembered my password here one day a few months ago.. or I would have been around more.

Ngl, a big part of the reason I stopped coming around here in the first place was the degree of hate from the fans towards nascar.. got tired of defending my opinion or arguing with people. I still have 1 person blocked with absolutely zero interest in what he has to say about anything.

I've been coming here for the better part of 12 years now.. 2012 or 13 was when I first showed up.. I spent A LOT of time defending Joey back then.. I saw what others didnt in him and I was right the whole time... so if I'm beating my chest over his success I think it's well earned..

Many people around here deserve relentless and perpetual "I told you so's" from me imo

There's really not a lot of hate here. I have multiple people blocked and post regularly.

Come on man. You come here to brag, and only to brag. Own that ****

 

[jaqua19]

I can't feel sorry for Larson for any bad luck he had because he had so many other examples of issues of his own making that cost him points. Dude is wheelman for sure but he needs to learn to sometimes realize it's not there and take his foot off the gas and settle for top 5-10 instead of trying to win all the time. That's what makes a driver to me - that "feel" of exactly where the line is.

I have a Can Am Ryker motorcycle. For anyone not familiar - it's a 3-wheel bike and it's FAST. Not necessarily as far as top speed as it tops out at 110+/- but it has a continuously variable transmission and due to that throttle response is THERE no matter how fast you are going. I bring this up because a friend of mine and I each have one of these bikes and occasionally lack of self-control gets the better of us and we go way harder than we should. This past summer we were cruising side by side on a 2-lane access road and were racing coming up to a sharp corner. I was on the outside and decided to go hard and thought I had that "feel" that I would be able to make it without lifting. When I first hit the corner I felt it get really tight and start to drift and I thought I had hit it too hard and was going to wreck. Luckily once she slipped up a little and I eased off the gas it found some grip and I motored around my friend on the high side for the win. LOL. Seriously though, it made me think about the razor's edge these guys are on all the time and it gives me way more respect for them - especially those that seem to know right where the line is.

As far as the title thing - I just feel a driver should have to run all the races unless there is an extenuating circumstance such as injury or a death in the family. We debated about it endlessly after the 600 but I still feel the same in that it's a slippery slope with fans and sponsors and such to start opening the door for these guys to voluntarily miss races.

That's more about the format. Larson made that choice under the assumption that he'd get the waiver.

Larson made mistakes this year. But in the playoffs, he really didn't. He was plagued by bad luck allllllll post season long outside of the Atlanta crash.

This one is still hard to swallow.

Because despite the mistakes, he scored the most points, lead the series in every major statistic outside of average finish where he was 3rd, and top 10s, where he was 2nd or 3rd.

Kind of can't look past the luck.

Not that he would have beaten the 22 anyway. But it would have been nice.

What had stood out most to me about the final 4 during the next gen era is how bad some of the cars run. We used to have all 4 championship cars with winning cars. Now we can rely on at least 2 of them to not really be top 5 in speed.

That was Reddick and Byron this year

 

[Revman]

Tbh I was locked out of my account here for a while. Couldn't remember the pw and the Facebook login wasn't working for me because I also forget that password. I randomly remembered my password here one day a few months ago.. or I would have been around more.

Ngl, a big part of the reason I stopped coming around here in the first place was the degree of hate from the fans towards nascar.. got tired of defending my opinion or arguing with people. I still have 1 person blocked with absolutely zero interest in what he has to say about anything.

I've been coming here for the better part of 12 years now.. 2012 or 13 was when I first showed up.. I spent A LOT of time defending Joey back then.. I saw what others didnt in him and I was right the whole time... so if I'm beating my chest over his success I think it's well earned..

Many people around here deserve relentless and perpetual "I told you so's" from me imo

I have been 100% clear that I love your presence here. Love it. I admire the passion. I have been to three championships now, and have seen Joey win two of them. While I desperately would have liked to have seen MY Toyotas win, I will always remember being happy for you at the flag. Better to see Joey (or Blaney) win in a Ford than a Felon Chevy surrounded by lackeys who have kissed the ring for protection. Congrats. Get in here more. Thump the chest. Block the rest. Sheesh....sounds like a great t-shirt...."Thumb the chest, block the rest!"

 

[Revman]

That's more about the format. Larson made that choice under the assumption that he'd get the waiver.

Larson made mistakes this year. But in the playoffs, he really didn't. He was plagued by bad luck allllllll post season long outside of the Atlanta crash.

This one is still hard to swallow.

Because despite the mistakes, he scored the most points, lead the series in every major statistic outside of average finish where he was 3rd, and top 10s, where he was 2nd or 3rd.

Kind of can't look past the luck.

Not that he would have beaten the 22 anyway. But it would have been nice.

What had stood out most to me about the final 4 during the next gen era is how bad some of the cars run. We used to have all 4 championship cars with winning cars. Now we can rely on at least 2 of them to not really be top 5 in speed.

That was Reddick and Byron this year

Reddick and Byron were not that bad....the Penskes were just that good. That is what champions do. Larson makes a lot of his won luck. If I was a fan of his, I wouldn't want it any other way, but let's keep this real. Nothing did anything to Larson. He did it to himself, and that is why he wasn't in the mix. I am good if we give him a trophy for the best year, but that is not the championship trophy.....and then while we are at it, we can give trophies for participation, etc.

That Chain Gang group is a funny organization. Giddy over all of their cars in the playoffs, with Jarrett yapping about a four car prison final....Didn't work out as intended. Betcha The Felon is going to have another one of those milk and cookies deals with his inmates, and we can all gush over how cute that is for the next 10 years.

Bottom line, Penske came ready, and kicked EVERYBODY'S asses. In sport, something to be celebrated, not diminished by a bunch of crap about a system or whatever. I went to the championship to see a championship performance. I saw a quintessential example...just wish it was MY guy, but it wasn't....and that too is part of what makes this sport special.

Some day we will all realize that what we have is awesome....for me, that day was at the first day I started following this stuff.

 

[Revman]

I can't feel sorry for Larson for any bad luck he had because he had so many other examples of issues of his own making that cost him points. Dude is wheelman for sure but he needs to learn to sometimes realize it's not there and take his foot off the gas and settle for top 5-10 instead of trying to win all the time. That's what makes a driver to me - that "feel" of exactly where the line is.

I have a Can Am Ryker motorcycle. For anyone not familiar - it's a 3-wheel bike and it's FAST. Not necessarily as far as top speed as it tops out at 110+/- but it has a continuously variable transmission and due to that throttle response is THERE no matter how fast you are going. I bring this up because a friend of mine and I each have one of these bikes and occasionally lack of self-control gets the better of us and we go way harder than we should. This past summer we were cruising side by side on a 2-lane access road and were racing coming up to a sharp corner. I was on the outside and decided to go hard and thought I had that "feel" that I would be able to make it without lifting. When I first hit the corner I felt it get really tight and start to drift and I thought I had hit it too hard and was going to wreck. Luckily once she slipped up a little and I eased off the gas it found some grip and I motored around my friend on the high side for the win. LOL. Seriously though, it made me think about the razor's edge these guys are on all the time and it gives me way more respect for them - especially those that seem to know right where the line is.

As far as the title thing - I just feel a driver should have to run all the races unless there is an extenuating circumstance such as injury or a death in the family. We debated about it endlessly after the 600 but I still feel the same in that it's a slippery slope with fans and sponsors and such to start opening the door for these guys to voluntarily miss races.

I'll say it....Larson needs to work on his race craft. That is what this is about. When to take the finish, etc....but do the Larson fans really want that? Dunno. Bell has inconsistent race craft. When his car is great, he is fabulous. When it is not, he get frustrated, and pushes. How many spins did we see like that this year? Too many. Mix in his pit crew issues, and you get what you got. This is another element of this year. The Chain Gang pit work was stellar. Penskes solid too. MY Toyotas....not so much. Killed us all year. WE got beat. WE got exposed. No room for error on the track when your guys are losing you spots and/or getting their asses kicked by the competition. In regard to Larson v. Bell....Larson is better equipped to race his way out of whatever happens in the pit, Bell doesn't have the raw speed of a Larson in my opinion, and cannot afford problems in the pit and/or a car that is off.

 

[SlicedBread22]

There's really not a lot of hate here. I have multiple people blocked and post regularly.

Come on man. You come here to brag, and only to brag. Own that ****

I'll admit it's the reason I came here after Vegas.. sure. But it's not why I'm still here now.

 

[SlicedBread22]

I have been 100% clear that I love your presence here. Love it. I admire the passion. I have been to three championships now, and have seen Joey win two of them. While I desperately would have liked to have seen MY Toyotas win, I will always remember being happy for you at the flag. Better to see Joey (or Blaney) win in a Ford than a Felon Chevy surrounded by lackeys who have kissed the ring for protection. Congrats. Get in here more. Thump the chest. Block the rest. Sheesh....sounds like a great t-shirt...."Thumb the chest, block the rest!"

Hahaha yeah I definitely plan on being around more now. Missed it.

 

[StandOnIt]

Bottom line, Penske came ready, and kicked EVERYBODY'S asses. In sport, something to be celebrated, not diminished by a bunch of crap about a system or whatever. I went to the championship to see a championship performance. I saw a quintessential example...just wish it was MY guy, but it wasn't....and that too is part of what makes this sport special.

Some day we will all realize that what we have is awesome....for me, that day was at the first day I started following this stuff.

Just because one team found out how to be faster in one race than three others did doesn't mean they earned the championship IMO. I'm glad you enjoyed the race. As far as races go it was a long way from some of the races we watched last season. There were multiple races so close the timer had to go to three decimal points to determine a winner. I wasn't standing up yelling at the TV for the final four lottery race but there were two or three cup races that I did.. I doubt if you were, watching in person after watching Reddick and the yoters flounder the whole race.

 

[aunty dive]

Penske cars won 3 of the last 4 races and 4 of the last 10 in 2024. Winners of 4 of the last 6 Cup Championships including the most recent 3 in a row.

“The Unfair Advantage” by Mark Donahue is a fascinating read. Superb engineering, scrupulous attention to preparation details, adaptable and well executed race strategy, solid performances in the pit box and skilled, determined drivers.

Tough combination.

 

[Mike Crayne]

Just waiting for Daytona.

 

[StandOnIt]

Penske cars won 3 of the last 4 races and 4 of the last 10 in 2024. Winners of 4 of the last 6 Cup Championships including the most recent 3 in a row.

“The Unfair Advantage” by Mark Donahue is a fascinating read. Superb engineering, scrupulous attention to preparation details, adaptable and well executed race strategy, solid performances in the pit box and skilled, determined drivers.

Tough combination.

Logano? Continues because of the 48's DQ, in other words would have been in 9th place current fudged up points, to 8th. Wins one race, a fuel mileage race, definitely not by preparation or speed, but by unplanned desperation, and yeah the 22 Penske figured out something for one race to win the championship.
By the same token, during the same time, Larson blew everybody away at Bristol and won at Charlotte on the road course but he didn't make the cutoff on his way to 6 wins on the season. lol.

 

[jaqua19]

Reddick and Byron were not that bad....the Penskes were just that good. That is what champions do. Larson makes a lot of his won luck. If I was a fan of his, I wouldn't want it any other way, but let's keep this real. Nothing did anything to Larson. He did it to himself, and that is why he wasn't in the mix. I am good if we give him a trophy for the best year, but that is not the championship trophy.....and then while we are at it, we can give trophies for participation, etc.

That Chain Gang group is a funny organization. Giddy over all of their cars in the playoffs, with Jarrett yapping about a four car prison final....Didn't work out as intended. Betcha The Felon is going to have another one of those milk and cookies deals with his inmates, and we can all gush over how cute that is for the next 10 years.

Bottom line, Penske came ready, and kicked EVERYBODY'S asses. In sport, something to be celebrated, not diminished by a bunch of crap about a system or whatever. I went to the championship to see a championship performance. I saw a quintessential example...just wish it was MY guy, but it wasn't....and that too is part of what makes this sport special.

Some day we will all realize that what we have is awesome....for me, that day was at the first day I started following this stuff.

I mean, Larson's mistake didn't cause him to blow a tire, and it wasn't on him that his pit crew blundered it at Vegas.

The math tells us those two incidents are what took him out of it. If we want to put it on him, we can point to him not settling for second, and Cliff NOT telling Kyle that he was in a good points spot running p2 (he didn't tell him, which was a bit surprising).

I like Elliott, am a fan of Larson, and can take or leave the other guys. I support drivers I like, regardless of the manufacture or team, so I don't really have any comments to that classic Rev middle paragraph lolol

But I will absolutely defend my take that luck cost him a shot at making final 3. At the end of the day, factors in the round of 8 that cost him were freak bad luck incidents.

I don't love this format in itself and I wish we could go back to the 10 race Chase, but I think Logano is definitely a deserving champion and I won't ever complain if he wins.

Larson, Blaney, Logano, BK, C Bell and Elliott are probably my 5 or 6 favorites.

Logano is a mini Jimmie Johnson in every way that made Jimmie better than his peers.

 

[jaqua19]

I'll say it....Larson needs to work on his race craft. That is what this is about. When to take the finish, etc....but do the Larson fans really want that? Dunno. Bell has inconsistent race craft. When his car is great, he is fabulous. When it is not, he get frustrated, and pushes. How many spins did we see like that this year? Too many. Mix in his pit crew issues, and you get what you got. This is another element of this year. The Chain Gang pit work was stellar. Penskes solid too. MY Toyotas....not so much. Killed us all year. WE got beat. WE got exposed. No room for error on the track when your guys are losing you spots and/or getting their asses kicked by the competition. In regard to Larson v. Bell....Larson is better equipped to race his way out of whatever happens in the pit, Bell doesn't have the raw speed of a Larson in my opinion, and cannot afford problems in the pit and/or a car that is off.

I want him to work on his racecraft. Working on his racecraft does not mean that he would lose what makes him good, or fast, which is a sentiment his other fans seem to have.

His racecraft has absolutely improved, and he's become quite elite and managing pace over a run, which is not something he's always done.

But sometimes he just makes decisions and risky moves that either end up with him wrecked, or just kill track position.

He's still been the most statistically dominant driver across the board, so I GET when people say he's still outperforming the field despite his inconsistent racecraft.

But at the same time, you have to pick and chose your battles.

If Larson didn't blow a tire at Homestead, he probably walks away with close to 17 stage points instead of 0, and that "gamble" for the win that he took probably would have made more sense.

But given the circumstance, he must have felt it was a must win, which it wasn't entirely at that point.

You would imagine he would think to ask "what's the points situation look like if we finish 2nd?"

And Cliff would have told him he was above the cut line.

Bad luck has taken you out. Do you maximize your points day and finish p2 where you are going to be a bit ahead?

Or do you gamble to lock yourself in?

 

[pjmolo]

Hahaha yeah I definitely plan on being around more now. Missed it.

@SlicedBread22, you need to get back in the board's Pick 'Em game next year.

You finished in the Top Ten in 2019.

 

[SlicedBread22]

@SlicedBread22, you need to get back in the board's Pick 'Em game next year.

You finished in the Top Ten in 2019.

Absolutely! Gotta try for another bold prediction win too lol

 

[Chase Fan 79]

My dad has hated Joey for years.. mainly because he underperformed and was overhyped coming into the sport but even more so over the years as we've developed a bit of a rivalry.

Anyway, for christmas in 2013 we got my parents tickets for the Bristol night race. I told my dad christmas morning Joey was going to win that race 9 months later and he did! I was told he wanted to throw a beer at him but didn't want to lose the beer lol

He was a Tony Stewart fan so when Joey won his first championship he still would bug me that Tony was a "multi-champion"... when Joey won his 2nd he said "Tony is a multi-MULTI- champion!"

But now.. well lets just say I'm pretty sure he went into a deep depression somewhere around the middle of the championship race this year

Must have been fun for you two when they got into it at Fontana. Still one of my favorite all time interviews there with Tony. "I'm gonna bust his ass." "Thank-you Tony." Thank-YOU." Gold.

 

[Chase Fan 79]

That's more about the format. Larson made that choice under the assumption that he'd get the waiver.

Larson made mistakes this year. But in the playoffs, he really didn't. He was plagued by bad luck allllllll post season long outside of the Atlanta crash.

This one is still hard to swallow.

Because despite the mistakes, he scored the most points, lead the series in every major statistic outside of average finish where he was 3rd, and top 10s, where he was 2nd or 3rd.

Kind of can't look past the luck.

Not that he would have beaten the 22 anyway. But it would have been nice.

What had stood out most to me about the final 4 during the next gen era is how bad some of the cars run. We used to have all 4 championship cars with winning cars. Now we can rely on at least 2 of them to not really be top 5 in speed.

That was Reddick and Byron this year

Well the good news is NASCAR is considering changes at least.

 

[SlicedBread22]

Must have been fun for you two when they got into it at Fontana. Still one of my favorite all time interviews there with Tony. "I'm gonna bust his ass." "Thank-you Tony." Thank-YOU." Gold.

He has used quotes from that interview for years! Lol

 

[Revman]

Just because one team found out how to be faster in one race than three others did doesn't mean they earned the championship IMO. I'm glad you enjoyed the race. As far as races go it was a long way from some of the races we watched last season. There were multiple races so close the timer had to go to three decimal points to determine a winner. I wasn't standing up yelling at the TV for the final four lottery race but there were two or three cup races that I did.. I doubt if you were, watching in person after watching Reddick and the yoters flounder the whole race.

IMO, you got one race. Bring your best stuff. Penske three years in a row. I want him to play the lottery for me. Winner. My voice just cam back honestly after cheering for Reddick. I'm an idiot. If WE are 40 laps down at the white, I still think we have a chance. I don't need a great finish. Maybe you do. Every race is its own animal. I love them all. I must be a ****** fan, or an uneducated one.

 

[Revman]

Must have been fun for you two when they got into it at Fontana. Still one of my favorite all time interviews there with Tony. "I'm gonna bust his ass." "Thank-you Tony." Thank-YOU." Gold.

The greatest interview ever. Tony was good to Byrnes because Byrnes was good to the drivers. Just awesome.

 

[Revman]

I want him to work on his racecraft. Working on his racecraft does not mean that he would lose what makes him good, or fast, which is a sentiment his other fans seem to have.

His racecraft has absolutely improved, and he's become quite elite and managing pace over a run, which is not something he's always done.

But sometimes he just makes decisions and risky moves that either end up with him wrecked, or just kill track position.

He's still been the most statistically dominant driver across the board, so I GET when people say he's still outperforming the field despite his inconsistent racecraft.

But at the same time, you have to pick and chose your battles.

If Larson didn't blow a tire at Homestead, he probably walks away with close to 17 stage points instead of 0, and that "gamble" for the win that he took probably would have made more sense.

But given the circumstance, he must have felt it was a must win, which it wasn't entirely at that point.

You would imagine he would think to ask "what's the points situation look like if we finish 2nd?"

And Cliff would have told him he was above the cut line.

Bad luck has taken you out. Do you maximize your points day and finish p2 where you are going to be a bit ahead?

Or do you gamble to lock yourself in?

Well said....and I can't imagine that Cliff didn't let him know. To your point, his race craft has improved. Remember when he was rattling off poles at Sonoma, and honestly, there was no need to take him seriously because he would get destroyed in the long run? Look at him now. So, I don't know that it is across the board that he needs to improve, but just needs to be more situationally aware I guess? Maybe this is a Cliff thing.

 

[Revman]

Penske cars won 3 of the last 4 races and 4 of the last 10 in 2024. Winners of 4 of the last 6 Cup Championships including the most recent 3 in a row.

“The Unfair Advantage” by Mark Donahue is a fascinating read. Superb engineering, scrupulous attention to preparation details, adaptable and well executed race strategy, solid performances in the pit box and skilled, determined drivers.

Tough combination.

Yep, this isn't new. The Best is also a fabulous read about Penske's Mercedes-Benz 500I. I am sure there would some here furious with this feat, but I find it representative of his organization, and an engineering marvel. Absolutely fascinating. The Lotto Crowd will continue to chirp about how unfair all of this is, but Penske will be laughing all the way to the podium. This is what he does. He is a champion.

 

[Revman]

Logano? Continues because of the 48's DQ, in other words would have been in 9th place current fudged up points, to 8th. Wins one race, a fuel mileage race, definitely not by preparation or speed, but by unplanned desperation, and yeah the 22 Penske figured out something for one race to win the championship.
By the same token, during the same time, Larson blew everybody away at Bristol and won at Charlotte on the road course but he didn't make the cutoff on his way to 6 wins on the season. lol.

Wait a minute....you blabbed about Bell ****ting the bed in Phoenix....now you are saying that nobody could have seen it coming. Keep talking. I have plenty of popcorn.