Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Blaze said:
Probably worth making a note, this was before the point system that people want back.
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People remember that mess from years and years ago, but they think that a driver with an average finish of 17.1 that wins the championship this year is just fine.
 
Blaze said:
Come on, I know you know this. Let’s not do this and have an actual discussion. Because I don’t think I’ve seen a single person ever want to go back to any system used before 1975.
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As usual, you’ve put words in my mouth that I didn’t say. If you wanted to have a discussion. you would have simply answered my question.

Which points system do “most” people want back?
 
aunty dive said:
As usual, you’ve put words in my mouth that I didn’t say. If you wanted to have a discussion. you would have simply answered my question.

Which points system do “most” people want back?
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Full season points where every race pays the same amount of points, no matter the money, the miles, or anything else like that. So 1975 to 2003. Though I’m sure they don’t have to actually use that exact structure where the winner gets 175 plus bonuses. Probably be fine using the point system now, just no playoffs.

The 1972 one changed depending on the mileage in the race. It would be say, 100 points for a win, then points for laps completed, all changing depending on track size.
 
Blaze said:
Full season points where every race pays the same amount of points, no matter the money, the miles, or anything else like that. So 1975 to 2003. Though I’m sure they don’t have to actually use that exact structure where the winner gets 175 plus bonuses. Probably be fine using the point system now, just no playoffs.

The 1972 one changed depending on the mileage in the race. It would be say, 100 points for a win, then points for laps completed, all changing depending on track size.
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Are there any surveys or is there any polling indicating that’s what most people want?
 
Blaze said:
Probably worth making a note, this was before the point system that people want back.
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Hating the current system and the 10 race chase, only means I want a points system that counts all 36 races equally.

It does not mean that I want the 1972 point system back or any others that existed prior to the chase.
 
I want a champion crowned based on the total points from the MOST RECENT 36 CONSECUTIVE races. That way, every race is Game 7 and we get a new chump champ every week. This would also eliminate the 'regular season' questions since there would no longer be one. Banquets will be each Wednesday, rotating between the Charlotte Elks, Moose, VFW, and Kannapolis High gymnasium. The stimulus from the ladies' formal gown sales alone will be a huge boost to the economy. And who knows, after a couple of weeks the Gerbils may melt down.
 
aunty dive said:
As usual, you’ve put words in my mouth that I didn’t say. If you wanted to have a discussion. you would have simply answered my question.

Which points system do “most” people want back?
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I just realized. You put words in MY MOUTH. I never even said most people lol.

I said “this was before the point system that people want back.” The word most isn’t in here.

I also said “I don’t think I’ve seen a single person ever want to go back to any system used before 1975.”

So where are you even getting me saying most from?
 
aunty dive said:
The regular season championship is grotesquely under-promoted by NASCAR and all forms of media and as a result, is under-appreciated by many fans.
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It's about like a pretend date with your sister getting ready for a real date. It only came about when fans complained and like the many band aids they do to make fans feel like this made for TV thing is legitimate, it fails miserably. Nobody cares about the cut up regular season "winner". The gerbils have moved on to the "playoffs" weeks before.
 
Blaze said:
Full season points where every race pays the same amount of points, no matter the money, the miles, or anything else like that. So 1975 to 2003. Though I’m sure they don’t have to actually use that exact structure where the winner gets 175 plus bonuses. Probably be fine using the point system now, just no playoffs.
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Respectfully, no I don’t.
 
I’m going to post an excerpt from an interview with Steve Phelps (Jack Tunney) conducted by Jordan Bianchi of the Athletic. Steve is an absolute boob bought and paid for by the networks that gaslights his own fan base.

Why do you think that the playoff format had such criticism this year compared to years past?

There are a number of factors there. I think you have drivers that really performed well in the playoffs, and you had drivers that didn’t and may have performed better in the regular season. But in that Round of 8, specifically, you had drivers that didn’t perform, and you had four drivers who did — three of them won races and one that pointed their way through. I would suggest based on the format, those four drivers truly deserve to be there. Win-and-you’re-in is really what we heard from fans, and that’s what the industry came up with when they came up with this format (prior to the 2014 season). And if you’re going to get four guys who are not the four highest statistical leaders, then you’re probably going to have some criticism.

Joey (Logano, this year’s champion) performed. He went to Vegas and won, and then went to Phoenix and won. So to me, he’s a deserving champion. He ran the gauntlet of a very difficult, and arguably the most difficult playoffs in all sports. And he is a deserving champion because of that.

I think there are other components of that, too — popularity of drivers. Just consider the Final Four at the Cup level. You’ve got a guy (Logano) who’s now a three-time champion, a guy (Ryan Blaney) who if he had won, would have been a two-time champion, and then two of the most talented young drivers in the garage — Tyler Reddick, the regular-season champion, and William Byron, who just continues to get better. And both those guys are most likely going to be future champions themselves.

Again, I’ll stand by the format because the format also gave us phenomenal racing. I don’t know how you’d suggest that it was anything other than it was just phenomenal. We had good attendance, (TV) ratings were plus-six. I would call our playoffs in all three national series successful.

(You didn’t really tell me anything here Steve except some more corporate gobbedly gook. At 40 my memory probably isn’t as sharp as it used to be but I’m pretty sure win and you’re in was hated as soon as it was instituted. Maybe another follow up question from Jordan will help.)

During the “State of the Sport” address last month, you and (NASCAR COO) Steve O’Donnell alluded that NASCAR would look at some tweaks or adjustments to the playoff format for 2025. Where does that stand, and do you anticipate any changes to the format?

We are going to look at it, and that will be an industry-wide decision, just like the existing format is. So we’ll get a cross-functional team consisting of drivers, teams, NASCAR folks and sit in a room and see if there’s something better. Because for everyone that wants to make a change, you have some on the other side that doesn’t want to make a change. And I heard that all last weekend (during the NASCAR awards ceremony), “Please don’t change the format, the playoff system works really well.” And others were like, “Please change the playoff format.” A lot of it is just personal preference, and I think it’s easy to put your own lens on it. What would be good for my driver? Or what is best for my team? Self-interest is a very powerful thing.

With that said, are we going to make a tweak to it? I’m not sure. But, again, it’ll be getting input from a lot of different places and then from there we will make what we believe is the best decision for the sport overall.

(Let me translate: We aren’t tweaking anything! You will take your champions with a 17.1 average and like it along with copious amounts of Game 7 moments that make this sport quintessential! Our TV Network Overlords love the playoff system so we love it too. You will also love it.)

(Okay Steve here’s one more chance, the age old question of entertainment vs sport. But you know they’re kind of one and the same but I digress. Take it away Jordan…. )

How difficult is it to balance entertainment versus sport? Every sport deals with this to varying degrees because you want to have an entertaining product, but you also have a competition. How much is this a struggle for NASCAR as you go through this process?

That’s a really good question. To me, as long as you don’t cross the line where it’s just not authentic and it’s gimmicky — and that line is probably different for everyone. With that said, we are about entertainment, and we need to entertain our race fans. We need to have compelling racing and a compelling product on the racetrack. That’s what they’ve come to expect from us, and that’s what they’re going to get moving forward. So again, whether there’s a tweak to it or a wholesale change or nothing, we’ll make sure that we are looking through that lens of entertainment versus making sure we are being authentic and true to who we are as a sport.

(Your playoff system is authentic and gimmicky. You’ve crossed many lines over the last 10 years. So all Steve is saying we’ll keep pushing that line back as long as you are entertained. Many people are also entertained by a car wreck, murder of CEO’s playing out in the media, WWE wrestling, and so on. I guess racing in itself isn’t entertaining enough. )

So my conclusion if you made it this far is no, no chance in hell they’re changing this format.

And here is the full article for those with access to The Athletic, grateful there’s some auto racing coverage this deep in the off season.

www.nytimes.com

NASCAR president Steve Phelps on the charter deal, the playoff format and more

NASCAR president Steve Phelps talks about the season, schedule innovation, a playoff format under fire and much more.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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Jorge De Guzman said:
I’m going to post an excerpt from an interview with Steve Phelps (Jack Tunney) conducted by Jordan Bianchi of the Athletic. Steve is an absolute boob bought and paid for by the networks that gaslights his own fan base.

Why do you think that the playoff format had such criticism this year compared to years past?

There are a number of factors there. I think you have drivers that really performed well in the playoffs, and you had drivers that didn’t and may have performed better in the regular season. But in that Round of 8, specifically, you had drivers that didn’t perform, and you had four drivers who did — three of them won races and one that pointed their way through. I would suggest based on the format, those four drivers truly deserve to be there. Win-and-you’re-in is really what we heard from fans, and that’s what the industry came up with when they came up with this format (prior to the 2014 season). And if you’re going to get four guys who are not the four highest statistical leaders, then you’re probably going to have some criticism.

Joey (Logano, this year’s champion) performed. He went to Vegas and won, and then went to Phoenix and won. So to me, he’s a deserving champion. He ran the gauntlet of a very difficult, and arguably the most difficult playoffs in all sports. And he is a deserving champion because of that.

I think there are other components of that, too — popularity of drivers. Just consider the Final Four at the Cup level. You’ve got a guy (Logano) who’s now a three-time champion, a guy (Ryan Blaney) who if he had won, would have been a two-time champion, and then two of the most talented young drivers in the garage — Tyler Reddick, the regular-season champion, and William Byron, who just continues to get better. And both those guys are most likely going to be future champions themselves.

Again, I’ll stand by the format because the format also gave us phenomenal racing. I don’t know how you’d suggest that it was anything other than it was just phenomenal. We had good attendance, (TV) ratings were plus-six. I would call our playoffs in all three national series successful.

(You didn’t really tell me anything here Steve except some more corporate gobbedly gook. At 40 my memory probably isn’t as sharp as it used to be but I’m pretty sure win and you’re in was hated as soon as it was instituted. Maybe another follow up question from Jordan will help.)

During the “State of the Sport” address last month, you and (NASCAR COO) Steve O’Donnell alluded that NASCAR would look at some tweaks or adjustments to the playoff format for 2025. Where does that stand, and do you anticipate any changes to the format?

We are going to look at it, and that will be an industry-wide decision, just like the existing format is. So we’ll get a cross-functional team consisting of drivers, teams, NASCAR folks and sit in a room and see if there’s something better. Because for everyone that wants to make a change, you have some on the other side that doesn’t want to make a change. And I heard that all last weekend (during the NASCAR awards ceremony), “Please don’t change the format, the playoff system works really well.” And others were like, “Please change the playoff format.” A lot of it is just personal preference, and I think it’s easy to put your own lens on it. What would be good for my driver? Or what is best for my team? Self-interest is a very powerful thing.

With that said, are we going to make a tweak to it? I’m not sure. But, again, it’ll be getting input from a lot of different places and then from there we will make what we believe is the best decision for the sport overall.

(Let me translate: We aren’t tweaking anything! You will take your champions with a 17.1 average and like it along with copious amounts of Game 7 moments that make this sport quintessential! Our TV Network Overlords love the playoff system so we love it too. You will also love it.)

(Okay Steve here’s one more chance, the age old question of entertainment vs sport. But you know they’re kind of one and the same but I digress. Take it away Jordan…. )

How difficult is it to balance entertainment versus sport? Every sport deals with this to varying degrees because you want to have an entertaining product, but you also have a competition. How much is this a struggle for NASCAR as you go through this process?

That’s a really good question. To me, as long as you don’t cross the line where it’s just not authentic and it’s gimmicky — and that line is probably different for everyone. With that said, we are about entertainment, and we need to entertain our race fans. We need to have compelling racing and a compelling product on the racetrack. That’s what they’ve come to expect from us, and that’s what they’re going to get moving forward. So again, whether there’s a tweak to it or a wholesale change or nothing, we’ll make sure that we are looking through that lens of entertainment versus making sure we are being authentic and true to who we are as a sport.

(Your playoff system is authentic and gimmicky. You’ve crossed many lines over the last 10 years. So all Steve is saying we’ll keep pushing that line back as long as you are entertained. Many people are also entertained by a car wreck, murder of CEO’s playing out in the media, WWE wrestling, and so on. I guess racing in itself isn’t entertaining enough. )

So my conclusion if you made it this far is no, no chance in hell they’re changing this format.

And here is the full article for those with access to The Athletic, grateful there’s some auto racing coverage this deep in the off season.

www.nytimes.com

NASCAR president Steve Phelps on the charter deal, the playoff format and more

NASCAR president Steve Phelps talks about the season, schedule innovation, a playoff format under fire and much more.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Phelps is delusional as he!!. He is bought and payed for by the networks. Networks never lie! 😂😂
 
Efisher131 said:
“Win and you’re in is what we heard from fans”

Are you kidding? NO ONE was asking for that!
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It is all an extension of their ability to twist any sort of fan feedback or commentary into any entirely separate thought. Perhaps fans wanted to see a greater reward for winning races throughout the numerous 2004-2013 iterations of the Chase. That could’ve meant more points for race winners (190, 195, 200?) and/or more bonus points at the 10-race Chase reset/seeding. Somehow that’s interpreted into win-and-in and a full-blown knockout-style playoff format. As long as they continue to operate like that, I have no faith that any “tweak” will result in meaningful change.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Perhaps fans wanted to see a greater reward for winning races throughout the numerous 2004-2013 iterations of the Chase. That could’ve meant more points for race winners (190, 195, 200?) and/or more bonus points at the 10-race Chase reset/seeding. Somehow that’s interpreted into win-and-in and a full-blown knockout-style playoff format.
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As viewed through BZF's lenses of booze and drugs.
 
The win and you are in is so phony, more so than the rest of it IMO. It has the capability of putting drivers who have no business at all in the top 16 while eliminating drivers that can have a slim chance if they get hot to advance and possibly make a story that the TV'ers and some of the fans are looking for. Besides that it is legit if it happens. It sticks in my craw when they drool over a driver whose one win came from a restrictor plate race and they go on like he won the lottery and we are supposed to be buying what they are selling? This ain't racing.
 
StandOnIt said:
The win and you are in is so phony, more so than the rest of it IMO. It has the capability of putting drivers who have no business at all in the top 16 while eliminating drivers that can have a slim chance if they get hot to advance and possibly make a story that the TV'ers and some of the fans are looking for. Besides that it is legit if it happens. It sticks in my craw when they drool over a driver whose one win came from a restrictor plate race and they go on like he won the lottery and we are supposed to be buying what they are selling? This ain't racing.
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Like they tried to tell me Harrison Burton had a shot to advance this year or McDowell a few years back. I watch the races, I know what a playoff filler looks like. It’s just a complete waste of time in that regards.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Like they tried to tell me Harrison Burton had a shot to advance this year or McDowell a few years back. I watch the races, I know what a playoff filler looks like. It’s just a complete waste of time in that regards.
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What isn't publicized is with the fluky points system fudging up the works, there is a whole lot of money involved in making the playoffs. My view is they are taking the money out of the hands of teams at the lower end of the 16th place and giving it to some contenders who's chances of legitimately being good enough to run in the area of 16th place slim at best.
RFK Buescher is a good example this year of a team that a playoff spot with the extra funds would have gone a long way in making them a better team for this year but they were knocked out by a couple of win and you are in teams that had no business being there.
 
StandOnIt said:
What do you like about it?
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A winner of a race is rewarded. While the extra points are "nice" to me the real reward of winning a race is entry into the playoffs. Some of these teams outside of the top tier have little or no chance to make the playoffs otherwise. These teams might be able to hit a setup, focus on key races where they think they have a chance or make a gutsy call to win and frankly I find that exciting. It also guarantees that you never know all the playoff drivers until the final race of the regular season is over. Harrison Burton last year was a good example. That kid and team was thrilled to just get into the playoffs and I enjoyed seeing it happen. If you are a team consistently running in the 14th - 16th points position, I don't see much difference between that consistency and a team running 26th. With 16 drivers getting into the playoff I don't see it as an issue. I would probably feel different if only 10 or so drivers made it in.
 
DIDIT said:
Some of these teams outside of the top tier have little or no chance to make the playoffs otherwise. These teams might be able to hit a setup, focus on key races where they think they have a chance or make a gutsy call to win and frankly I find that exciting.
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Funny, this is exactly why some of us don't like 'Win and In'. Those teams that are in only because of a single fluke win have next to no chance of advancing beyond round 1. I wouldn't even mind that except that it guarantees they will finish no worse than 16th for the season. One win in a season that otherwise would be 28th screws a consistent mid-teens team out of a chunk of money.

Perhaps I'd be less disdainful if eliminated playoff teams were returned to their pre-playoff positions instead of being locked in.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Funny, this is exactly why some of us don't like 'Win and In'. Those teams that are in only because of a single fluke win have next to no chance of advancing beyond round 1. I wouldn't even mind that except that it guarantees they will finish no worse than 16th for the season. One win in a season that otherwise would be 28th screws a consistent mid-teens team out of a chunk of money.

Perhaps I'd be less disdainful if eliminated playoff teams were returned to their pre-playoff positions instead of being locked in.
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Sure, I can see where that is an issue and not sure I would have a big problem reverting back to the original position. On the other hand, the team that pulled off a win gets the reward vs a team that routinely runs 17th. That 17th place team didn't take the chance or experience the "racing luck" that the winning team did. It's a really big deal to win a cup race so the reward is justified in my opinion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Funny, this is exactly why some of us don't like 'Win and In'. Those teams that are in only because of a single fluke win have next to no chance of advancing beyond round 1. I wouldn't even mind that except that it guarantees they will finish no worse than 16th for the season. One win in a season that otherwise would be 28th screws a consistent mid-teens team out of a chunk of money.

Perhaps I'd be less disdainful if eliminated playoff teams were returned to their pre-playoff positions instead of being locked in.
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Can't say it's my favorite idea, but it sure would add some legitimacy to this win and you are in nonsense.
Following the money, this helping the little guy angle. The 21 crew survives by being the red headed step child of the richest team in Nascar Penske. The driver who got the win isn't there anymore because he was that terrible. Some story huh.
 
DIDIT said:
Sure, I can see where that is an issue and not sure I would have a big problem reverting back to the original position. On the other hand, the team that pulled off a win gets the reward vs a team that routinely runs 17th. That 17th place team didn't take the chance or experience the "racing luck" that the winning team did. It's a really big deal to win a cup race so the reward is justified in my opinion.
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Tbh with the way it’s set up, you get enough winners a driver who’s ran like top 5 or 6 all year could get pushed to the best they can finish is 17th. So it might not necessarily be a team that ran roughly 17th.
 
Booked Phoenix for the farce next year. You guys carry on.
 
Blaze said:
Tbh with the way it’s set up, you get enough winners a driver who’s ran like top 5 or 6 all year could get pushed to the best they can finish is 17th. So it might not necessarily be a team that ran roughly 17th.
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True, but my point has been focused on the reward of winning a race and making the playoffs. Where a team ultimately finishes in the points is really a different discussion than "no one likes the win and your in" rule. I do.
 
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