Our Best Ideas For Modifying The Chase

Conover

Conover

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Since NASCAR has stated they are looking closely at tweaking the points and championship system, let’s get your best ideas on paper for a BETTER system. I’m convinced NASCAR will insist on playoffs, but perhaps alterations could help it be better.

Here is my idea, based upon continued use of a 10 race playoffs format:

Playoffs begin with top 16 drivers. The REGULAR SEASON CHAMPION participates but automatically earns a spot in the PLAYOFF FINALS.

After every two races, 4 drivers at the rear in points are eliminated.

The PLAYOFF FINALS includes the regular season champion and the top 4 finishers through the playoffs first 6 races (can be 4 drivers plus champion if the regular season champ finishes behind the top 4 drivers). Points are reset at zero for finals drivers. A unique points system is used for those drivers with strong reward for wins. Driver at the top in points at the end of those 4 races is champion.

In this format, the regular season champion gets a huge reward by qualifying for the finals. The 4 or 5 drivers in the finals compete at four unique tracks to gain wins and points, with the champion proving himself in a points system.
 
No more playoffs. Whole season based on the points system that exists now (e.g. 40 points to win, 35 for second; 5 for pole, 1 for fast lap). No more cautions for stages ending nor points because removing the playoffs ends the disincentive that existed to not try. If you're that concerned with drivers not being willing to try/"points race" as a result of simplifying things, offer up cash prizes to be leading or in a top 5 position at halfway or at the traditional stage breaks. You can also tie those in with one of the two All Star events you have as qualifying criteria.

Racing, whether it be on foot, with animals, with boats, cars, planes, anything, is always the first sport to come into existence because it is simple to understand for anyone. It shouldn't require more than a sentence or two to describe how a champion is crowned. If you are having competitors come away better off from a competition not winning than those who did, there is nothing you can do to make that make sense to anyone who isn't invested already.
 
virtualbalboa said:
No more playoffs. Whole season based on the points system that exists now (e.g. 40 points to win, 35 for second; 5 for pole, 1 for fast lap). No more cautions for stages ending nor points because removing the playoffs ends the disincentive that existed to not try. If you're that concerned with drivers not being willing to try/"points race" as a result of simplifying things, offer up cash prizes to be leading or in a top 5 position at halfway or at the traditional stage breaks. You can also tie those in with one of the two All Star events you have as qualifying criteria.

Racing, whether it be on foot, with animals, with boats, cars, planes, anything, is always the first sport to come into existence because it is simple to understand for anyone. It shouldn't require more than a sentence or two to describe how a champion is crowned. If you are having competitors come away better off from a competition not winning than those who did, there is nothing you can do to make that make sense to anyone who isn't invested already.
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I get it, but the premise of my exercise is that NASCAR is absolutely committed to a playoff system, which I believe they are.
 
Conover said:
I get it, but the premise of my exercise is that NASCAR is absolutely committed to a playoff system, which I believe they are.
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One of the reasons people compare NASCAR to WWE so much is not just the similarities in the business' structure historically and the strongman leadership role the CEO has always filled, but also down to strategies they use. Vince McMahon was obsessed with the notion of "moments" - realize that every time a wrestler was pointing at the Wrestlemania sign up until he was jettisoned for using company funds to rape women and pay to silence them, Vince was in the back "on gorilla" screaming into the mic that transmits to the Ref and commentary team to orchestrate it.

NASCAR under Brian and Jim France is much the same: "we need more game 7 moments". "Game 7 Moments" are only that because they are rare; if they become the norm then they cease to become special. Everyone's heard or said some variation of that. So how do you present the possibility of a Game 7 moment without engineering them to happen every time? Part of the reason why it's easier to go completely back to basics rather than a nuanced version of the playoffs is because NASCAR obviously has a tendency to put their finger on the scale and affect outcomes in ways they determine benefit them. What I'd like to do is limit their capacity to do that until they prove themselves reliable again. I don't know if there's a good way to do that in a postseason scenario that doesn't just result in them going back to what they have now. I don't think they even perceive that there is an issue.
 
Honestly, I cant come up with a best idea.
A couple questions regarding your suggestions.
What tracks would you propose for the final four races?
Are you eliminating the win and your in, with your top 16 drivers?
Giving the regular season champion an automatic bid into the final four is too much of a reward in my book. If points are reset that basically gives them 6 glorified test sessions with no risk. I also could see where the big teams could use this to manipulate the results to their advantage.

I think I am OK with the one race winner takes all. In many sports, some of which I have been involved, there are teams and players that just have that game 7 moment in them which I have always admired and respect.
 
Conover said:
I get it, but the premise of my exercise is that NASCAR is absolutely committed to a playoff system, which I believe they are.
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You can put lipstick on a pig to make it look better, but it still is a pig. Until they have the emperor has no clothes on moment in the France family, nothing will change.
 
Start calling it the Chase again for starters (Elliott fans will love it). Next, cut the championship eligible field to 12, eliminating four cars after each of the first two rounds of three races. Lastly, make the final round four races with each of the major track styles (short track, intermediate, superspeedway and road course -- Watkins Glen, Talladega, Martinsville and Vegas, in that order, for example.)
 
DIDIT said:
Honestly, I cant come up with a best idea.
A couple questions regarding your suggestions.
What tracks would you propose for the final four races?
Are you eliminating the win and your in, with your top 16 drivers?
Giving the regular season champion an automatic bid into the final four is too much of a reward in my book. If points are reset that basically gives them 6 glorified test sessions with no risk. I also could see where the big teams could use this to manipulate the results to their advantage.

I think I am OK with the one race winner takes all. In many sports, some of which I have been involved, there are teams and players that just have that game 7 moment in them which I have always admired and respect.
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Not sure about the tracks/schedule, but ideally the last 4 would represent the best tracks with variety, like a superspeedway, short track, road course and 1-1/2 mile oval. In my opinion the best 4 for that time of year would be Atlanta, the Roval, Martinsville and Homestead.

I would not eliminate the “win you’re in” for the first 6 races. The last 4 (playoff finals) champion would be strictly by the points generated during those final 4 races.

Understand the concern for the regular season champion gets bonus. I just want the title to really mean something beyond a nice trophy. He would still have to start from zero at the start of the finals.
 
Jimbo Slice said:
Start calling it the Chase again for starters (Elliott fans will love it). Next, cut the championship eligible field to 12, eliminating four cars after each of the first two rounds of three races. Lastly, make the final round four races with each of the major track styles (short track, intermediate, superspeedway and road course -- Watkins Glen, Talladega, Martinsville and Vegas, in that order, for example.)
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I like your suggestions as well.
 
virtualbalboa said:
If you're that concerned with drivers not being willing to try/"points race" as a result of simplifying things, offer up cash prizes to be leading or in a top 5 position at halfway or at the traditional stage breaks.
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Awarding points at stages is a lot cheaper than cash. NASCAR doesn't have to find a continuing sponsor to pay for points.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Awarding points at stages is a lot cheaper than cash. NASCAR doesn't have to find a continuing sponsor to pay for points.
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Of course. The request though was to provide ideas on how the series should hand out championships. Giving points costs nothing directly but has an indirect cost in that now you have to explain how these points work, how they count to the series title, blahblahblah. I'd rather the drivers get $50K to finish first at halfway and we get a tabulation of how much money they've made this year in graphics during the broadcast and in sponsor activation and whatever. That's something people can understand and relate to, not "WTF is a playoff point?"
 
virtualbalboa said:
Of course. The request though was to provide ideas on how the series should hand out championships. Giving points costs nothing directly but has an indirect cost in that now you have to explain how these points work, how they count to the series title, blahblahblah. I'd rather the drivers get $50K to finish first at halfway and we get a tabulation of how much money they've made this year in graphics during the broadcast and in sponsor activation and whatever. That's something people can understand and relate to, not "WTF is a playoff point?"
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this fella always helps me understand !!PLAYOFF POINTS!!! around the Fall part of the schedule.
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  • Same stage points and race points currently in use EXCEPT race winners get a flat 75 points regardless of stage finishes.
  • 30-race 'regular season'. That's leaves 6 races for a one-round playoffs, 16.6% of the 36 points races; more than enough.
  • No playoff points awarded during a race. No point resets after playoff rounds because there's only one round.
  • After the regular season, the top 9 drivers / teams in points are declared eligible for the championship. That's 25% of the chartered teams. Wins have no effect on playoff eligibility.
  • Those 9 championship eligible drivers start the playoff with the same points they bring in from the regular season. No eliminations; the drivers remain eligible through the entire playoff period regardless of whether they fall out or move back into the top 9. (Possible modification - eligible drivers get double points during the 6 playoff races.)
  • Playoff tracks are rotated in sequence annually.
  • Champion is the eligible driver with the most points at the end.
Or, for your 'not a race fan' friends - After 30 races, the top 9 drivers advance to the 6-race playoff. The one with the most points at the end wins. If a system can't be explained that easily, it needs reconsideration.
 
Oh, and being in the top 9 after the regular season does NOT lock a team into the top 9 at the end of the playoffs. Wherever a team finishes the season in the points standings, rise or fall, that's their final rank. There's no connection between being eligible for the championship and where you finish the season.
 
Get rid of win, and you are in. If we must keep it at least require a top 20 points result to qualify. A Harison Burton type of playoff season should never happen.

I assume the four race elimination rounds are untouchable as well. They could still allow for points position changes for all positions through the field with the exception of P1. The finale winner or best of the final four would still be the champion.

Getting eliminated during any of the cutoffs would only mean that you no longer can win the overall championship. Hypothetically, a driver that misses the playoffs could still race his way into the top ten in points, and someone who makes the playoffs could finish outside of the top 16 with a poor performance during the final 10 races.

it would also ensure that the driver who performs the best throughout the entire season would at least finish in 2nd position. That would help to eliminate some of the lame duck situations with a driver that has already qualified for the next round.

It would also give a driver the opportunity to race his up way to 2nd overall if he had great season with just a bad elimination round.
 
This was brought up in the fall. A guy on X came up with something I could go for. His idea was to make the first round a "wild car round" where the bottom 4 are eliminated after the first race. The top 8 are guaranteed to move on to the next round. It's basically the bottom 8 battling for 4 spots. The remaining rounds would be 3 races each including the final round instead of just one race.
 
MRM said:
His idea was to make the first round a "wild car round" where the bottom 4 are eliminated after the first race.
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Personally, I don't like any format where eliminations or championships hinge on a single race. There are too many factors outside the contenders' control, especially the actions of non-playoff teams.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Personally, I don't like any format where eliminations or championships hinge on a single race. There are too many factors outside the contenders' control, especially the actions of non-playoff teams.
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I couldn't agree with you more, but they will never give up their guaranteed built in game seven Yada yada
 
Greg said:
I couldn't agree with you more, but they will never give up their guaranteed built in game seven Yada yada
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The problem with trying to force a 'Game 7 moment' is that to get there, there have to be games 1 through 6. NASCAR's playoff has no equivalents between the final four drivers.

The other point NASCAR doesn't acknowledge is that few '4 of 7' playoff series actually get to a seventh game, wrapping up in five or six.
 
My favorite was year before last when Chastain was driving like he stole it, Blaney was in full on losing it mode and the gerbils were almost speechless. The whole B.S. house of cards was crumbling.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Personally, I don't like any format where eliminations or championships hinge on a single race. There are too many factors outside the contenders' control, especially the actions of non-playoff teams.
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I have run the math on this a few times for previous seasons. With how playoff points work, it’s almost impossible for a top team to fall out in a single race wild card.

I would also do a 1 race wild card and three 3 race rounds. Keep the 16 car playoffs with win and you’re in for the top 30 in points. Keep playoff points as they currently are. When I have run the numbers on this in previous seasons, this system actually does a good job of crowning a champion that performed well all season.

The playoff points going into the last round and having it be 3 races is a game changer.
 
It's not broken, don't "fix" anything to appease the people who struggle with simple concepts.

Peace out thread.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Personally, I don't like any format where eliminations or championships hinge on a single race. There are too many factors outside the contenders' control, especially the actions of non-playoff teams.
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This is more stick n ball insanity. Anybody gets hurt in the big game they have a time out, haul him off and reload another. If it happens in their Playoffs and it is way more likely to happen with only one track and a whole field of non playoff drivers? Somehow we are supposed to believe this is a genuine way to crown a year long champion?
 
I mean how asleep are Nascar fans? Going into their playoffs Larson and Reddick were neck and neck and the 3 or 4 behind them were close on points also. But hell no, lets cut everybody off, over half of the field so we can have this playoff nonsense and screw a couple of good teams with a couple of win and you are inners. One was in last bleeping place.
 
StandOnIt said:
I mean how asleep are Nascar fans? Going into their playoffs Larson and Reddick were neck and neck and the 3 or 4 behind them were close on points also. But hell no, lets cut everybody off, over half of the field so we can have this playoff nonsense and screw a couple of good teams with a couple of win and you are inners. One was in last bleeping place.
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If you can’t perform when it counts, you don’t deserve to be a champion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
'When it counts' is part of the debate. Is it the last race, the last ten races, or all 36?
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Mixture of all three. You have to perform well enough in the regular season to make it to the playoff and accumulate enough playoff points to advance through the playoffs (or win at the right time, which is also performing). You then have to win in the Championship Four.

Like any endeavor in life, you have to perform when it counts.
 
The same except the championship round is 3 races instead of one. Kicks off at Daytona, then Dega, then finally Atlanta. Eliminates the manufacturer drama, as the nature of those tracks means they have to work together anyway.
 
hmmm298 said:
The same except the championship round is 3 races instead of one. Kicks off at Daytona, then Dega, then finally Atlanta. Eliminates the manufacturer drama, as the nature of those tracks means they have to work together anyway.
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Nice monster, Dr. Frankenstein. The villagers are gathering the pitchforks and torches.
 
1. Twelve drivers make the "Chase"
2. Regular seasons points leader advances to final round
3. Four drivers eliminated after each round
4. Final round consists of four drivers competing for points across three races, with a huge emphasis on wins
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Personally, I don't like any format where eliminations or championships hinge on a single race. There are too many factors outside the contenders' control, especially the actions of non-playoff teams.
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At least eliminate some of the pretenders after the first race.
 
Quit with the whole season championship thing and return to the idea that the reason for bringing your car to the track is to win that day's race.

Sure, have some type of season long points system but award the driver with the most season points nothing more than a cheap plastic trophy and a wet kiss from some hawt wimen.

It's my understanding that in the very early days of NASCAR, drivers weren't really aware of the point standings and the champion didn't even know he was the champion until after the season was over.

Make the focus of the race season nothing more than winning races with a generous financial reward (and the ability to kiss the trophy girl) going to the winner . . . . . period.
 
Naitch said:
Mixture of all three. You have to perform well enough in the regular season to make it to the playoff and accumulate enough playoff points to advance through the playoffs (or win at the right time, which is also performing). You then have to win in the Championship Four.

Like any endeavor in life, you have to perform when it counts.
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So you could theoretically win the first 35 races, be leading by a mile in the last race, get taken out by a lapped car driving like a clown, and still manage to finish 2nd.....and you lose the championship.

I get what you're saying, but there are wayyyyy too many variables. Any system with a points reset before the final race is a joke IMO.
 
I can't get on board with years ago cautions for balloons, water bottles and pieces of tinfoil that were used as excuses to throw cautions so they can show commercials. Fox's side by side is about as good as it is going to get along with stage break cautions to show their commercialism. Myself, I seldom watch them. I have something cued up on Youtube to watch instead.
The playoffs IMO were dreampt up to increase viewership and that goes for any version they have come up with IMO. It's not working, never has worked, and all it has done is given the talking heads at the networks something to justify their empty heads over.
The talking heads could do the same thing with a season long points race. Most fans could care less about either type of points race until the season is coming to a close. Racing fans are there to watch racing, all this ancillary B.S. while the race is going on is just static and gets in the way of the race on the track.
This last version following the last place car and missing the action elsewhere on the track is an insult to anyone with half a brain.
 
Conover said:
Not sure about the tracks/schedule, but ideally the last 4 would represent the best tracks with variety, like a superspeedway, short track, road course and 1-1/2 mile oval. In my opinion the best 4 for that time of year would be Atlanta, the Roval, Martinsville and Homestead.
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It does makes some sense to have a diverse schedule for the final four races, but I think a super speedway and road course race presents too much of a wild card result. When it comes down to determining a champion the driver and team should be primarily in charge of the outcome. I would be OK with something like Homestead, Martinsville, Darlington and Charlotte and NO gimmick tire choices.

Let's DOIT for one year and see what happens.
 
StandOnIt said:
I can't get on board with years ago cautions for balloons, water bottles and pieces of tinfoil that were used as excuses to throw cautions so they can show commercials.
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I remember those days, There was a little french guy that would randomly show up at the track each week. I think they called him Jacques Debris.
 
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