23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

KTMLew01 said:
Some need to have someone to hate. I don't know any of these people nor truly care enough about any of them to develop anything close to hate. Whole thing puzzles me.
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I can't stand hamlin and root against him every weekend, but I still want him out there so my guys can beat him and there is certainly no denying his talent as one of the best drivers on the track.
 
Greg said:
When the time comes Hamlin should be a first ballot Nascar Hall Famer.
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No doubt he belongs…but he’s still a dick. Not just play acting as a black hat….a genuine stinky nasty one. We’ve all known these types. His presence on the track makes for great fun when he screws up his pit speed, or gets wrecked out of the race, or has a hissy fit because, in his narcissistic mind, it’s ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT!
 
Conover said:
No doubt he belongs…but he’s still a dick. Not just play acting as a black hat….a genuine stinky nasty one. We’ve all known these types. His presence on the track makes for great fun when he screws up his pit speed, or gets wrecked out of the race, or has a hissy fit because, in his narcissistic mind, it’s ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT!
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Through the years, I have never been a big fan or a Hamlin hater. I think he has a massive ego along with some incredible talent.
I do think the haters have made him a lot more fun to watch the last three or four years.

He can be a jerk and his own worse enemy, especially with the pit road speeding penalties to match the outstanding skills.

But he isn't vanilla, and he moves the needle. I really like it when he taunts the fans with some smack talk, like I beat your favorite driver. I hope he keeps on pissing them off, just for the giggles

Maybe I have a twisted sense of humor, but that stuff makes me want to laugh, along with the way Chastain rimmed the wall and eliminated him at Martinsville a couple of years ago.

He is a great driver with a little FU attitude to counter all the corporate lackies and almost countless number of Nascar's yes men.
I will miss him whenever he calls it a career.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Some need to have someone to hate. I don't know any of these people nor truly care enough about any of them to develop anything close to hate. Whole thing puzzles me.
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Why bring up "hate"? No one posted about hating him.

I don't like Hamlin, I think that is the way a lot of fans (and probably people here) feel about him.

He is entertaining, but I'm not sure he is good for the sport.

I think him and Carl Edwards have a lot of Eddie Haskell in them
 
Daytripper said:
I can't stand hamlin and root against him every weekend, but I still want him out there so my guys can beat him and there is certainly no denying his talent as one of the best drivers on the track.
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What’s makes Hamlin so amazing is there has been no drop off in his performance. The guy is still on his game.
 
AlTerego said:
What’s makes Hamlin so amazing is there has been no drop off in his performance. The guy is still on his game.
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It really is amazing when you compare him to others he raced most of his career against like Gordon, stewart, Johnson, now Busch all fell off at Hamlin's age. Harvick lasted a bit longer but his last year or two were subpar as well but hamlin is still winning.
 
Greg said:
When the time comes Hamlin should be a first ballot Nascar Hall Famer.
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Let's wait to see how this turns out before we decide that. If this lawsuit rips apart nascar I don't care about stats it'll be hard to get enough votes to get in.
 
Daytripper said:
It really is amazing when you compare him to others he raced most of his career against like Gordon, stewart, Johnson, now Busch all fell off at Hamlin's age. Harvick lasted a bit longer but his last year or two were subpar as well but hamlin is still winning.
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Gordon's decline was at the hands of JJ. Harvick's decline was really a decline in equipment and him and Rodney were propping that organization up. Busch's decline is equipment. JJ just lost it to me, but if I remember HMS wasn't at the top of it's game either.

What Denise is doing is remarkable, but you also need to remember he was and still is in the best equipment money can buy. What Toyota puts into JGR is second to no one.
 
wi_racefan said:
Gordon's decline was at the hands of JJ. Harvick's decline was really a decline in equipment and him and Rodney were propping that organization up. Busch's decline is equipment. JJ just lost it to me, but if I remember HMS wasn't at the top of it's game either.

What Denise is doing is remarkable, but you also need to remember he was and still is in the best equipment money can buy. What Toyota puts into JGR is second to no one.
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You can make excuses for all those drivers but they all started falling off at about the same age. Gordon wasn't finishing 2nd, he was finishing 15th so JJ was not the fault Busch was not doing well his last two years at gibbs so can't really blame the equipment. Elliot was won a championship while johnson sucked so you can't really say hendrick was the problem. The only thing they all had in common was their age.
 
wi_racefan said:
Let's wait to see how this turns out before we decide that. If this lawsuit rips apart nascar I don't care about stats it'll be hard to get enough votes to get in.
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I agree and this type of stuff will always be a factor. Especially for Hamlin who will already lose some votes for all that has already has happened.

I hope this thing gets settled soon (after a hundred pages), and doesn't go scorched earth for either side.
 
Greg said:
I agree and this type of stuff will always be a factor. Especially for Hamlin who will already lose some votes for all that has already has happened.

I hope this thing gets settled soon (after a hundred pages), and doesn't go scorched earth for either side.
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I think both sides would rather burn it to the ground at this point than give the other side anything.
 
Pat said:
My contribution to the page count.
I think if MJ & company wins, NASCAR might fold.
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Can't say I'd blame them. "You don't like the way we ran it, go find your own tracks and find someone to run it better"
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
Then the Frances might have to actually work for a iving. If the two teams win, NASCAR will find a way to struggle along somehow on a bit less than it currently makes.
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bull****, they've built the ****** sport and the disrespect towards that which many show is ridiculous. Maybe MJ and Denny can work for a ****** living instead of bringing down someone else's work.

If you support this lawsuit you are actively killing stock car racing and there's no way around it and I will hold you as responsible at I hold them.
 
kkfan91 said:
No one thats half the problem. What they want is going to kill it.
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I feel like a settlement on the track issue would be NASCAR owning it but contracting with an outside management firm to run it. If a competitor wants to hold an event there, NASCAR has no say in the decision.

The track ownership is a key part of the illegal monopoly question since NASCAR can ice out any potential competitor.
 
kkfan91 said:
No one thats half the problem. What they want is going to kill it.
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What I said in March also fits;

Naitch said:
Like I have said, I am of two thoughts:

1. NASCAR IS an illegal monopoly.

2. Filing this lawsuit was moronic and could lead to a split in the sport, which would be catastrophic.

I don’t know how you fix the underlying problems in stock car racing but being a bull in a china shop ain’t it. In an ideal world, NASCAR would be controlled by the chartered teams who are investing money into the sport, not a single family but I don’t know how to get there.
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Hamlin is playing with fire.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Then the Frances might have to actually work for a iving. If the two teams win, NASCAR will find a way to struggle along somehow on a bit less than it currently makes.
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Like them or not the France family puts a lot of work into the sport. I despise Denny, but I'll also admit he puts a lot of work into the sport.
 
Naitch said:
If they have to divest the tracks, I wonder who would buy.
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That's the thing; there's a very HIGH probability that at least a few of them would be bulldozed and turned into Amazon warehouses and data centers, which I am overwhelmingly against. Like, I'm sure Daytona would be fine (it would easily get snatched up and any buyer would be moronic to bulldoze it), and Michigan and Talladega would probably be okay since the land value is non-existent, but tracks that are in worse markets or near big cities like Kansas and Richmond could easily be in danger. Best case scenario if they have to "sell" the tracks is that they just create another ISC-type offshoot. That's the biggest reason I don't support the teams in this.
 
Naitch said:
I feel like a settlement on the track issue would be NASCAR owning it but contracting with an outside management firm to run it. If a competitor wants to hold an event there, NASCAR has no say in the decision.

The track ownership is a key part of the illegal monopoly question since NASCAR can ice out any potential competitor.
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Exactly. When they created the Next Gen car was the stake thru the heart of any possible competition.
 
kkfan91 said:
bull****, they've built the ****** sport and the disrespect towards that which many show is ridiculous. Maybe MJ and Denny can work for a ****** living instead of bringing down someone else's work.

If you support this lawsuit you are actively killing stock car racing and there's no way around it and I will hold you as responsible at I hold them.
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I already do. There are a ton of them out there and quite a few in here. Ignorant of the fact that literally hundreds of tracks have gone broke and disappeared while the family Nascar has been in business and have continued to be successful. No good dead goes unpunished when Nascar tried to increase the individual teams worth. Anywhere else in racing a team goes bust and it's fire sale prices for what is left.
 
wi_racefan said:
You have to wonder how many teams are still behind them if it means gaining 1.5 million
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While 1.5 million seems like a lot to us fans, I am not sure how much that means to some of the larger racing organizations. I just did a quick search (AI) on Penske and Hendrick and these are the numbers that came back.

Penske
The total estimated annual operating costs would be:
  • NASCAR: 3 cars x ($15.6M+) = $46.8M+
  • IndyCar: 4 cars x ($8M-$10M) = $32M-$40M
  • IMSA: 2 cars x (€8M-€10M) (approx. $8.5M-$10.5M USD) = $17M-$21M
Hendrick Motorsports' precise operating budget isn't publicly disclosed, but Forbes estimated the team's value at $357 million in 2024 and its sponsorship revenue at $92.67 million in 2023
 
AlTerego said:
What’s makes Hamlin so amazing is there has been no drop off in his performance. The guy is still on his game.
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A lot of the folks who hate him would be sad if Denny was gone.
The sport needs some good antagonists. It'd be boring without them.

I have tons of respect for the fact he's still competing for wins in his mid-40s. Not many drivers have been able to do that.
 
If you consider a team’s EBITDA, then their actual net profit anfter all expenses, you may be surprised how low that is. Another $1.5M straight to the bottom line would be very welcomed!

NASCAR will not FOLD if MJ’s buddy judge rules against them (which is likely). It will be appealed to the same higher court of 7 judges that previously smacked down this guy on previous rulings.
 
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