20 years ago this month.

J

JG2448

Guest
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I feel sorry for the kids growing up today who didn't get to see Jeff and the 24 team in its prime. They had it all. The young, hotshot driver. The best owner. The best crew chief. The best car chief. The best engineers. The best sponsor. The best paint scheme. The best pit crew.

That era will never be duplicated. Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch can only dream of that much success.

47 wins from 1995-1999. Just insane. Stats from bizarro world.

I was a only a kid then, but it had a great impact on my life: Refuse To Lose.

#24Ever
 
His pass of Bill Elliott for the lead is illegal now, still mad
 
NASCAR died when Dale Sr. died. The sport is all hocus pocus, trickery gimmicks and scams now. The ratings and attendance shows this.

I am glad I got to watch NASCAR during a time when Dale Jarrett, Rusty Wallace, Terry Labonte, Bobby Labonte, Jeff Gordon, Mark Martin and Ernie Irvine raced each other during their primes, when racing for points, consistency and endurance actually meant something.
 
The 1998 season was just absurd.

13 wins and 26 top 5s in only 33 races.

Every week, you legitimately thought Wonder Boy was going to win. His jacket was worn in a Trick Daddy video.

A cultural phenomenon.

We will never see anything like that 1995-1999 team ever again.
 
JG2448 said:
A cultural phenomenon.

We will never see anything like that 1995-1999 team ever again.
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How would you compare the competitive level of the rest of the field during those seasons to today's?
 
JG2448 said:
9ce8895d8c1034b8add38f9ac7ecf321.jpg



I feel sorry for the kids growing up today who didn't get to see Jeff and the 24 team in its prime. They had it all. The young, hotshot driver. The best owner. The best crew chief. The best car chief. The best engineers. The best sponsor. The best paint scheme. The best pit crew.

That era will never be duplicated. Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch can only dream of that much success.

47 wins from 1995-1999. Just insane. Stats from bizarro world.

I was a only a kid then, but it had a great impact on my life: Refuse To Lose.

#24Ever
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Man I wanted Bill to win that race
 
aunty dive said:
How would you compare the competitive level of the rest of the field during those seasons to today's?
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Really there isn't as much difference among the comp level as everybody talks about. The difference is the ownership group is smaller and with satellite teams some owners have five or six cars. People don't talk about that angle so much.
 


Time was that man didnt need a nickname, the man himself was the sheet.
Put him in a skirt and call him Ben Hur and he was still a badass.
Getting whipped on the track, well it meant you was really getting whipped. No concession.... I mean "competition" cautions for milk and cookies.

Todays lassies just dont measue up. No little softies in the bleachers complaining about being bored......

To be continued in the next epistle.
 
This is me reliving Jeff Gordon's "insane" 47 wins (with memories of many Mark Martin second place finishes) from 1995-1999...

 
JG2448 said:
9ce8895d8c1034b8add38f9ac7ecf321.jpg



I feel sorry for the kids growing up today who didn't get to see Jeff and the 24 team in its prime. They had it all. The young, hotshot driver. The best owner. The best crew chief. The best car chief. The best engineers. The best sponsor. The best paint scheme. The best pit crew.

That era will never be duplicated. Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch can only dream of that much success.

47 wins from 1995-1999. Just insane. Stats from bizarro world.

I was a only a kid then, but it had a great impact on my life: Refuse To Lose.

#24Ever
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JJ doesn't have to dream of having as much success as Jeff as he has eclipsed him.
 
Robert J Sublett said:
Really there isn't as much difference among the comp level as everybody talks about. The difference is the ownership group is smaller and with satellite teams some owners have five or six cars. People don't talk about that angle so much.
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They don't talk about it because it makes no sense.
 
Personally I believe Gordon is better all-time then Johnson. Johnson is still high on my list, but What Gordon did during that period of time was incredible and there is a couple of years where the championship should have been his. Hard to believe his last title was in 2001
 
Couple of things here

Team Penske--20 years ago and today, not much difference. HMS, Roush, Childress, Penske, and Gibbs were the powerhouses and they still are today. At that time HMS had 3 cars but nobody was scared of the 25. Roush had 3 cars three of which were competitive. Childress 2 cars, Penske 1 and Gibbs 1. So that's 10. Today, that same group has 18 cars between them adding in the satellite teams. The only thing that has really changed is ranking the teams HMS is still at 1, followed by Gibbs, Penske, Childress and then RFR. Yates is gone, Petty, as it was, is gone, Bill Davis is gone, Andy Petree is gone. If anything it is less competitive because the haves have more and there is no room for the Dunleavy's of the world anymore.

Another thing on JJ, I followed him since his ASA days, because he was Adam Petty's teammate at that level. Take nothing from the 7-time champ but I wonder how many he would have w/o Chad. Sure wouldn't be seven. He was a solid driver, but honestly, you didn't hear the wait til he makes Cup like you do with others.
 
Get That 88 Up There !! said:
Personally I believe Gordon is better all-time then Johnson. Johnson is still high on my list, but What Gordon did during that period of time was incredible and there is a couple of years where the championship should have been his. Hard to believe his last title was in 2001
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I think it is JJ's remarkable consistency that makes him better than Jeff but suffice to to say they are both great.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, was the racing "good?"
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Yes ............ the guy with the best team, the best crew chief, the best owner, the best pit crew, the best car, the best engineers and the most money whipped some butt !! :D
 
2 Sweet said:
Yep. :(

If you would have told me at the end of 2001 that Gordon had just won his last championship, I would've called you crazy.
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At the time many Jeff fans considered it a forgone conclusion that he would get 7 champs and 100 wins.
 
kyle18fan said:
Yes ............ the guy with the best team, the best crew chief, the best owner, the best pit crew, the best car, the best engineers and the most money whipped some butt !! :D
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I don't that that's fair. :p
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
JJ doesn't have to dream of having as much success as Jeff as he has eclipsed him.
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I'd put JJ slightly ahead of Gordon too. Granted, Gordon's 1995-1999 run was amazing, but in terms of overall career I give JJ the nod because he's never really had a bad season whereas Gordon had a couple of stretches in his career where he wasn't that good. Jimmie has already surpassed Gordon in championships, and I think he'll eventually pass Gordon in wins too.
 
Robert J Sublett said:
I saw Jeff and Dale. Sr my regret is I did not see the King and Pearson in their primes.
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I saw them all. Glad I did.

Gordon's '98 season was one of the best I have seen. He won on all kinds of tracks, big bucks, and the championship. He was a threat to win every race that season. That doesn't happen that often.
 
ToyYoda said:
I'd put JJ slightly ahead of Gordon too. Granted, Gordon's 1995-1999 run was amazing, but in terms of overall career I give JJ the nod because he's never really had a bad season whereas Gordon had a couple of stretches in his career where he wasn't that good. Jimmie has already surpassed Gordon in championships, and I think he'll eventually pass Gordon in wins too.
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I agree and I am not trying to denigrate Jeff's career in any way but being consistently good is extremely difficult.
 
I'm a Gordon fan but when he came up to Cup he was the first rookie to get a quality ride. At the time the best drivers were older and had put in time running lesser equipment before they got a chance at a quality ride. There were fewer quality rides at that time.
 
Get That 88 Up There !! said:
there is a couple of years where the championship should have been his.
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Driving for the best team in the business and having every opportunity to win it all and then NOT
not winning says to me that he is/was not above everyone else. The fact that he went years with barely a win also says a lot. JG is/was not the best IMO, he just had the best chances.
Regardless of his numbers, he was no match for DE.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
JJ doesn't have to dream of having as much success as Jeff as he has eclipsed him.
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True on a technical term.

He's got the wins, the championships and has won more money to boot.

But I think JJ lacks the credibility? I dont know if that's the right word as I think Jimmie has rightly earned what he has won but I dont know somehow he has gotten them a lot easier with today's NASCAR.
 
Robert J Sublett said:
Couple of things here

Team Penske--20 years ago and today, not much difference. HMS, Roush, Childress, Penske, and Gibbs were the powerhouses and they still are today. At that time HMS had 3 cars but nobody was scared of the 25. Roush had 3 cars three of which were competitive. Childress 2 cars, Penske 1 and Gibbs 1. So that's 10. Today, that same group has 18 cars between them adding in the satellite teams. The only thing that has really changed is ranking the teams HMS is still at 1, followed by Gibbs, Penske, Childress and then RFR. Yates is gone, Petty, as it was, is gone, Bill Davis is gone, Andy Petree is gone. If anything it is less competitive because the haves have more and there is no room for the Dunleavy's of the world anymore.

Another thing on JJ, I followed him since his ASA days, because he was Adam Petty's teammate at that level. Take nothing from the 7-time champ but I wonder how many he would have w/o Chad. Sure wouldn't be seven. He was a solid driver, but honestly, you didn't hear the wait til he makes Cup like you do with others.
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Take any winning driver and separate him from his team and he will falter. Use Harvick as an example, with RCR equipment and his many changes in CC he was never able to rise to the top.
At SHR he gets one of the best CC's in the business today and add to that a bastardy method of winning the championship, he is now a champion.

JJ with his CC and the Chase is a 7 time champion. He is very good but give him the best Roush has to offer and he may struggle to make a top 5.
What I am saying is you can take a very good driver and make him look the best OR you can make him look mediocre. It depends on the team, the ever changing rules and the competition he faces.

JJ has beaten JG every year with the same opportunities.
 
ToyYoda said:
Gordon had a couple of stretches in his career where he wasn't that good.
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That can easily be attributed to having different crew chiefs and having to re-learn and assimilate.

At the same time it speaks to Gordon's ability to adapt and win with different people around him.

Gordon went through 4 different CCs in his career. That's 3 more setbacks that Jimmie never had to deal with.
 
Reck said:
That can easily be attributed to having different crew chiefs and having to re-learn and assimilate.

At the same time it speaks to Gordon's ability to adapt and win with different people around him.

Gordon went through 4 different CCs in his career. That's 3 more setbacks that Jimmie never had to deal with.
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5 CC's if you include Whitesell in the fall of '99.

JG won a few races with Whitesell after Evernham left, and won the 2001 title with Loomis. But some folks think it was all Evernham because they can't give JG credit. Even Dale Earnhardt had down years.
 
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