2019 Spanish Grand Prix

gnomesayin

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Bottas takes another pole. He is definitely stronger this year and looks as if he can give Hamilton a real run, though Hamilton always gets stronger mid-season.

I wish Verstappen had a bit more firepower to work with to keep things interesting, because Ferrari is such a mess.


POS DRIVER Q1 Q2 Q3
1 BOT 1:16.979 1:15.924 1:15.406
2 HAM 1:17.292 1:16.038 1:16.040
3 VET 1:17.425 1:16.667 1:16.272
4 VER 1:17.244 1:16.726 1:16.357
5 LEC 1:17.388 1:16.714 1:16.588
6 GAS 1:17.862 1:16.932 1:16.708
7 GRO 1:18.042 1:17.066 1:16.911
8 MAG 1:17.669 1:17.272 1:16.922
9 KVY 1:17.914 1:17.243 1:17.573
10 RIC 1:18.385 1:17.299 1:18.106
 

FLRacingFan

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Ferrari are in shambles. Literally had the better car for the first two years of the high downforce car and now they're back to getting their asses kicked.

I have no idea what's gotten into Bottas this year. Perhaps Hamilton doesn't have as much of a sense of urgency at the moment, but Bottas is looking to be formidable for once.
 

gnomesayin

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I read an interesting comment that the new minimum driver weight rule may be helping Bottas this year, as he said that starving himself previously to be as light as possible definitely hurt his performance.

With all of their equipment and belts the drivers must weigh 80 kg / 176 lbs or add ballast in the ****pit to meet that weight, so it definitely removes the advantage the smallest drivers had.
 

FLRacingFan

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So hard to pass at this place but I can't imagine Zandvoort being much better in that regard.
 

Get That 88 Up There !!

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Spain either needs to change venues or lose its date. Besides Kvyat’s pass on Kimi literally nothing notable has happened
 

donthaveanickname

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Spain either needs to change venues or lose its date. Besides Kvyat’s pass on Kimi literally nothing notable has happened
There is a good chance that Barcelona loses it's date because the Catalan government seems to no longer be willing to support the GP.

btw. The Brazilian president has stated he would prefer a race at Rio de Janeiro to Interlagos.
 

Doc Austin

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So hard to pass at this place but I can't imagine Zandvoort being much better in that regard.
Watch some of the old films from Zandvoort and it was a pretty racy circuit. If you listen to the drivers, every track is difficult to pass on. I don't believe I have ever heard an F1 driver say there are plenty of overtaking opportunities about any circuit.

I think the problem with overtaking has more to do with the cars than the circuits. Circuits that used to be fine are now "Impossible," and the only thing that has changes is the cars. We never heard anyone complain in the 80s and early 90s that it was impossible to pass on a circuit (except maybe Monaco). You also notice the noses were on the ground and there was no junk hung under the car between the front wheels like every one of today's cars features.

The current cars are just too unstable in each other's wake. Circuit of Americas was supposedly a track that was difficult to pass on, but the Indycars were passing each other all over the place and in just about every turn.

Barcelona has five or six heavy braking zones, but those don't help because you can't get close enough in the turbulence. If you watch any other kind of racing here, overtaking is no problem. Formula One cars are just so screwed up that they can hardly pass anywhere. Without DRS it probably would be really impossible.

Forgive me if I have gone into this before, but the real problem, I believe, is the cars have grown so many tack on aero pieces that they now create a stupid amount of turbulence. I think half of these little pieces are probably designed to create even more turbulence and screw up the air to the car behind even more. I think if there is an answer, it's going to be trimming all the crap off these cars so they produce less turbulence. Indycar just went through revamping their cars to make them race better and their package is much better than before.
 

Mispeedway15

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Ill tell you guys what, I know we talk about NASCAR problems but a team going 1-2 in the first 5 races is not good. I respect it but uh oh Mercedes may have beat the formula
 

FLRacingFan

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Watch some of the old films from Zandvoort and it was a pretty racy circuit. If you listen to the drivers, every track is difficult to pass on. I don't believe I have ever heard an F1 driver say there are plenty of overtaking opportunities about any circuit.

I think the problem with overtaking has more to do with the cars than the circuits. Circuits that used to be fine are now "Impossible," and the only thing that has changes is the cars. We never heard anyone complain in the 80s and early 90s that it was impossible to pass on a circuit (except maybe Monaco). You also notice the noses were on the ground and there was no junk hung under the car between the front wheels like every one of today's cars features.

The current cars are just too unstable in each other's wake. Circuit of Americas was supposedly a track that was difficult to pass on, but the Indycars were passing each other all over the place and in just about every turn.

Barcelona has five or six heavy braking zones, but those don't help because you can't get close enough in the turbulence. If you watch any other kind of racing here, overtaking is no problem. Formula One cars are just so screwed up that they can hardly pass anywhere. Without DRS it probably would be really impossible.

Forgive me if I have gone into this before, but the real problem, I believe, is the cars have grown so many tack on aero pieces that they now create a stupid amount of turbulence. I think half of these little pieces are probably designed to create even more turbulence and screw up the air to the car behind even more. I think if there is an answer, it's going to be trimming all the crap off these cars so they produce less turbulence. Indycar just went through revamping their cars to make them race better and their package is much better than before.
It’s definitely the cars, just exacerbated on smaller, narrower tracks like this. That’s why I don’t see trading off Catalunya for Zandvoort working out racing-wise. Maybe they’ll have a massive crowd for Verstappen but other than that...ehh. F1 definitely needs bigger tracks like Baku, Spa, and China to put on a decent show these days, which isn’t how it should be. Blancpain GT aren’t bad at places like this and Zandvoort. Fingers crossed they actually make some changes for 2021 because it’s so bad right now.
 

Doc Austin

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Ill tell you guys what, I know we talk about NASCAR problems but a team going 1-2 in the first 5 races is not good. I respect it but uh oh Mercedes may have beat the formula
I remember when McLaren Honda was winning 15 out of 16 races and now that's considered a golden era. Same thing with Ferrari winning 15 out of 16 races and five championships in a row. It's not all that entertaining to see that kind of domination, but in later years we came to appreciate the greatness of it.

What we are seeing now is maybe the most dominating team of all time. They have their five in a row and if they can seal this one they will stand lone at 6.
 

Doc Austin

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It’s definitely the cars, just exacerbated on smaller, narrower tracks like this. That’s why I don’t see trading off Catalunya for Zandvoort working out racing-wise. Maybe they’ll have a massive crowd for Verstappen but other than that...ehh. F1 definitely needs bigger tracks like Baku, Spa, and China to put on a decent show these days, which isn’t how it should be. Blancpain GT aren’t bad at places like this and Zandvoort. Fingers crossed they actually make some changes for 2021 because it’s so bad right now.
 

gnomesayin

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Ugh, I'm glad I didn't get up early for this. The series is in a bad place in terms of quality competition.

2021 is too far away, and that's just a hope and prayer they'll make meaningful changes to how the cars race.
 

kyle18fan

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Ugh, I'm glad I didn't get up early for this. The series is in a bad place in terms of quality competition.

2021 is too far away, and that's just a hope and prayer they'll make meaningful changes to how the cars race.


They lost this long time fan
 

Doc Austin

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Guys, there's always Indycar and IMSA of you want to see competitive racing. The Blancpain series is really good too and all of them are on CBS sports. Even as pitiful as the WEC is, at least the GT action is insane. Almost anything is better than F1.

Formula One has let itself get too complicated, and then they tried to spice it up with fake gimmicks like the stupid tire rules and DRS. Instead of spicing it up, they ruined it. They need to start over with a simpler formula and keep it real. Then they might have something.
 

donthaveanickname

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I think the problem with overtaking has more to do with the cars than the circuits. Circuits that used to be fine are now "Impossible," and the only thing that has changes is the cars. We never heard anyone complain in the 80s and early 90s that it was impossible to pass on a circuit (except maybe Monaco). You also notice the noses were on the ground and there was no junk hung under the car between the front wheels like every one of today's cars features.

The current cars are just too unstable in each other's wake. Circuit of Americas was supposedly a track that was difficult to pass on, but the Indycars were passing each other all over the place and in just about every turn.

Barcelona has five or six heavy braking zones, but those don't help because you can't get close enough in the turbulence. If you watch any other kind of racing here, overtaking is no problem. Formula One cars are just so screwed up that they can hardly pass anywhere. Without DRS it probably would be really impossible.

Forgive me if I have gone into this before, but the real problem, I believe, is the cars have grown so many tack on aero pieces that they now create a stupid amount of turbulence. I think half of these little pieces are probably designed to create even more turbulence and screw up the air to the car behind even more. I think if there is an answer, it's going to be trimming all the crap off these cars so they produce less turbulence. Indycar just went through revamping their cars to make them race better and their package is much better than before.
I don't like high-downforce racing. Much like in NASCAR this year, the F1 cars just seem to be running on rails most of the time.
Without DRS, overtaking would be impossible at almost all the tracks.

Does anyone remember the 2012 season, when we had seven different winners in the first seven races, one of them being f***ing Pastor Maldonado?
 

Doc Austin

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I don't like high-downforce racing. Much like in NASCAR this year, the F1 cars just seem to be running on rails most of the time.
There is more to it than just downforce. The real problem is the turbulence, and a lot of this is created by downforce. Indycar reduced the downforce of their cars by about 1500 lbs, and while better, the cars still disturbed each other's air too much. Over the winter they have tested some more pieces designed to reduce turbulence, and so far it looks pretty good. We won't know about the oval package until they run together, probably later in the week.

I believe half of the crap they hang off Formula One cars is designed to screw up the air to the car behind. If you take a look at all the stuff they hang under the car just behind the front wheels, how could any of that not create turbulence?

Without DRS, overtaking would be impossible at almost all the tracks.
Even DRS is easy to defeat if you time your one allowed defensive swerve just right. They let the drivers block like hell, then introduce something fake like DRS, and then allow the drivers to block that too. Everything is stacke against the overtaking driver and then they wonder why there is no overtaking.

Does anyone remember the 2012 season, when we had seven different winners in the first seven races, one of them being f***ing Pastor Maldonado?
Pastor has actually turned into a pretty decent P2 driver. Didn't see that coming.
 

donthaveanickname

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There is more to it than just downforce. The real problem is the turbulence, and a lot of this is created by downforce. Indycar reduced the downforce of their cars by about 1500 lbs, and while better, the cars still disturbed each other's air too much. Over the winter they have tested some more pieces designed to reduce turbulence, and so far it looks pretty good. We won't know about the oval package until they run together, probably later in the week.
I believe half of the crap they hang off Formula One cars is designed to screw up the air to the car behind. If you take a look at all the stuff they hang under the car just behind the front wheels, how could any of that not create turbulence?
Agreed. I think the cars have to be made more simple. Not only the aerodynamics, also the technology. Most fans probably don't understand the high-tech crap anyway.

Even DRS is easy to defeat if you time your one allowed defensive swerve just right. They let the drivers block like hell, then introduce something fake like DRS, and then allow the drivers to block that too. Everything is stacke against the overtaking driver and then they wonder why there is no overtaking.
Wind is also a huge factor. Headwind makes overtaking with DRS a lot easier, especially at tracks with long straightaways like Baku, Monza, Le Castellet or COTA.

Pastor has actually turned into a pretty decent P2 driver. Didn't see that coming.
Nor did I. He won the race in the snow at Spa two weeks ago. I couldn't believe it.
 

Doc Austin

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Agreed. I think the cars have to be made more simple. Not only the aerodynamics, also the technology. Most fans probably don't understand the high-tech crap anyway.
Hell yeah. Like all this hybrid crap is just stupid. Electric is the future and hybrids are just a waste of time and resources. If it's that important to be all green and all, it's important enough to commit to electrics and get them developed. Then we can save the planet and blow green farts out our green butts. Really, if the goal is burning less fossil fuel, and reducing out carbon footprint then a hybrid is just a half assed measure that's preventing us from going forward. Plus, hybrids are so complicated a privateer team doesn't have a prayer of running one. If we absolutely have to have all this stupid green ****, just go all electric and get it over with. At least electrics are reasonable uncomplicated and reliable, neither of which can be said of hybrids.

OK, let's get back to simple cars, which would be DPI/P2. In ELMS they have a huge P2/P3 grid of privateers who can run those cars pretty well, and apparently even make some money. The concept is extremely valid, and made more manufacturer friendly with the DPI rules. At IMSA's recent manufacturers meeting, they have ten car makers interested in joining the series. Pretty sure we won't get than many, but can you name the manufacturers interested in the new hyper car series? Yeah, me neither.

So, I agree completely, but I do see the answer being as simple as IMSA and the FIA sharing a common set of P2/DPI rules.

Wind is also a huge factor. Headwind makes overtaking with DRS a lot easier, especially at tracks with long straightaways like Baku, Monza, Le Castellet or COTA.
The tow they were getting in Baku was just insane. Thankfully no one was swerving around this year. With that kind of speed differential they could have easily had a nasty accident.

He won the race in the snow at Spa two weeks ago. I couldn't believe it.
Maybe Pastor wasn't so bad and it was the Williams that was so awful. I mean, it's pretty awful now, isn't it? Pastor had a few poles and good runs last year and was usually the fastest driver in his car. I don't know if sportscars suit him more, or what, but he's been pretty solid. Surprised me too but I like a good Rocky story.
 

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