2023 Grand Prix of Bahrain

Reck said:
Interesting times at Mercedes. They can’t build fast cars anymore and have Hamilton without a contract after this year.

How do you convince Hamilton to come drive two more years with a ****box? I don’t think the idea is appealing at all.

If Mercedes lose Hamilton to retirement or some other team, they are screwed. Hamilton made a top 10 car into a top 5 today and left George in his own dust.
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There is zero chance that Hamilton will go to another team. He wants to stay as a Mercedes ambassador after he retires.
 
All the celebrating over George scoring more points last year than Hamilton is pretty quiet now. Leweis has a better car to work with this year instead of throwing desperation set ups on the car.

Mercedes fans will be glad to know Toto says they need to start over. I'm betting they can fabricate a new sidepod before the next race, if they don't already have it in the works. I don't completely understand how the Red Bull concept works, but more than one team has their own version of it. Before it's over all these cars are going to look the same.
 
Doc Austin said:
All the celebrating over George scoring more points last year than Hamilton is pretty quiet now. Leweis has a better car to work with this year instead of throwing desperation set ups on the car.

Mercedes fans will be glad to know Toto says they need to start over. I'm betting they can fabricate a new sidepod before the next race, if they don't already have it in the works. I don't completely understand how the Red Bull concept works, but more than one team has their own version of it. Before it's over all these cars are going to look the same.
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Hamilton was clearly better than Russell today it was no contest. It is only my opinion, but I think they were pretty even for the entire body of work last year.

Edited: I was redundant with my comment
 
Doc Austin said:
Hamilton has been with Mercedes since he was 13 years old. Anything is possible, but why would you burn that kind of relationship?
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Lewis was a McLaren driver first and foremost. McLaren just happened to be the works Mercedes team for most of his career (until 2010 when Mercedes took over Brawn).
 
Greg said:
Hamilton was clearly better than Russell today it was no contest. It is only my opinion, but I think they were pretty even for the entire body of work last year.

Edited: I was redundant with my comment
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I was largely checked out for last year so didn't follow the sport like at all. But I read Hamilton was the testing dummy for the team last year hence the gap.

In the end, does it really matter if the team its still 5th and 6th? I think it's moot. lol
 
Doc Austin said:
Hamilton has been with Mercedes since he was 13 years old. Anything is possible, but why would you burn that kind of relationship?
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Would it be a burning bridge type situation? He is literally out of a contract for next year so if a team comes (Let's pretend) to him and offers him a better outlook he could take it up and not ruin his relationship there. It doesn't have to be the Fernando way of burning bridges.
 
Hamilton is a star, and from what I've seen he likes that image. It wouldn't surprise me if he turnes up in IndyCar next year.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Lewis was a McLaren driver first and foremost. McLaren just happened to be the works Mercedes team for most of his career (until 2010 when Mercedes took over Brawn).
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Yeah, you're right the Mercedes connection ran through Ron Dennis. Hamilton just said the other day he's been with Mercedes since he was 13, so I kind of went with that. It all started with Ron Dennis

I don't believe Lewis has ever raced anything in F1 but Mercedes and all his championship came with Mercedes engines. I be would shocked if he left that team. I can't imagine Lewis not being a loyal guy.

Lewis never has to win another race or podium in his career and he will have a lifetime paid gig at Mercedes when all he has to do is shake hands and take pictures with big shots. He's just got to hold on until he retires to make that happen.
 
West said:
Hamilton is a star, and from what I've seen he likes that image. It wouldn't surprise me if he turnes up in IndyCar next year.
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That would be awesome, but I think it's more likely he will work on his music career and other things.
 
Reck said:
Would it be a burning bridge type situation? He is literally out of a contract for next year so if a team comes (Let's pretend) to him and offers him a better outlook he could take it up and not ruin his relationship there. It doesn't have to be the Fernando way of burning bridges.
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It would not be a bridge burning deal, but he's got maybe one more contract extension in him. He may as well finish there and continue building that relationship.

I also don't think the championship is over yet. This is Mercedes. They will get it figured out. Mercedes is still probably his best bet to get another title.
 
Russell was faster than Hamilton on aggregate last year. I actually ran the numbers; finding datasets of every lap time in F1 is not easy or convenient, I'll say that. I wouldn't be so fast to throw the guy under the bus as a no-hoper for the team.

Hotrod's point about this feeling like the Vettel years at Red Bull is spot on, right down to the "Y'all realize that at some point Ferrari is gonna throw all the money at Max and that's how this ends, right?"
 
virtualbalboa said:
Hotrod's point about this feeling like the Vettel years at Red Bull is spot on, right down to the "Y'all realize that at some point Ferrari is gonna throw all the money at Max and that's how this ends, right?"
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The counter point is this is more like Schumacher. Vettel had to fight like hell for at least two of those championships, whereas Schumacher's Ferrari was untouchable. Right now Max looks untouchable.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Russell was faster than Hamilton on aggregate last year. I actually ran the numbers; finding datasets of every lap time in F1 is not easy or convenient, I'll say that. I wouldn't be so fast to throw the guy under the bus as a no-hoper for the team.
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Russell has done what he’s been tasked with doing but Hamilton spent the first half of last year running experimental setups trying to chase down solutions to their concept. About halfway through the season is when they sort of found their way and Lewis started picking up podiums. Iirc, he insisted around the time of his home GP mid-summer that they not run such extreme setups each weekend.

But Russell is sure a great addition to the team and did what he had to. Just that losing that veteran presence and development experience risks being a big loss.
 
The alarm bells have sounded off for real at Mercedes. Both Toto and Lewis have said post-race that it’s especially demoralizing that Aston get “half their car” - engine/gearbox/rear suspension - from Mercedes and Aston even use the Mercedes wind tunnel (!) until their own is finished in 2024.

The problem with the working against the budget cap in this era is that once you commit to a concept it’s increasingly difficult to design and build something completely different. You can’t throw gobs of money at it anymore. You could try to copy Red Bull or Aston (which has ex-Red Bull personnel and design influence) but you’ll always be behind on understanding the concept and maximizing its potential. They still believed in this car enough to carry it over into 2023 but after one weekend it sounds like they’re already punting on this season.
 
Russel had a better year points wise, but outside of that he and Lewis were pretty evenly matched. The points difference was what Hamilton lost early when they were throwing crazy set ups on the car to get around the bouncing. I could say there are past doing that kind of thing, but now Toto is saying they need a new concept and Hamilton is saying they needed it yesterday. If they have to go back to the merry go round of sets ups, that disparity could show up again just like it did last year.

However, I fully expect Mercedes will show up in Saudi with a different floor and sidepods. They had to know it was possible the zeropod thing might now work again, and they have to have a plan B. If you're talking about plan be at the first race you probably don't have a good car.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The alarm bells have sounded off for real at Mercedes. Both Toto and Lewis have said post-race that it’s especially demoralizing that Aston get “half their car” - engine/gearbox/rear suspension - from Mercedes and Aston even use the Mercedes wind tunnel (!) until their own is finished in 2024.

The problem with the working against the budget cap in this era is that once you commit to a concept it’s increasingly difficult to design and build something completely different. You can’t throw gobs of money at it anymore. You could try to copy Red Bull or Aston (which has ex-Red Bull personnel and design influence) but you’ll always be behind on understanding the concept and maximizing its potential. They still believed in this car enough to carry it over into 2023 but after one weekend it sounds like they’re already punting on this season.
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Looks like it. Hit translate

Looks like Toto is dragging James Allison back into the factory. According to this, he's already worked on what's going to be their next upgrade at Imola.

 
aunty dive said:
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Deeply unserious race team.

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