2024 Indycar Schedule Thread

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virtualbalboa

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Here is the 2024 IndyCar series schedule, including a Milwaukee doubleheader, loss of Texas

With its 2024 schedule, the IndyCar series will hold a pair of oval weekend doubleheaders, return to an old venue in Milwaukee and hold a new finale on the streets of Nashville.
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No TMS as allegedly NASCAR basically said "That date belongs to us now" and as such Indycar is gone. Some day Indycar fans will learn that NASCAR doesn't see Indycar as a truly complementary piece in the US motorsports landscape but the only competitor that exists domestically for their two core products, but I doubt today will be that day. Actually, come to think of it, some folks decided that COVID taught them viruses aren't real, so perhaps that day will in fact never come. IDK. At least I went this year and saw a helluva race if Indycar never returns.

Milwaukee is back. Will any of the people who demanded it return to the schedule go? Probably not. So also IDK what to do about that.
 
Just copy paste what I always say
 
Well when you see it put like this, just a general letdown.

But I don’t know where else they can go that isn’t nascar related, I kind of feel like NASCAR and TMS screwed Indy Car here with Cup going back to springtime. Chicagoland and Kentucky sit unused. Rockingham too. What about COTA as a race in Texas? Road Atlanta would be neat and they never went back to that course in NOLA. No races on the East Coast…. can these cars run at Limestone? Id love to see Pocono back in IndyCar, that’d be an East Coaster. I was just hoping for some thinking outside the box but this slate is very uninspiring.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Well when you see it put like this, just a general letdown.

But I don’t know where else they can go that isn’t nascar related, I kind of feel like NASCAR and TMS screwed Indy Car here with Cup going back to springtime. Chicagoland and Kentucky sit unused. Rockingham too. What about COTA as a race in Texas? Road Atlanta would be neat and they never went back to that course in NOLA. No races on the East Coast…. can these cars run at Limestone? Id love to see Pocono back in IndyCar, that’d be an East Coaster. I was just hoping for some thinking outside the box but this slate is very uninspiring.
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There's all kinds of places you could go, and should go. The continued Champ Carification is ruining this sport.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in a world where Indycar was always split but there was a reason I always liked the IRL over CART and ChampCar.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
But I don’t know where else they can go that isn’t nascar related, I kind of feel like NASCAR and TMS screwed Indy Car here with Cup going back to springtime. Chicagoland and Kentucky sit unused. Rockingham too. What about COTA as a race in Texas? Road Atlanta would be neat and they never went back to that course in NOLA. No races on the East Coast…. can these cars run at Limestone? Id love to see Pocono back in IndyCar, that’d be an East Coaster. I was just hoping for some thinking outside the box but this slate is very uninspiring.
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The short version:

COTA: Not interested in paying Indycar but would absolutely accept Indycar as a rental. That means Indycar would be on the hook for all the promotion costs and such while losing a percentage of the gate. Their GM is on record as saying that it is not the job of COTA to grow Indycar; their focus is F1. Entirely F1.

NOLA: Indycar fans will pitch a fit.

Lime Rock: Would need a ton of work before Indycar considered it safe to run on. The runoff is pretty middling there with some high speeds. Also the uphill would probably not work with Indycars and that's like half the fun of the circuit.

Pocono: Ownership is more interested in constructing an industrial marijuana growing operation. Again, the issue is paying Indycar. NASCAR essentially brings money with their TV contract with each race being worth about as much as the entire Indycar schedule. The portion the tracks get far exceeds the ticket sales gross and the cost to get on the schedule. NASCAR going back to one date also reduces their income stream and makes the renovations Indycar would like for the infield and catch fencing much less likely.

VIR: Too narrow.

Rockingham: Speeds would probably be astronomical for the circuit, it is well outside of Indycar's geographically (isolated?) fanbase, and again, they would need to pay to have the race. Can they cut a check for a million dollars for a series? Probably not.

Consolidation of track ownership has all sorts of bad, anticompetitive effects and this is just some of it. There will be people crying for Kentucky to have a race, but Kentucky is being allowed to go to seed right now having effectively failed as a venue. Chicagoland may not even exist in 2-3 years either even as people talk up the possibility of Cup returning there after a 2024 street race.
 
kkfan91 said:
There's all kinds of places you could go, and should go. The continued Champ Carification is ruining this sport.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in a world where Indycar was always split but there was a reason I always liked the IRL over CART and ChampCar.
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I loved CART. Growing up I actually liked it more than NASCAR, I loved everything everything about it from the foreign drivers to racing all over the world to the sleekness of the cars. I could understand your point though, seems like the folks that run Indy Car are just always one step behind chasing what was and not sure what they want to be
 
virtualbalboa said:
The short version:

COTA: Not interested in paying Indycar but would absolutely accept Indycar as a rental. That means Indycar would be on the hook for all the promotion costs and such while losing a percentage of the gate. Their GM is on record as saying that it is not the job of COTA to grow Indycar; their focus is F1. Entirely F1.

NOLA: Indycar fans will pitch a fit.

Lime Rock: Would need a ton of work before Indycar considered it safe to run on. The runoff is pretty middling there with some high speeds. Also the uphill would probably not work with Indycars and that's like half the fun of the circuit.

Pocono: Ownership is more interested in constructing an industrial marijuana growing operation. Again, the issue is paying Indycar. NASCAR essentially brings money with their TV contract with each race being worth about as much as the entire Indycar schedule. The portion the tracks get far exceeds the ticket sales gross and the cost to get on the schedule. NASCAR going back to one date also reduces their income stream and makes the renovations Indycar would like for the infield and catch fencing much less likely.

VIR: Too narrow.

Rockingham: Speeds would probably be astronomical for the circuit, it is well outside of Indycar's geographically (isolated?) fanbase, and again, they would need to pay to have the race. Can they cut a check for a million dollars for a series? Probably not.

Consolidation of track ownership has all sorts of bad, anticompetitive effects and this is just some of it. There will be people crying for Kentucky to have a race, but Kentucky is being allowed to go to seed right now having effectively failed as a venue. Chicagoland may not even exist in 2-3 years either even as people talk up the possibility of Cup returning there after a 2024 street race.
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I don’t remember the NOLA race being that bad, maybe my memory betrays me. I’m just throwing tracks out there in a feeble attempt to just find some place for this series to race at. I truly believe it’s the most exciting form of racing in North America, im just so bummed we get lackadaisical schedules year after year and that month off early in the season makes me want to pull my hair out. I thought I read, Indy Car gets high ratings in the Carolina’s and that’s why I threw out The Rock. I think the tire fall off in terms of their speed around track would be fascinating to watch
 
kkfan91 said:
There's all kinds of places you could go, and should go. The continued Champ Carification is ruining this sport.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in a world where Indycar was always split but there was a reason I always liked the IRL over CART and ChampCar.
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They go where they’re wanted, paid, and there’s availability. Not sure how many times this needs to be explained, you don’t make up race dates out of thin air.

Texas - NASCAR swoops in - after an extension and date has already been agreed to (April 7) - and says we want a spring date now too, the week after (April 14). IndyCar’s date is now untenable because the track doesn’t want their two closest dates right next to each other. SMI try to save face by offering September 7-8, which would conflict with the same things NASCAR is trying to get away from (immense heat and football season). It would also mean six races in five weekends to end the season - not happening.

IndyCar reaches an agreement with Richmond for 2020 and beyond, the contract gets cancelled during COVID, ISC/NASCAR says it didn’t sell enough tickets (mind you, the race was set for late June and they’re making this decision off of presales as of mid-March 2020). The track didn’t sign a title sponsor either. They now have a new track president with a marketing/sales background, so maybe it would work now, but that relationship has been soured for the time being.

IndyCar reaches an agreement with Homestead for an oval race, the agreement would also include combined oval/roval spring training. It reaches the corporate NASCAR level for final approval and gets squashed.

IndyCar simply has next to no leverage when it comes to oval racing in this country.
 
FLRacingFan said:
They go where they’re wanted, paid, and there’s availability. Not sure how many times this needs to be explained, you don’t make up race dates out of thin air.

Texas - NASCAR swoops in - after an extension and date has already been agreed to (April 7) - and says we want a spring date now too, the week after (April 14). IndyCar’s date is now untenable because the track doesn’t want their two closest dates right next to each other. SMI try to save face by offering September 7-8, which would conflict with the same things NASCAR is trying to get away from (immense heat and football season). It would also mean six races in five weekends to end the season - not happening.

IndyCar reaches an agreement with Richmond for 2020 and beyond, the contract gets cancelled during COVID, ISC/NASCAR says it didn’t sell enough tickets (mind you, the race was set for late June and they’re making this decision off of presales as of mid-March 2020). The track didn’t sign a title sponsor either. They now have a new track president with a marketing/sales background, so maybe it would work now, but that relationship has been soured for the time being.

IndyCar reaches an agreement with Homestead for an oval race, the agreement would also include combined oval/roval spring training. It reaches the corporate NASCAR level for final approval and gets squashed.

IndyCar simply has next to no leverage when it comes to oval racing in this country.
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And the thing is this - you can sit here and type all of these things, every one of which is true. And in response, what you'll get are people saying "Well, Roger is supposed to negotiate better." You can't negotiate successfully with someone who willfully chooses to not consider your position, needs, etc. It's impossible.
 
Pretty clear positives and negatives here.

The Good:

Iowa #1 and Gateway at night - Gateway especially races better at night, both events had pretty oppressive heat during a summer midday. IndyCar races depend on butts in seats, and this move should help with both events drawing better.

Thermal - I like this, it’s a big money event, and otherwise there wouldn’t be ANY race for a month and a half after St. Pete. Very much made for TV, but that’s okay.

Milwaukee - Classic track, everyone has been clamoring for it for years, and I think it races much better than Gateway. Will people show up? I sure hope so. Penske Entertainment is promoting this one, so I hope they continue to bring it like they do Detroit and Iowa.

Nashville - There aren’t many ways to generate hype once football season starts, and while Laguna is a revered old-school track, it’s a bit of a sleepy setting out there for a finale. Nashville will be a major promotional effort with a big crowd.

The Bad:

Fewer races on NBC, one more on Peacock, more on USA

The Ugly:

Texas - enough said.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I don’t remember the NOLA race being that bad, maybe my memory betrays me. I’m just throwing tracks out there in a feeble attempt to just find some place for this series to race at. I truly believe it’s the most exciting form of racing in North America, im just so bummed we get lackadaisical schedules year after year and that month off early in the season makes me want to pull my hair out. I thought I read, Indy Car gets high ratings in the Carolina’s and that’s why I threw out The Rock. I think the tire fall off in terms of their speed around track would be fascinating to watch
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NOLA was that disaster of a race where it poured and poured and the track didn’t have adequate drainage (the track itself is super flat) and it was just a sloppy mess. It got called shortly after halfway. Now, it’s pretty much resigned to being a club track, plus one GTWC America weekend (if you still consider that a major pro sports car series - I don’t).
 
I loves me some Rockingham but I would definitely let some other series give it a shot first. It hasn't successfully hosted anything since the repave, and the management's one previous event was an incredibly botched music festival. Sure, the track has been repaved, but the garages and facilities are still behind the curve. People forget or don't know that Roger owned Rockingham before he sold it to SMI; he knows what shape it's in and how it couldn't draw fans at the height of NASCAR's popularity.

I recall saying this year's Texas race was the first event there by any series that I truly enjoyed. Glad I got to see it.

Pocono - the infield has multiple road course configurations. Run those; catch fence problem solved, and it adds a track within travel distance of parts of the northeast. In fact, it could host a double-header and run a different config on each day.

New Hampshire?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I loves me some Rockingham but I would definitely let some other series give it a shot first. It hasn't successfully hosted anything since the repave, and the management's one previous event was an incredibly botched music festival. Sure, the track has been repaved, but the garages and facilities are still behind the curve. People forget or don't know that Roger owned Rockingham before he sold it to SMI; he knows what shape it's in and how it couldn't draw fans at the height of NASCAR's popularity.

I recall saying this year's Texas race was the first event there by any series that I truly enjoyed. Glad I got to see it.

Pocono - the infield has multiple road course configurations. Run those; catch fence problem solved, and it adds a track within travel distance of parts of the northeast. In fact, it could host a double-header and run a different config on each day.

New Hampshire?
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Poconos road course is club level at best. There's nothing wrong with the oval. If they would stop trying 3 wide in the tunnel turn in lap 1 they'd be fine. Ironically when they pushed the inside wall out after Elliott Sadlers crash it shot cars back across the track in Indycar ones.
 
Not running a race in the northeast is the most asinine thing ever. Indycar just shooting themselves in the foot there. Pocono is dangerous but just as much so as Indianapolis. The Wickens crash could have just as easily happened at Indy or Texas.

Lime Rock would be a great venue. If they use the chicane they can avoid the hill. The only iffy spot is the final turn would probably be taken flat-out and speeds over 140mph.
 
Pocono lost ABC Supply as title sponsor and the fencing is much worse than Indy or Texas.

I’d like to see them go to Watkins Glen again, but the lost time they tried that (as replacement for the failed Boston street race) crowds were sparse and it got canned.
 
kkfan91 said:
There's all kinds of places you could go, and should go. The continued Champ Carification is ruining this sport.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up in a world where Indycar was always split but there was a reason I always liked the IRL over CART and ChampCar.
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The dirty little secret about the IRL is that all those oval events were mostly subsidized by NASCAR fans who had to buy a track’s season ticket package to get into the NASCAR events during the boom period. It’s not a coincidence that as NASCAR started to decline in popularity, IndyCar oval events started to fall by the wayside.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The dirty little secret about the IRL is that all those oval events were mostly subsidized by NASCAR fans who had to buy a track’s season ticket package to get into the NASCAR events during the boom period. It’s not a coincidence that as NASCAR started to decline in popularity, IndyCar oval events started to fall by the wayside.
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It's not even much of a secret IMO. Most people have heard it a bunch of times but can't compute that it was a way for ISC and SMI to generate additional income that was basically just NASCAR income but siphoned through Indycar. Even more to the point, it is well known in the existing publicly available documentation from the split that the IRL was undercutting CART to get venues, throwing races sometimes for free to the venue as loss leaders to win the split. The final big "oops" in terms of long term consequences was the 2012 Vegas race. They rented LVMS, which pissed off ISC because they were being asked to pay for races. Then they essentially blamed SMI for the death of Wheldon on how the catch fencing was constructed rather than look in the mirror and take any responsibility whatsoever for a 34 car race at a track where drivers were vocal that a bad wreck was almost certain in the pack conditions they had.

A lot of this stuff is out there and in the public domain, but no one wants to look at it because it's a lot easier to argue "Roger Penske hates oval racing and grassroots motorsports" even if it's the same week that Roger Penske is running the BC39. No one wants nuance, they want easy black and white answers that appeal to their preconceived notions of the racing world.
 
I'm happy to see Milwaukee back on the schedule but not happy to see Portland lose the Labor Day weekend race.

Also think the back and forth across the US is bad planning. Gateway to Portland and back to Milwaukee?
 
Ovals are no more dangerous than road courses in the end. You can get hurt anywhere. Vegas was a tragic accident but it was not a reason to condemn oval racing. For wheel to wheel action open wheel road courses are boring as sin unless you like seeing which strategist can do math problems faster. I'd love to like Indycar but it puts on bad racing most of the time and the "purists" don't want to hear it. It used to actually be exciting, but when you are the dumping ground of guys who couldn't make F1 they are going to want to run stuff that they are better at than learn a new discipline. The idea that you can't race somewhere is preposterous. You can race anywhere if you put in the effort. At this point might as well just ditch the whole thing let the road course guys go do sports cars and oval guys can do silver crowns make that that top open wheel oval it be better.
 
kkfan91 said:
Ovals are no more dangerous than road courses in the end. You can get hurt anywhere. Vegas was a tragic accident but it was not a reason to condemn oval racing. For wheel to wheel action open wheel road courses are boring as sin unless you like seeing which strategist can do math problems faster. I'd love to like Indycar but it puts on bad racing most of the time and the "purists" don't want to hear it. It used to actually be exciting, but when you are the dumping ground of guys who couldn't make F1 they are going to want to run stuff that they are better at than learn a new discipline. The idea that you can't race somewhere is preposterous. You can race anywhere if you put in the effort. At this point might as well just ditch the whole thing let the road course guys go do sports cars and oval guys can do silver crowns make that that top open wheel oval it be better.
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You're approaching this the wrong way. It isn't that "Indycar is afraid of ovals" or whatever. The issue is that the super speedways in the United States are owned almost exclusively by either NASCAR or SMI and NASCAR as an entity has no desire to assist in the promotion and expansion for Indycar. They, in fact, are incentivized moreso to either force Indycar out of oval racing or out of business to reduce competition in the US market.
 
kkfan91 said:
Ovals are no more dangerous than road courses in the end. You can get hurt anywhere. Vegas was a tragic accident but it was not a reason to condemn oval racing. For wheel to wheel action open wheel road courses are boring as sin unless you like seeing which strategist can do math problems faster. I'd love to like Indycar but it puts on bad racing most of the time and the "purists" don't want to hear it. It used to actually be exciting, but when you are the dumping ground of guys who couldn't make F1 they are going to want to run stuff that they are better at than learn a new discipline. The idea that you can't race somewhere is preposterous. You can race anywhere if you put in the effort. At this point might as well just ditch the whole thing let the road course guys go do sports cars and oval guys can do silver crowns make that that top open wheel oval it be better.
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You lost me right here. The danger of intermediate ovals is a contributing reason to why Indycar doesn't race on them. Not the reason, but contributing. If it's harder than other tracks to get a date from ISC/SMI on an intermediate, and it's more dangerous than other venues, why pursue it?
 
kkfan91 said:
Ovals are no more dangerous than road courses in the end. You can get hurt anywhere. Vegas was a tragic accident but it was not a reason to condemn oval racing. For wheel to wheel action open wheel road courses are boring as sin unless you like seeing which strategist can do math problems faster. I'd love to like Indycar but it puts on bad racing most of the time and the "purists" don't want to hear it. It used to actually be exciting, but when you are the dumping ground of guys who couldn't make F1 they are going to want to run stuff that they are better at than learn a new discipline. The idea that you can't race somewhere is preposterous. You can race anywhere if you put in the effort. At this point might as well just ditch the whole thing let the road course guys go do sports cars and oval guys can do silver crowns make that that top open wheel oval it be better.
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IndyCar oval racing is undoubtedly more dangerous than IndyCar road course racing or NASCAR oval racing, simply because open wheel cars can get launched into the catch fence when they collide at speeds in excess of 350 kph.
That said, several safety improvements have been made following the tragic deaths of Wheldon and Wilson.
IndyCar speedway racing is the most exciting kind of racing on four wheels imo and it's a damn shame it's gone except for the Indy 500 now.
This schedule just sucks, plain and simple.
 
virtualbalboa said:
You're approaching this the wrong way. It isn't that "Indycar is afraid of ovals" or whatever. The issue is that the super speedways in the United States are owned almost exclusively by either NASCAR or SMI and NASCAR as an entity has no desire to assist in the promotion and expansion for Indycar. They, in fact, are incentivized moreso to either force Indycar out of oval racing or out of business to reduce competition in the US market.
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Yeah, we have IMS, Milwaukee, and Gateway that are all independently-owned and operated. Then Iowa is a track which NASCAR has more or less given up on and rents out to Penske and HyVee for the weekend. NASCAR and SMI have little to no interest in paying a sanctioning fee for IndyCar races, and you can’t just race for free, nor is there a bazillion-dollar TV deal that could afford to let the series race in front of empty grandstands.

If you’re mad at Penske and IndyCar, you’re directing your anger towards the wrong people. Roger Penske hasn’t owned a top-level NASCAR team for decades because he doesn’t like oval racing, that’s asinine. He’s actually on record multiple times saying they want more ovals on the calendar. But two companies in particular control the vast majority of viable ovals in this country and neither is obligated nor incentivized to partner with IndyCar.
 
donthaveanickname said:
IndyCar oval racing is undoubtedly more dangerous than IndyCar road course racing or NASCAR oval racing, simply because open wheel cars can get launched into the catch fence when they collide at speeds in excess of 350 kph.
That said, several safety improvements have been made following the tragic deaths of Wheldon and Wilson.
IndyCar speedway racing is the most exciting kind of racing on four wheels imo and it's a damn shame it's gone except for the Indy 500 now.
This schedule just sucks, plain and simple.
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Compare the product of on-track action between the Indycar race at TMS this past spring and any NASCAR race at TMS in recent memory. If you are NASCAR and you know you have to run two races a year at TMS to keep SMI from being sued into oblivion by the City of Fort Worth, do you want more Indycar races at that track that look like that when your Cup races at TMS have been...well..."something"? NASCAR has all the leverage in this situation. ALL THE LEVERAGE.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yeah, we have IMS, Milwaukee, and Gateway that are all independently-owned and operated. Then Iowa is a track which NASCAR has more or less given up on and rents out to Penske and HyVee for the weekend. NASCAR and SMI have little to no interest in paying a sanctioning fee for IndyCar races, and you can’t just race for free, nor is there a bazillion-dollar TV deal that could afford to let the series race in front of empty grandstands.

If you’re mad at Penske and IndyCar, you’re directing your anger towards the wrong people. Roger Penske hasn’t owned a top-level NASCAR team for decades because he doesn’t like oval racing, that’s asinine. He’s actually on record multiple times saying they want more ovals on the calendar. But two companies in particular control the vast majority of viable ovals in this country and neither is obligated nor incentivized to partner with IndyCar.
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Yes. All of this. Yes. What prevents people from seeing it is not logic but emotions, and facts have an awful time caring about people's feelings.
 
kkfan91 said:
Ovals are no more dangerous than road courses in the end. You can get hurt anywhere. Vegas was a tragic accident but it was not a reason to condemn oval racing. For wheel to wheel action open wheel road courses are boring as sin unless you like seeing which strategist can do math problems faster. I'd love to like Indycar but it puts on bad racing most of the time and the "purists" don't want to hear it. It used to actually be exciting, but when you are the dumping ground of guys who couldn't make F1 they are going to want to run stuff that they are better at than learn a new discipline. The idea that you can't race somewhere is preposterous. You can race anywhere if you put in the effort. At this point might as well just ditch the whole thing let the road course guys go do sports cars and oval guys can do silver crowns make that that top open wheel oval it be better.
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The only two fatalities on road/street courses in the last half-century were Jeff Krosnoff, Toronto ‘96, and Gonzalo Rodriguez, Laguna Seca ‘99. In the same time, there’ve been eleven on ovals, so that doesn’t really add up to your conclusion. That’s all beyond the point anyways - it’s not about safety, and all about financial interests.

Maybe you don’t watch much, because I think many fans here and elsewhere would probably agree that this season had very good road/street course racing for the most part, and they’d probably also say IndyCar is some of the most competitive road course racing around. Ironically, Indianapolis and Gateway are the races that most tend to be econo runs with the current packages.

And again, you are showing your ass…this has nothing to do with F1 washouts or underfunded F2 youngsters dictating what the schedule looks like. Ask Marcus Ericsson and he’d tell you how much he fell in love with oval racing, Marcus Armstrong spent most of the year begging Chip Ganassi to run an oval, Grosjean dipped his toe in the water his first season and decided to jump in head-first afterwards…I could go on and on.
 
nickp said:
the Texas scheduling issue really caught Indycar off guard
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Milwaukee being a doubleheader, with the first race on Peacock, seems to support that. There weren’t any reports of this happening until within the past week, and I doubt IndyCar wants to race first on Saturday while there are 80k in Madison for Wisconsin’s football opener.
 
nickp said:
the Texas scheduling issue really caught Indycar off guard
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As Marshall Pruett is reporting now, clearly they made every attempt to keep Texas on the schedule and at the end of the day, TMS wasn't willing to work with Indycar. It's like arguing that Ukraine needs to make a peace deal with Russia: if the other side isn't interested in a compromise, there is no deal to possibly be made.
 
The sooner IndyCar realizes ovals is what can propel the sport, the sooner they can really see a bump. WoO has seen a major bump in recent years popularity wise, yet none of these terrific open wheel drivers have any desire to race in the premier open wheel series. Why? Well maybe because the predominant grassroots style of racing are ovals in this country
 
Mispeedway15 said:
The sooner IndyCar realizes ovals is what can propel the sport, the sooner they can really see a bump. WoO has seen a major bump in recent years popularity wise, yet none of these terrific open wheel drivers have any desire to race in the premier open wheel series. Why? Well maybe because the predominant grassroots style of racing are ovals in this country
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I'd love to see more guys try to make the transition, but the cars are nothing alike and even from the perspective of oval racing, Indycars don't remotely drive like 410 sprints. The infrastructure and operations from a team perspective is radically different. An acquaintance of mine who actually did the hard work of interviewing people as part of academic research into racing made the point to me after I asked him why the top tier USAC drivers (and really, sprint car guys too) didn't transition into the IRL to the degree expected or claimed that the Truck Series was also created at that time. It was much closer to what those guys had been running and they were a lot more comfortable with it. A lot of people don't even care about Indy. Flat out - you don't grow up with that as your pinnacle, it might as well be Dakar or Monaco.

Besides, going all ovals doesn't fix the most significant problem, which is getting paid money. NASCAR Cup drivers make more than their equivalent Indycar drivers. Period. Logan Schuchart probably made more than half the Indycar grid in one day this year in 410s. Why leave to race something that costs 20x as much, is somehow more dangerous than a 410 dirt sprint, and for which you have no experience in a similar vehicle?
 
You know, I'm 40 years old. I've been online posting nonsense about racing since the 90s on USENET at places like rec.autos.sport.indy (and RASC too...and RASN...) and really, it's only today, just now, literally sitting on the toilet after that post, that I've really recognized at long last that the entire "Indycar owners and drivers want to kill oval racing because they hate it!" thing is projection. I know there's no truth to it. It doesn't even make sense. It never has. I've known for awhile that the expectation from some is that Indycar should or must abandon road/street circuits and should abandon anyone foreign in favor of Americans (many of whom have shown zero inclination to participate!) from dirt track backgrounds. Very often, the dirt racing series cited was most specifically USAC because of historical ties going back to an era when fuel injection was yet to be normalized, even as they have fallen to perhaps the 4th or 5th most important such dirt series in the country.

But now I have clarity. The Us vs. Them narrative doesn't come from within Indycar, it comes from outside. It doesn't even take into account the actual dynamics of dirt racing, the desires of the competitors, the economics of the sport, anything really. It's a projected two sided conflict which exists to justify a position that makes no sense. Indycar can't pay drivers what NASCAR does in 2023 and trying to go oval only will not work in any way financially. Why not just ask them to sell to NASCAR? That's the logical final step in all this, isn't it?
 
I'm not too worried about the loss of Texas because it will probably be back eventually. I'de rather they didn't go anyway if the best the place can provide is the PNJ slip and slide. If they can get rid of that stuff and make the place racy again, I'de be delighted to see it return, but not the way things are currently.

The good news is we get two Milwaukee races, so it's a net gain.
 
I wonder if it’s time to worry about Iowa now that Cup is headed there. It’ll probably be a summer race not too far away from the IndyCar weekend, and I think there’s been a noticeable downtick at Gateway since Cup went there too…
 
FLRacingFan said:
I wonder if it’s time to worry about Iowa now that Cup is headed there. It’ll probably be a summer race not too far away from the IndyCar weekend, and I think there’s been a noticeable downtick at Gateway since Cup went there too…
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Like I said in the Cup schedule thread, we'll end up with a quadruple-header at Milwaukee...
 
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