2025 Rule Changes

StandOnIt said:
You could be right. Give it a shot at qualifying, but uf that doesn't work take the provisional. My question is he was already named for the spot, what happens if someone else comes along? Time for Nascar's rubber rule book I guess.
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That's the only way it makes sense to me. I don't think a team would voluntarily enter a car that's not eligible for prize money.
It's probably something to fall back on similar to the past champion's provisional.
 
DIDIT said:
I could see multiple drivers/teams applying for an open exemption provisional for the Daytona 500 and NASCAR would need to decide who is the most "significant contributor." Soon thereafter followed by a lawsuit.
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LOL

..and what's with it being only world class "race car drivers" they allow in? That sounds like discrimination against non race car drivers to me. What does nascar think they have the monopoly on race car drivers or something? This could get dicey! 😅
 
I don't think a free slot with no prize money is going to send teams running to field extra cars.

For the last several years, most of the fields have been less than 40 cars. A 'world class' guest driver would have qualified easily. Despite that near-guaranteed start, few teams have brought out extra cars and drivers for those slots.

If they weren't doing it with prize money on the line, why would they do it with the potential of no payoff?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't think a free slot with no prize money is going to send teams running to field extra cars.

For the last several years, most of the fields have been less than 40 cars. A 'world class' guest driver would have qualified easily. Despite that near-guaranteed start, few teams have brought out extra cars and drivers for those slots.

If they weren't doing it with prize money on the line, why would they do it with the potential of no payoff?
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My reading of the Jayski post is the same as yours - if you use it, you get no prize/purse money, and that money very much defrays the cost of entering a car. This makes sense TBH in the context of the sorts of drivers they are trying to lure in (let's just say it: Formula 1/Indycar drivers) since those guys rarely ever race for purses anyhow and are used to bringing their funding with them in exchange for "exposure".

Having said that, again, let's put on our thinking caps for a moment. Like you said - most fields are in reality closer to 36 than 40 because being a non-chartered entry greatly reduces your ability to recoup expenses via prize funds (they get a far smaller cut). Most of the drivers they're talking about are being brought in on deals where a sponsor is involved and paying the costs. Obviously this is just about writing in a clause to the agreements and such to permit NASCAR to lock in a big time racing driver rather than risk a Fernando Alonso Misses Indy 500 situation. This also means that there will never be a Fernando Alonso Misses Indy 500 Situation in NASCAR again, which makes me really wonder why we continue to bother with the Duels beyond that it must fulfill some sort of TV agreement to wreck that many cars.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Obviously this is just about writing in a clause to the agreements and such to permit NASCAR to lock in a big time racing driver rather than risk a Fernando Alonso Misses Indy 500 situation. This also means that there will never be a Fernando Alonso Misses Indy 500 Situation in NASCAR again, which makes me really wonder why we continue to bother with the Duels beyond that it must fulfill some sort of TV agreement to wreck that many cars.
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Think outside the D500 box. This exemption can be used for any race on the schedule.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Think outside the D500 box. This exemption can be used for any race on the schedule.
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Sure, but Exposure ≥ Cost is not going to take place on one of the Amazon races. It's only going to be used at events where there is a sufficient TV audience and any concern that 4 open cars show up. That inherently means Dayonta/Talladega for the same reason a YouTuber is going to qualify for the ARCA event.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Sure, but Exposure ≥ Cost is not going to take place on one of the Amazon races. It's only going to be used at events where there is a sufficient TV audience and any concern that 4 open cars show up. That inherently means Dayonta/Talladega for the same reason a YouTuber is going to qualify for the ARCA event.
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Exposure hasn't seem to be a driving factor in previous Project 91 appearances.

I don't get your YouTube / ARCA reference. That may be because over 90% of my YouTube viewing is music videos, mostly before 2000.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Exposure hasn't seem to be a driving factor in previous Project 91 appearances.

I don't get your YouTube / ARCA reference. That may be because over 90% of my YouTube viewing is music videos, mostly before 2000.
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Exposure is entirely the driving factor for those appearances.

Garrett Mitchell of Omaha, NE, the 15th fastest driver on the charts in practice (faster than Helio Castroneves or Brendan Queen, both of whom were involved in a crash allegedly caused by Amber Balcaen), has professional racing experience consisting of:

-riding shotgun in street races to document them for 1320 Video
-Owns some fast drag cars he runs at Bradenton
-Various Crown Vic and Ford Ranger freakshow races
-An appearance with the Robby Gordon Stadium Super Trucks series where he actually nearly won (but instead crashed coming to the finish line)

He also has a YouTube channel with 4 million subscribers. Huh. I was told someone like him might not even be able to figure out how to get the car into gear.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Exposure might be the driving force for the team and sponsors.. but I feel like a Daytona 500 (or any nascar race) trophy would be a good enough reason for the drivers to want to do it.
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Exposure for the sponsors is what pays for the car and the driver, ergo, it is the relevant factor here. NASCAR also letting wrecked cars rejoin the race is being done for a similar purpose - makes sure the rolling billboards are out there rolling, even if they're 59 laps down. No super famous and wealthy racing driver is reaching into their pocket to fish out half a million dollars just to say they raced the Daytona 500 without the possibility of recouping some of that. Even someone like a Cooper MacNeil would want to use it as a business write off, which is also why he or Ben Keating people like them probably won't meet the criteria unless NASCAR gets desperate for entries.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Exposure for the sponsors is what pays for the car and the driver, ergo, it is the relevant factor here. NASCAR also letting wrecked cars rejoin the race is being done for a similar purpose - makes sure the rolling billboards are out there rolling, even if they're 59 laps down. No super famous and wealthy racing driver is reaching into their pocket to fish out half a million dollars just to say they raced the Daytona 500 without the possibility of recouping some of that. Even someone like a Cooper MacNeil would want to use it as a business write off, which is also why he or Ben Keating people like them probably won't meet the criteria unless NASCAR gets desperate for entries.
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I can see where this could turn into a self promotion nightmare unless NASCAR can get a better handle on just who qualifies for this exemption or is it possible that this is going to be the planted seed to NASCAR promoting "Look who is racing NASCAR this weekend?" Maybe NASCAR even pays them out of their own pocket. Yep, come see Taylor Swift in the Swifty 500 this Sunday...just imagine.

Making money is quite important to many, but there are many different ways to recoup an investment.

Something I always find interesting is how we think "a half a million dollars" is a lot of money. To put that in perspective a billionaire spending $500,000 is the same as a millionaire spending $500. Chump change to the wealthy.
 
DIDIT said:
I can see where this could turn into a self promotion nightmare unless NASCAR can get a better handle on just who qualifies for this exemption or is it possible that this is going to be the planted seed to NASCAR promoting "Look who is racing NASCAR this weekend?" Maybe NASCAR even pays them out of their own pocket. Yep, come see Taylor Swift in the Swifty 500 this Sunday...just imagine.

Making money is quite important to many, but there are many different ways to recoup an investment.

Something I always find interesting is how we think "a half a million dollars" is a lot of money. To put that in perspective a billionaire spending $500,000 is the same as a millionaire spending $500. Chump change to the wealthy.
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They gave themselves a barrier with a "world class driver" being who can get it. It's a promotional tool: "Come see Sergio Perez in Mexico City!" If Sergio Perez misses the race, now that's an issue. I, of course, think having drivers miss races is fine, but I also get that this is just a resuscitation of a promoter's provisional and clearly NASCAR is concerned that you might have bought a ticket or tuned in to see someone only to find out they aren't there.

There are a great many professional racing drivers who've achieved wealth and fame, and almost all of them have done so by being paid to race cars, not the reverse. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a driver who became wealthy solely because of driving who didn't prioritize being paid vs. paying, which, you know, makes a lot of sense.
 
Helio is going to race his ass off. The chips will fall where they may. Nascar has the hammer on who gets to do the provisional. It opens up the race to other drivers all over the world. I don't see it being a bad thing unless they let clowns in.
 
I like the changes to the DVP policy. If a car is still repairable to maintain minimum speed or better, let it continue. The only thing I don't want to see is how it used to be with parts falling off poorly repaired cars.
 
MRM said:
I like the changes to the DVP policy. If a car is still repairable to maintain minimum speed or better, let it continue. The only thing I don't want to see is how it used to be with parts falling off poorly repaired cars.
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Sounds like the old crash cart is going to be moved to the garage.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Sure, but Exposure ≥ Cost is not going to take place on one of the Amazon races. It's only going to be used at events where there is a sufficient TV audience and any concern that 4 open cars show up. That inherently means Dayonta/Talladega
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Charlie Spencer said:
Exposure hasn't seem to be a driving factor in previous Project 91 appearances.
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virtualbalboa said:
Exposure is entirely the driving factor for those appearances.
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From Trackhouse's web site, https://www.trackhouseracing.com/team/project-91:
PROJECT91 has raced four times with appearances by 2007 Formula One World Champion Kimi Räikkönen at Watkins Glen (N.Y.) International in 2022 and at Circuit of the Americas in Austin, Texas in 2023. Three-time Supercars champion Shane van Gisbergen won at Chicago in his debut NASCAR Cup race in July and again drove a PROJECT91 car to a 10th-place finish on the road course at Indianapolis Motor Speedway in August.
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No previous P91 entries at Daytona or Talladega. Either exposure isn't a factor in the races they choose, or those tracks get more exposure than you seem to think.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
From Trackhouse's web site, https://www.trackhouseracing.com/team/project-91:

No previous P91 entries at Daytona or Talladega. Either exposure isn't a factor in the races they choose, or those tracks get more exposure than you seem to think.
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The exposure was from Kimi racing the car and he probably wanted to run at a road course. He's done ovals before after all and likely has an understanding that he'd be more likely to be successful turning left and right. The majority of times it's going to happen will be at the superspeedways though because they're the biggest races. I mean, I guess if you want to get a big fat own on me, it can be by Sergio Perez starting 41st at the race in Mexico in Red Bull or Telmex livery, but that's basically where it begins and ends.
 
virtualbalboa said:
They gave themselves a barrier with a "world class driver" being who can get it. It's a promotional tool: "Come see Sergio Perez in Mexico City!" If Sergio Perez misses the race, now that's an issue. I, of course, think having drivers miss races is fine, but I also get that this is just a resuscitation of a promoter's provisional and clearly NASCAR is concerned that you might have bought a ticket or tuned in to see someone only to find out they aren't there.

There are a great many professional racing drivers who've achieved wealth and fame, and almost all of them have done so by being paid to race cars, not the reverse. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a driver who became wealthy solely because of driving who didn't prioritize being paid vs. paying, which, you know, makes a lot of sense.
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I am thinking more of where this might be headed down the road vs the current rule NASCAR published for this year. Obviously Swifty ain't gonna race, just a bit of over dramatization on my part.

I can remember in Y2K driving up to Rockingham for a race and my driver Dave Blaney failed to qualify. It was a bummer but given it was Blaney and his rookie year only an handful of us really cared.
 
DIDIT said:
I am thinking more of where this might be headed down the road vs the current rule NASCAR published for this year. Obviously Swifty ain't gonna race, just a bit of over dramatization on my part.

I can remember in Y2K driving up to Rockingham for a race and my driver Dave Blaney failed to qualify. It was a bummer but given it was Blaney and his rookie year only an handful of us really cared.
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I could be wrong but I don't think it is for that. I think if is for lice an F-1 or a supercar, or a Rolex winner
 
virtualbalboa said:
The exposure was from Kimi racing the car and he probably wanted to run at a road course. He's done ovals before after all and likely has an understanding that he'd be more likely to be successful turning left and right. The majority of times it's going to happen will be at the superspeedways
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I see the driver's choice playing a bigger role in the track selection than where the team thinks they'll get the most TV exposure. I realize P91 isn't going to be the only source of guest drivers but right now they're all we have to go on. All previous participation has been on twisties. As you noted, that's where most 'world class' drivers have the most experience. Helio is the first to express an interest in an oval. I can't see too many guest drivers wanting to participate in a plate race.

As from the exposure side, most of these 'world class' guests are going to draw larger-than-usual international audiences just by their participation. That's the exposure NASCAR is interested in. As you said, the US audience is already at maximum for the wreckfests; those don't need a boost.
 
StandOnIt said:
Helio is going to race his ass off. The chips will fall where they may. Nascar has the hammer on who gets to do the provisional. It opens up the race to other drivers all over the world. I don't see it being a bad thing unless they let clowns in.
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This is Garage 56 for NASCAR...wouldn't it be cool if a Lewis Hamilton (who has expressed interest) took a shot at the 5oo? The guaranteed spot can make or break putting together a deal to get it done. I like it.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Exposure for the sponsors is what pays for the car and the driver, ergo, it is the relevant factor here. NASCAR also letting wrecked cars rejoin the race is being done for a similar purpose - makes sure the rolling billboards are out there rolling, even if they're 59 laps down. No super famous and wealthy racing driver is reaching into their pocket to fish out half a million dollars just to say they raced the Daytona 500 without the possibility of recouping some of that. Even someone like a Cooper MacNeil would want to use it as a business write off, which is also why he or Ben Keating people like them probably won't meet the criteria unless NASCAR gets desperate for entries.
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I agree that sponsorship exposure is important.

On the flip side, the sponsor likely isn't approaching a driver asking them to run the 500. It is much more likely that the driver decides they want to run it and then find a sponsor and team to make it happen.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I agree that sponsorship exposure is important.

On the flip side, the sponsor likely isn't approaching a driver asking them to run the 500. It is much more likely that the driver decides they want to run it and then find a sponsor and team to make it happen.
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Eh, I think that is kind of a chicken or the egg as to which came first.
 
sdj said:
He is a world class underfunded driver, but, he ain't a gonna drive for no money.
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Yes. I just mean he likely wouldn’t even have the money to show up otherwise even if he did want to.
 
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