Blaze
The Midnight Rider
I'm not the one who needs to wake up.
23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement
- Thread starter Blaze
- Start date
NASCAR gave away the use of the homes to the original occupants rent-free. When the leases change hands, the money is paid to the original occupant, not the home owner. NASCAR made no money when they signed the original contracts, and it's doesn't take a cut when they change hands, in a system it designed to not profit it. It has no cars of its own so theoretically gains can't gain the benefits of having a charter. In short, holding the charters brings no value to NASCAR. It's already set the precedent of having no financial involvement in the process.
There's also the question of how to handle charging original charter holders vs. teams who bought charter access and would effectively be paying twice.
This system would have made more sense if NASCAR had set it up so that all sales had to pass through it, with it as the sole buyer and seller. Want to sell and you've found a buyer? NASCAR will buy from you and then resell to your buyer at the agreed price (plus a cut).
I don't know whether the individual charters are listed as assets or liabilities, and whether they're on NASCAR's books, the teams' books, both, or neither. That may be an interesting point in the trial.
I would recommend everyone listens to this as Gluck did a really good job. If I heard correctly if NASCAR issues a 37th charter the existing teams would have first right of refusal. That is why they want to sell one 2311’s charters outright as there is no right of first refusal going this route.
The other thing was the possibility of the teams going on strike & Nascar using drivers from X & trucks.
NASCAR going full IROC & owning all the teams was also interesting. That sounds like an ideal situation for them.
Here we go again. Round and round with the charters have no value to Nascar B.S. once again. Nascar makes the terms of the charters. They are the ones with the money to split up. They are the ones with the final say who gets or doesn't get a charter.
If a contract expires and has to be renegotiated and resigned periodically , how is that permanent and not temporary? Maybe these are rent-controlled charters?
Ones very similar to the one we're seeing!
Explain to me what NASCAR has received from the charter system, please. Who wrote the check and for how much?
In their defense I think that is a worst case thing if MJ was able to persuade all the teams to leave the series Nascar could attempt to fill the field with ownerless cars.
The part that the car haters would have a problem with is the car is saving the teams as much as 40% in their car budget. They are falling all over themselves with the talk of "spec" Xfinity and Trucks lol.
I'm beginning to wish the damn things had never been invented.
The most interesting part of the trial for me will be when a hung jury is declared! This thing could go on longer than it took Franco to die
No I've explained it too many times already. For the hundredth time, their ain't no checks. See post 3604.
The most interesting part of the trial for me will be when a hung jury is declared! This thing could go on longer than it took Franco to die
That brought back memories!
I'm sure you're trying to explain but you're not getting your point across, or I'm too ignorant, or both. How does setting the terms of the charters make money for NASCAR? How does splitting up money that doesn't come from the charters turn a profit? How does having control over who gets them make a dime? Why can't the financial dealings not be split off into an agreement that's separate from the transferrable guaranteed start charter?
I had a couple of semesters of Economics, certainly not enough for me to understand the nuances of sports finance. I agree I'm not understanding a lot of this. I'm asking because I flat-out don't understand how holding the charters makes money for NASCAR, especially when other sports sanctioning bodies make money with retaining ownership of the corresponding contracts.
Seriously, if it's pissing you off, don't feel compelled to try getting it through my skull. I'm probably not going to understand the final result anyway.
Page 91, by the way.
Who cares? This isn't a they shoulda woulda coulda. Your attempts to muddy the water are accomplishing nothing. You didn't write the charters, execute the charters and your numerous circular arguments could be covered in one sentence of I don't like the charters. You aren't going to change any procedures, they didn't ask your opinion on contract law or economics. if any changes come the courts will do that.
The reality of the case is being posted, not they shoulda done this or that and everything would be just wonderful, nobody would be angry.
Greg
2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2011
- Messages
- 25,807
- Points
- 1,033
An eternal hearing would be an incredbile quantum leap for posting. Ths 100 page dream turning into infinity..... to go were few posters will ever go reaching to heavens.... and so forthThe most interesting part of the trial for me will be when a hung jury is declared! This thing could go on longer than it took Franco to die
DIDIT
Old School Fan
Can someone post the odds as to which forum member's post will reach the coveted 100 page status? Surely Vegas is interested in this. I'd be interested in placing a bet.
We are there brother Greg, we have the eternal who's on first, what's on second chorus singing their sweet songs as we circle round the campfire. Come and join us brother Greg.
Those are interesting statements from someone who's still fighting the playoff battle. They'd apply equally well in that context.
I liked them when they were first announced and I thought I understood them. Now, I have to remind myself that it isn't the charters I dislike, it's my not understanding them.
Again, you're under no obligation to respond to me.
I seem to have found many posts in agreement including Drivers and car owners who agree. I don't recall anybody trying to re-write the charters except yourself.
MRM
Team Owner
The charters were created to have the owners' teams actually be worthing something when it's time to get out. Look at Bud Ford, Junior Johnson, and others that had nothing to show for their years of working except for selling equipment for pennies on the dollar.
I don't know NASCAR got involved saying who could and couldn't buy them. It needs to be like pro sports where the other teams vote to approve or disapprove. It should not be up to the league, or in this case, the sanctioning body. Their job is to put on races and promote the sport. They have lost that along the way.
I don't know NASCAR got involved saying who could and couldn't buy them. It needs to be like pro sports where the other teams vote to approve or disapprove. It should not be up to the league, or in this case, the sanctioning body. Their job is to put on races and promote the sport. They have lost that along the way.
Reply from the teams.
You want changes, I want changes, and neither of us is likely to get what we want.
Eh, we'll see. In my case the pressure is mounting from many sides. On yours, there is a judge involved. Something is going to change.
I’m going to zip it as I don’t want to run afoul of anything
I’ve been busy today so, just not going to spend more time trying to explain further. No worries, no blaming others who have differing opinions or ideas. We are all passionate racing fans. At the end of it all, we have NO impact on any of this.
Just promise me, if any of you get picked to be on this future jury, and you just want to shake down NASCAR, please admit that when you are being questioned under oath!
Just promise me, if any of you get picked to be on this future jury, and you just want to shake down NASCAR, please admit that when you are being questioned under oath!
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
and if you get picked, make sure you mention you hate Denny alsoI’ve been busy today so, just not going to spend more time trying to explain further. No worries, no blaming others who have differing opinions or ideas. We are all passionate racing fans. At the end of it all, we have NO impact on any of this.
Just promise me, if any of you get picked to be on this future jury, and you just want to shake down NASCAR, please admit that when you are being questioned under oath!
Revman
Pushing the limits for better.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 16,202
- Points
- 1,033
I will say this about all of the 23XI court stuff....I would imagine that MY Toyota people are hating ever single second of it, and wishing there was a way to separate themselves from it. I cringed when Toyota announced that they were going NASCAR racing. Didn't think that they belonged. Then, I saw how they just wanted to be a part of it. Bill France Jr.'s quote to Lee White...."Ya'll welcome to come. Ya'll welcome to participate. Ya'll welcome to win.....but only by this much (one inch between index finger and thumb" was legendary. I don't give three ****s what the nay sayers will spew, but I can tell you that Toyota came with the highest respect for the sport, and an understanding that there would be detractors. They wanted to make sure that they were good citizens. The **** that is coming out of this situation is 100% the opposite of that. In the culture that is Toyota, you don't say the **** that Denny and Michael have said. Period. You just don't. Respect for people is a core tenant of what Toyota is. What Denny and Michael have said ain't that.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Messages
- 40,212
- Points
- 1,033
I’ve often wondered what prompted NASCAR to include a no antitrust lawsuit clause in its charter agreement document.
Thanks Revman! Completely agree.
And ah HA! You ADMIT you want to gut NASCAR!
I’d only be on the jury if they do a change of venue out of state…but if they do, I will admit under oath, that I consider Denny Hamlin a narcissistic self possessed wrecker of good cars, good drivers and numerous female relationships. He is a cad, a bad influence on the sport, and a dirty driver. It’s no wonder he aligned with his buddy Jordan, who despite being the greatest basketball player of all time, is also among the worst owners in any sporting league bar none. They both have poisoned the well at Toyota, their fellow Toyota teams, and the NASCAR organization. In America, you can’t force a company to do business with people you don’t want to. Your honor, and to you Mr. Kessler, the actions of these slime balls disgusts me to no end. If you feel I’ve exhibited a bit too much bias, I could understand why you’d use a challenge to remove me from this jury. But Mr. Kessler, I am a fair man. If you are as great an attorney as you proport to be, why not see if you can convince me?
That’s what I will say…promise.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
I didn't admit that at all. But you do hate Denny.And ah HA! You ADMIT you want to gut NASCAR!
I’d only be on the jury if they do a change of venue out of state…but if they do, I will admit under oath, that I consider Denny Hamlin a narcissistic self possessed wrecker of good cars, good drivers and numerous female relationships. He is a cad, a bad influence on the sport, and a dirty driver. It’s no wonder he aligned with his buddy Jordan, who despite being the greatest basketball player of all time, is also among the worst owners in any sporting league bar none. They both have poisoned the well at Toyota, their fellow Toyota teams, and the NASCAR organization. In America, you can’t force a company to do business with people you don’t want to. Your honor, and to you Mr. Kessler, the actions of these slime balls disgusts me to no end. If you feel I’ve exhibited a bit too much bias, I could understand why you’d use a challenge to remove me from this jury. But Mr. Kessler, I am a fair man. If you are as great an attorney as you proport to be, why not see if you can convince me?
That’s what I will say…promise.
1) 23xi is a Toyota team because Denny was already driving for them at Gibbs. If Gibbs had still been a GM team, 23xi would be also. Chevy and Ford and corporate cultures were probably never considered when Hamlin and Jordan put the team together; they were going with whoever already had Hamlin under contract. After several years of interaction, Toyota must have known what type of person they were getting with Denny; that doesn't seem to have bothered them.
2) If you don't think similarly worded texts and emails aren't buried in the records of most teams, manufacturers, suppliers, tracks, and everyone else involved in motorsports, congratulations on keeping the reality spots off your rose-colored glasses.
I’ve said many times I despise the man as a driver, and see his narcissism evident in his home and professional life. People who are around him (within the sport) have said he’s a prick. Hate is a strong word, and I try not to hate anyone, especially those I do know. But Hambone is a certified jerk, not just a nice guy wearing the black hat for the show. He has friends so I’m sure he’s not always a POS. He does has a family and I truly wish them well.
But Hamcrap and Jordan are fully committed to their big ego, big money gambit. Full air speed ahead, checkers or wreckers. The carnage doesn’t matter.