23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Hawaii808 said:
oh the leaks before the court date will be juicy…this is only round one
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These text chains are way beyond "juicy" in my opinion. If I'm a juror trying to decide if Nascar is adopting non-competitive actions in order to maintain a monopoly, these texts are well into "smoking gun" territory.

I also believe that Nascar killed off the wildly successful Eldora truck race as retaliation against Tony Stewart for hatching the SRX series. I don't know if that's permitted in this lawsuit by statute of limitations, or if the plaintiffs have any documents about it. But in my opinion, it is another smoking gun of anti-competitive behavior.
 
LewTheShoe said:
These text chains are way beyond "juicy" in my opinion. If I'm a juror trying to decide if Nascar is adopting non-competitive actions in order to maintain a monopoly, these texts are well into "smoking gun" territory.

I also believe that Nascar killed off the wildly successful Eldora truck race as retaliation against Tony Stewart for hatching the SRX series. I don't know if that's permitted in this lawsuit by statute of limitations, or if the plaintiffs have any documents about it. But in my opinion, it is another smoking gun of anti-competitive behavior.
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If I remember correctly, reports at the time indicated that Eldora Trucks fell apart because NASCAR chose Dirt Bristol over Eldora for the Cup dirt experiment, and Stewart was unhappy. Still, these messages reveal a level of spite for those involved with SRX that of course would explain why they weren't keen on rewarding Stewart despite Eldora's success at the time.

Phelps viewed SRX as a LIV level threat? Wow. I don't want to be naive. This is how big business behaves. They seek to squash any remote threat to their domination of market share. It is the nature of capitalism, which I do not oppose. It is also why antitrust protections are essential to maintain a legitimately competitive business environment. Those who scoff at antitrust and pretend that monopolistic practices are nothing to worry about are quite misled IMO.
 
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Man, this all sounds so petty on NASCAR's part, especially the whining about drivers running SRX on CBS. Sure, that's an issue but we'll promote Hell out of Larson in an IndyCar on ABC, including having our partners discuss it during their coverage of our races.

While I still don't think the lawsuit is actually about starting another / replacement series, it looks like Justin Marks would be a great organizer (commissioner?).
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Man, this all sounds so petty on NASCAR's part, especially the whining about drivers running SRX on CBS. Sure, that's an issue but we'll promote Hell out of Larson in an IndyCar on ABC, including having our partners discuss it during their coverage of our races.

While I still don't think the lawsuit is actually about starting another / replacement series, it looks like Justin Marks would be a great organizer (commissioner?).
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Speaking of Larson there, no doubts now they were extremely petty about him being late to 24 Coke 600 because he chose to stay at Indy. Managerial Boobs that can’t see the bigger picture.
 
It might be too late at this point for NASCAR. They might seriously let themselves get dismantled because they're too stubborn and entitled to believe they should have had to settle. It's as though they've decided that since they might not survive the next media deal they don't care and are willing to lose their assets. Mind-blowing decision but makes sense in the modern day purely because so many people have lost their goddamned minds or have the intellectual aptitude of children.
 
I'm sorry I guess I miss the smoking gun here. What exactly did they do wrong? I mean there's nothing illegal or wrong about getting upset that your stars are racing in other series.

Did they actually do anything to hurt SRX?
 
virtualbalboa said:
It might be too late at this point for NASCAR. They might seriously let themselves get dismantled because they're too stubborn and entitled to believe they should have had to settle. It's as though they've decided that since they might not survive the next media deal they don't care and are willing to lose their assets. Mind-blowing decision but makes sense in the modern day purely because so many people have lost their goddamned minds or have the intellectual aptitude of children.
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Top Nascar brass would let it burn down to the ground, and still try to rule over the ashes.
 
Been a long time since I've posted here but had to comment on Phelps being a total out of touch maroon!

If he isn't fired by the end of the week, Nascar has big problems heading it's way!
Talk about being totally incompetant!

Any leader of anything that calls their employees or teammates names is completely clueless on how to lead. Your teammates and employees are a reflection of your leadership.

SRX only came about because the fans and drivers were not being listened to. Midweek races, star power drivers, dirt track, heat races.
Instead we have no midweek races, with 18 year olds driving daddy's car, and stage racing. Because Eldora was not owned by Nascar. So they tried dirt racing at Bristol which was a total disaster.

I also want to know who gave the go ahead on the decision that showed nascar would accept a 15% drop in viewership and think thats good for the sport!!! That guy should be fired too. Im OK with bringing in new broadcasters and Amazon blew it out of the water, but giving up 15% of your viewership is a total nightmare and says Nascar is only chasing money! Same as it has been for the past decade or two I guess.

I really hope Phelps is fired ASAP. What a dope!
 
LouieLouie said:
Been a long time since I've posted here but had to comment on Phelps being a total out of touch maroon!

If he isn't fired by the end of the week, Nascar has big problems heading it's way!
Talk about being totally incompetant!

Any leader of anything that calls their employees or teammates names is completely clueless on how to lead. Your teammates and employees are a reflection of your leadership.

SRX only came about because the fans and drivers were not being listened to. Midweek races, star power drivers, dirt track, heat races.
Instead we have no midweek races, with 18 year olds driving daddy's car, and stage racing. Because Eldora was not owned by Nascar. So they tried dirt racing at Bristol which was a total disaster.

I also want to know who gave the go ahead on the decision that showed nascar would accept a 15% drop in viewership and think thats good for the sport!!! That guy should be fired too. Im OK with bringing in new broadcasters and Amazon blew it out of the water, but giving up 15% of your viewership is a total nightmare and says Nascar is only chasing money! Same as it has been for the past decade or two I guess.

I really hope Phelps is fired ASAP. What a dope!
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SRX was never intended to be about the competition, it was always about the entertainment.

They had the "fun flag" and I think on more than one occasion they let a driver change cars mid race
 
wi_racefan said:
SRX was never intended to be about the competition, it was always about the entertainment.

They had the "fun flag" and I think on more than one occasion they let a driver change cars mid race
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Exactly. The racing was fun and interesting/entertaining. All things Nascar currently lacks, which is why that idiot Phelps saw it as competition and wanting to "knife" it instead of fixing the issues with his own product!
 
I guess I still don't get it. These messages were intended to be private conversations. Saying something privately isn't illegal.

I guarantee everyone, including everyone here, has said things very similar to this privately. Text and email make things even worse. There's no way to just expression.
 
I guess some of you have never been involved in a business that has competitors. If so, what kind of banter was there about them, or about some of their people, or even about some of your own people? Most of it is just whining, bitching, “what if’s” & gripe sessions. Agree with @wi_racefan, this doesn’t set any condition of illegality that is relative to this case…and as stated earlier, it is not admissible in the trial anyway! Who is leaking this? We all know. It’s an effort to taint and poison the well of possible jurors ahead of trial.

Phelps was STUPID to put this stuff into text messages. I always instructed our sales reps and managers to NEVER communicate with customers, or other employees, any feelings, frustrations or worse. It’s a poor way to convey complex messages, and yes, it can possibly be used in litigation. Does this threaten Phelps status within NASCAR and the trust factor with key teams? Very possibly.

Everyone conveniently forgetting the hideous jabber filled with expletives we saw months ago from Jordan, Hamcrap and company? I’m sure there’s more of that to come.
 
From the article:

This has to be viewed through the context of the race teams negotiating with NASCAR over the charter extension negotiation in the sense that the Race Team Alliance were simultaneously exploring best ways to leverage their intellectual properties while also trying to leverage a better deal from the Sanctioning Body.
Marshall, who oversees the joint business of the teams that compete in the Cup Series, even pondered that in an email with those he was exploring the idea with in RTA founder Rob Kaufman, Trackhouse co-owner Justin Marks and then RFK Racing president Steve Newmark.
"What is everyone's take on whether we gain leverage by doing this still? If there are productive conversations happening with NASCAR, does pursuing this still make sense to the (Team Negotiating Committee)?"
And Kaufman really wanted to pursue it.
"Guys, my 2cts...Are we serious or not? Justin (Marks) is 100% spot on. We think that merely 'feigning' a move will get Uncle Jim (France) to change the deal, we are kidding ourselves. I have spoken to 5 of the senior NASCAR team principals in the past week and they all say one thing -- they not budge unless they feel they have to concede something material to save the TV deal. NASCAR believes the teams will fold.
"Regardless of the position of NASCAR, I strongly believe the Teams SHOULD do an exhibition race. We negotiated hard to get this right, and it is 100% within the current charters. ... This is doable. Even if things were going right on the Daytona discussions, it's a vert strong brand building item, as well as it should make money. Lots of potential if done right. Don't squander this opportunity."
Kaufman, who was the former co-owner of Michael Waltrip Racing, added 'are we playing to win, or just playing' in his pitch to the RTA's TNC leaders.

NOW…does this demonstrate any contractual violation in and of itself? No. It does demonstrate that the cabal was real and developing a competing series (à la LIV Golf), potentially using their own NASCAR sanctioned equipment (although that is unclear from this small batch of data). Perhaps it becomes clearer why NASCAR, after two years of negotiations and an existential threat looming from the RTA, decided to lay out their final offer with a deadline. Yes the TV deal was at stake, so it was put up of shut up.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm sorry I guess I miss the smoking gun here. What exactly did they do wrong? I mean there's nothing illegal or wrong about getting upset that your stars are racing in other series.

Did they actually do anything to hurt SRX?
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In post 4399, Pockrass quotes a Phelps text as saying "Need to put a knife in this trash series (SRX)". I'm not an antitrust lawyer but that smells like cordite to my untrained nose. We'll see if a jury thinks so.
 
Conover said:
I guess some of you have never been involved in a business that has competitors. If so, what kind of banter was there about them, or about some of their people, or even about some of your own people? Most of it is just whining, bitching, “what if’s” & gripe sessions. Agree with @wi_racefan, this doesn’t set any condition of illegality that is relative to this case…and as stated earlier, it is not admissible in the trial anyway! Who is leaking this? We all know. It’s an effort to taint and poison the well of possible jurors ahead of trial.

Phelps was STUPID to put this stuff into text messages. I always instructed our sales reps and managers to NEVER communicate with customers, or other employees, any feelings, frustrations or worse. It’s a poor way to convey complex messages, and yes, it can possibly be used in litigation. Does this threaten Phelps status within NASCAR and the trust factor with key teams? Very possibly.

Everyone conveniently forgetting the hideous jabber filled with expletives we saw months ago from Jordan, Hamcrap and company? I’m sure there’s more of that to come.
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I have business competition, im not dumb enough to have my feelings about them in text. I also pay no mind to them because I’m busy myself. From the jump, they were spooked about SRX it seems like. I also don’t think it’s professional for him to classify a fellow owner as a “dumb red neck” say what you want, but that dumb red neck built what he has. Which is more than I can say about current nascar honchos. In my line of work, Do we talk $hit about customers, fellow franchises, competitors and whatever else in our industry sure guilty as charged. But there’s so much vitriol behind this, it’s kind of hard to see that’s not how a leader of a sport and industry on a much grander scale should act. Them being angry to the point they needed to get it off their chests because one of “THEIR” drivers ran which let’s be honest was an inferior series is really head scratching to me. At no point was srx a threat, I don’t even think it could have become one unless they secured some sweet outside cash (Saudi investment?).Their attitudes on certain issues reek of monopolistic overtones to be frank.
 
Conover said:
NOW…does this demonstrate any contractual violation in and of itself? No. It does demonstrate that the cabal was real and developing a competing series (à la LIV Golf), potentially using their own NASCAR sanctioned equipment (although that is unclear from this small batch of data). Perhaps it becomes clearer why NASCAR, after two years of negotiations and an existential threat looming from the RTA, decided to lay out their final offer with a deadline. Yes the TV deal was at stake, so it was put up of shut up.
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The current TV deal running from 2025-2031 was finalized in November 2023. The TV deal was not at stake during the charter negotiations.

Isolated exhibition events are not "existential threats". The wacky senior tour short track promotion SRX was not an existential threat. The only businesses that would view such indirect presences in their periphery as existential threats to be "knifed" and "schemed" out of existence are monopolies that seek absolute control over an industry.

Your comments about how idiotic it was for these clowns to put such banter into text messages were on point. The Steves have been unfit for their jobs for at least a decade.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
One exhibition race isn't developing another series. This isn't LIV golf, it's one of those made-for-TV skins game with Tiger, Rory, and a couple of quarterbacks.
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Upon reading the exhibit in detail, I retract this post.

The goal of this exercise has been to create a form of motorsports entertainment that would be exciting and interesting for the country of Oman.
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That still doesn't sound like a threat to US stock car racing. No mention of using NASCAR's Cup IP.
 
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